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Dev blog: Coming to EVE Online in the Phoebe release on November 4th

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Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#241 - 2014-10-13 23:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
CCP Darwin wrote:
To Indahmawar Fazmarai: Thanks for posting the images. I'll pass along the feedback with those pictures as illustrations. It does make a big difference to be able to point to an image when discussing these matters, so there's no ambiguity about what you're saying.


It would give you a lot more freedom if, instead of being light-on-whatever, the UI elements had either a black shadow and white features or a white shadow and black features (user selectable?). That way, there's guaranteed to be a very high contrast around the module whether you're in The Blockade in Amarr space or in some dark, empty system in deep null sec.

I know that's not your team, but it would be something that the responsible team (Pirate Unicorns?) could do that would give the art department a lot more leeway with color and light.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Shintav
State War Academy
Caldari State
#242 - 2014-10-13 23:12:32 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
CCP Seagull, Executive Producer of EVE Online, comes with a new exciting dev blog giving you an overview of all the features coming to you with the Phoebe release on November 4th.

Long distance travel changes, an unlimited skill queue, new invention and reverse engineering, graphical updates, new and rebalanced exploration rewards ... there is something exciting for everyone!

Check out CCP Seagull's latest blog Coming to EVE Online in the Phoebe release on November 4th!



So I have never posted to this but felt that something needed to be said to the community as a whole about exploration. I am sure that there isn't an explorer out there that would disagree with the loot changes to data sites. Indeed, one need only look at the common explorer load-outs to see that people, in large, just are not interested in data sites. (at least most of the explorer kill-mails I seen seem to lack a hacking module)

That said, there is another serious problem with Expiration as I see it. That is the ability to use Cargo Scanners on Hacking containers. IT seems that anymore, most sites that I scan down are mostly empty by the time I find them. I am not entirely up to date on the re-spawn mechanic, but I suspect this hurts everybody as a whole to have a bunch of half hacked sites sitting around until server reset.

From an immersion perspective, it makes sense that these containers would be shielded in some way. IT would go a long way toward saving everybody a lot of grief to simply disallow the use of cargo scanners on hacking/artifact sites.
Shamus en Divalone
The Clandestine Forge
#243 - 2014-10-14 07:21:06 UTC
Shintav wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
CCP Seagull, Executive Producer of EVE Online, comes with a new exciting dev blog giving you an overview of all the features coming to you with the Phoebe release on November 4th.

Long distance travel changes, an unlimited skill queue, new invention and reverse engineering, graphical updates, new and rebalanced exploration rewards ... there is something exciting for everyone!

Check out CCP Seagull's latest blog Coming to EVE Online in the Phoebe release on November 4th!



So I have never posted to this but felt that something needed to be said to the community as a whole about exploration. I am sure that there isn't an explorer out there that would disagree with the loot changes to data sites. Indeed, one need only look at the common explorer load-outs to see that people, in large, just are not interested in data sites. (at least most of the explorer kill-mails I seen seem to lack a hacking module)

That said, there is another serious problem with Expiration as I see it. That is the ability to use Cargo Scanners on Hacking containers. IT seems that anymore, most sites that I scan down are mostly empty by the time I find them. I am not entirely up to date on the re-spawn mechanic, but I suspect this hurts everybody as a whole to have a bunch of half hacked sites sitting around until server reset.

From an immersion perspective, it makes sense that these containers would be shielded in some way. IT would go a long way toward saving everybody a lot of grief to simply disallow the use of cargo scanners on hacking/artifact sites.



I agree, you shouldn't be able to see a loot you have not hacked yet, just doesn't make sense on an immersive level at all.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#244 - 2014-10-14 08:00:05 UTC
Shamus en Divalone wrote:

I agree, you shouldn't be able to see a loot you have not hacked yet, just doesn't make sense on an immersive level at all.

If you can scan the fittings & cargo of an intact ship, makes perfect sense to me.
A better solution would be to take the ghost site mechanic of a hidden timer and implement it, as soon as a site is interacted with it starts to decay. Non explosively, but that way if you are finding empty sites you know someone is active in the area. Or your RNG is terrible.
Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
#245 - 2014-10-14 08:12:10 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
To Indahmawar Fazmarai: Thanks for posting the images. I'll pass along the feedback with those pictures as illustrations. It does make a big difference to be able to point to an image when discussing these matters, so there's no ambiguity about what you're saying.

Please note that these pictures aren't "worst case" - it can get even worse. Maybe you want to create an extra topic where we can spam you with screenshots without crashing this thread?

My "workaround" has been:
Run Missions/Anomalies/Combatsites while showing the solar system mapAttention
There are days I don't see anything else.
That's sad because the first time I undocked I was like "Wow! Beautyfull!" and made dozens of screenshots.

I really wish I could turn on something like sunglasses to darken 20% of the top and bottom of my screen (behind the layer with modules/targets)... maybe fading from 75% darker to normal.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#246 - 2014-10-14 10:10:09 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Samsara Toldya wrote:
Please note that these pictures aren't "worst case" - it can get even worse. Maybe you want to create an extra topic where we can spam you with screenshots without crashing this thread?


The images in that post were more than enough to illustrate the problem.

Those images and the associated comments are in the hands of the user experience team, and they're looking into how to address the issues raised.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#247 - 2014-10-14 10:29:59 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
It should be obvious at this point that players who have an opinion about brighter nebulas oppose them, and some would rather like a darker background for their interface. Being a bittervet, I know that the change will go through, as with everything the Art Deparment gets OK'ed, and players/customers be damned, but at least we said what we oppose and why, so now the ball is on CCP.

It just is tiresome that each time some bloody artist comes up with some bright idea, CCP can't say "no hell no, that would be bad for our customers" and we're reduced to helplessly complain about CCP's artwork hurting our eyes and making our game more difficult to play without an opt-out.

It is so, so tiresome... Cry


Bad interactions between gameplay/UI and art are a concern, and the graphics QA team do look at all art changes with this in mind. However, they're not going to catch everything you might encounter in-game, because not everyone uses their UI the same way, and so it really does help if you report any serious frustrations you encounter in this area.

The best way to do this reporting is through the Bug Reporting tool, which you can get to by hitting F12 and clicking on the button there.

The best bug reports on this type of issue illustrate the problem with a screenshot, because you may be encountering specific combinations of artwork and UI arrangement that don't occur to the QA analyst even after reading your report. Be as specific and visual as possible -- saying "The new nebulas suck because I can't see UI element" may not be enough information to identify exactly what you're experiencing. Also, it's possible that new graphics or the UI render differently on your machine from others, so a picture can help identify that.

As far as the change to make nebulas brighter: That wasn't simply a change for the look of open space. Nebula brightness also interacts with in-game lighting, and various changes to ship lighting and rendering in our engine benefit from the change as well. If there were unanticipated impacts on gameplay, though, we'd like to hear about it through the bug report system.

I personally am interested in improving our response to feedback on this type of issue, so please keep offering the feedback, here for the minor irritations and in bug reports for the major roadblocks.


But... it's not a bug. It's just that the nebulae are too bright and wash out the interface:

Image 1

Sun flare and nebula; status bars for targets and their name are unreadable.

Image 2

Sun flare and nebula; H/A/S arches barely readable, status of module cycle can't be seen

Image 3

No flare, only the nebula; status bars for targets can be seen with difficulty, target names are barely readable.

Image 4

No flare, only the nebula; H/A/S aches readable, status of module cycle barely can be seen

And this is just the nebula at The Forge, which is not a specially bright one, compared to Amarran space.


I have absolutely no difficulties whatsoever reading the interface in those images, everything is clear.

The only issue I agree with is that the green glow around active modules is barely visible, however this is not a problem with the nebula brightness, as it is barely visible on almost all backgrounds.

Jinn Aideron
#248 - 2014-10-14 10:35:24 UTC
I share the above concerns about interface legibility.

Even in current state of game, I regularly wish there was a darkening tactical overlay, shades, as the current amplifies this problem.

Stealth deletes are bad.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#249 - 2014-10-14 10:41:09 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Samsara Toldya wrote:
[quote=CCP Darwin]Please note that these pictures aren't "worst case" - it can get even worse. Maybe you want to create an extra topic where we can spam you with screenshots without crashing this thread?


The images in that post were more than enough to illustrate the problem.

Those images and the associated comments are in the hands of the user experience team, and they're looking into how to address the issues raised.

There was talk earlier on the forums of both a gamma change option and the fact that that last graphic engine changes would allow black and white flips in the engine based on back ground color. Not sure if that the implementation links are that easy but the possibility was brought up. I'll search for the quote if you need it.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Oraac Ensor
#250 - 2014-10-14 11:30:45 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Samsara Toldya wrote:
[quote=CCP Darwin]Please note that these pictures aren't "worst case" - it can get even worse. Maybe you want to create an extra topic where we can spam you with screenshots without crashing this thread?


The images in that post were more than enough to illustrate the problem.

Those images and the associated comments are in the hands of the user experience team, and they're looking into how to address the issues raised.

Er, "looking into"?????

Just get rid of the bright nebulae. QED.
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#251 - 2014-10-14 11:57:59 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:

Er, "looking into"?????

Just get rid of the bright nebulae. QED.


Or they could just use an outline font like every other UI in the history of UI's that needs to deal with this problem.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#252 - 2014-10-14 13:11:26 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Er, "looking into"?????


That language means that I am not in a position to announce any changes to the game to fix this, nor can I say in what timeframe there might be such changes.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#253 - 2014-10-14 13:19:55 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:


I have absolutely no difficulties whatsoever reading the interface in those images, everything is clear.

The only issue I agree with is that the green glow around active modules is barely visible, however this is not a problem with the nebula brightness, as it is barely visible on almost all backgrounds.



Please do keep in mind that your mileage may vary greatly on this issue; displays will differ in quality, brightness, and chroma from player to player, compounded by the fact that color acuity (the ability of the eye to distinguish between colors) also varies between players, and a small but significant portion of the population has genetically degraded color acuity (colorblindness).

CCP: Thank you for taking a look at the readability of interface elements in bright environments.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#254 - 2014-10-14 15:16:05 UTC
Thank you, CCP Darwin.
Invisusira
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#255 - 2014-10-14 16:27:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Invisusira
CCP karkur wrote:
Oh Takashawa wrote:
Can the unlimited skill queue be set to include skills that you can't yet inject due to prereqs?
Perhaps at some point, but not in Phoebe Smile

This is already a pretty big annoyance; unlimited queues only make the problem worse (some may be so bold as to suggest that unlimited queues are in fact entirely pointless without it). Please consider fixing this ASAP so I don't have to stop playing Destiny long enough to log in anymore.

EVE Music
Dwissi
Miners Delight Reborn
#256 - 2014-10-14 16:29:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Dwissi
Oh me getting very excited - reading the lore might reveal fancy stuff to come that hasnt been announced yet :D

I've seen implants in secure containers, changing hands between people whose pupils contract and expand like heartbeats. I've seen secured transmissions of brand-new blueprints for vessels that are not ever going to be flown by empire officers. There've even been hauls of components that I'm damn sure will be used to build something meant to go much, much faster than a spaceship.

If there is any truth in that and combined with that collection of sleeper tech lately - maybe we get new ships as well?

Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins

Before someone complains again: grr everyone

Greed is the death of loyalty
Scarlet Bear
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2014-10-14 18:10:49 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
CCP Seagull, Executive Producer of EVE Online, comes with a new exciting dev blog giving you an overview of all the features coming to you with the Phoebe release on November 4th.

Long distance travel changes, an unlimited skill queue, new invention and reverse engineering, graphical updates, new and rebalanced exploration rewards ... there is something exciting for everyone!

Check out CCP Seagull's latest blog Coming to EVE Online in the Phoebe release on November 4th!


good work ccp



Destructible stations
Shasz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#258 - 2014-10-14 18:57:01 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Samsara Toldya wrote:
Please note that these pictures aren't "worst case" - it can get even worse. Maybe you want to create an extra topic where we can spam you with screenshots without crashing this thread?


The images in that post were more than enough to illustrate the problem.

Those images and the associated comments are in the hands of the user experience team, and they're looking into how to address the issues raised.


Wow, those images are tame compared to what I deal with in Kor-Azor.

Thanks for taking this to the team for a second look - brighter nebulae would be a bad thing IMO.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#259 - 2014-10-14 19:08:45 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Samsara Toldya wrote:
Please note that these pictures aren't "worst case" - it can get even worse. Maybe you want to create an extra topic where we can spam you with screenshots without crashing this thread?


The images in that post were more than enough to illustrate the problem.

Those images and the associated comments are in the hands of the user experience team, and they're looking into how to address the issues raised.


Thank you for looking into this issue, CCP Darwin. Specially on a sunday, heh. Bear
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#260 - 2014-10-14 20:34:14 UTC
unlimited skill queueing ! fantastic ! that means that when I start my 15 year prison sentence for the libor scam and all of those PPI miss selling scams that ive been instrumental in over the last few years will make things soooo much more worthwhile ! ...

ps you mofo`s can`t have me stuff !... its all stashed in the caymans Bear

gives my time to plot my next dastardly deed from the comfort of my open prison cell ...errm I mean hotel !! courtesy of her madge Pirate