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Dev blog: Coming to EVE Online in the Phoebe release on November 4th

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Author
Velarra
#221 - 2014-10-12 18:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Velarra
One long standing issue with Eve has been that it is TOO BRIGHT. Regardless of graphics card, monitor or setting.

The ability to alter the gamma, brightness and contrast ~in the game preferences~ would be perfect.

Forcing a fixed increase in brightness that can't be altered by the client would be a mistake.

Which equally triggers the question, why on earth is the CCP art department so consistently fixated on forcing its aesthetic sensibilities on the player-base rather than giving players the option to make changes to such basic things such as lighting? Or dare it be brought up again, - the forced camera rotation issue of a year or so ago (that seems finally addressed/fixed).
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#222 - 2014-10-12 20:43:19 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:

Bad interactions between gameplay/UI and art are a concern, and the graphics QA team do look at all art changes with this in mind. However, they're not going to catch everything you might encounter in-game, because not everyone uses their UI the same way, and so it really does help if you report any serious frustrations you encounter in this area.

Be as specific and visual as possible -- saying "The new nebulas suck because I can't see UI element" may not be enough information to identify exactly what you're experiencing. Also, it's possible that new graphics or the UI render differently on your machine from others, so a picture can help identify that.

This is exactly why changes to the background graphics, esp. lighting, should be previewed by the UI team, not a graphics QA team.

A graphics QA team is mostly looking for broken graphics - bad geometry, buggy shaders, missing texture maps, etc. They tweak their graphics cards and monitors accordingly and don't always test against a range of standard settings on different machines.

The UI team is the group which should be concerned that the UI elements stand out easily, against any background graphics. They should also be ensuring that their UI design choices will always be workable, on a variety of standard graphics card and monitor settings (obviously not in cases where someone tweaks the gamma to 0.1 or 2.0). For example, confirming that the same font style/size is readable on laptop displays as well as on larger desktop monitors.

Also, stating that "'The new nebulas wash out UI element' may not be enough information for a QA analyst" only proves that they are the wrong people to be previewing the effects of background graphics changes on the UI. This information should indeed be sufficient for any member of an UI team to investigate the situation.
Regnag Leppod
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#223 - 2014-10-12 20:49:36 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:

This is exactly why changes to the background graphics, esp. lighting, should be previewed by the UI team, not a graphics QA team.


Exactly.

While I applaud many of the other changes, making any sort of space graphics brighter is just generally a bad idea in my opinion. For example, the UI team should be required to run The Blockade (level 4, Sansha) a dozen times or so.
That and have them use a short range (blaster, pulse laser, etc) ship on the Sansha side of the first room in Worlds Collide.

Sure, lots of mission runners have worked their way around these glaring problems, but they are a perfect example of how some things in this game are well beyond "too bright" for the UI to be readable.
Wizzard117
Wizzard117 Corporation
#224 - 2014-10-12 21:46:25 UTC
I might have missed something but still some questions

1. Will we see additional modules "tiericide" rebalance this patch?
2. There were signs of some new technology related to current "collect sleeper loot" event. Will we gain something related to this new technology this patch?
Dominique Vasilkovsky
#225 - 2014-10-12 22:06:02 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Oh Takashawa wrote:
Can the unlimited skill queue be set to include skills that you can't yet inject due to prereqs?
Perhaps at some point, but not in Phoebe Smile

Please let us queue up the yearly neural remaps while at it.

I can't wait to only have to log in once every few years to check the skill progress.
Hicksimus
Torgue
#226 - 2014-10-12 23:56:30 UTC
Wizzard117 wrote:
I might have missed something but still some questions


2. There were signs of some new technology related to current "collect sleeper loot" event. Will we gain something related to this new technology this patch?



Who says you guys weren't scammed by NPCs?

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#227 - 2014-10-13 00:13:12 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Quote:
How about the ability to tune the gamma of nebulae during their rendering at the client?

Quote:
The ability to alter the gamma, brightness and contrast ~in the game preferences~ would be perfect.


This feedback has been around for a while and believe me, it's been heard. I can't say when an actual feature might come out of it.

Quote:
Which equally triggers the question, why on earth is the CCP art department so consistently fixated on forcing its aesthetic sensibilities on the player-base rather than giving players the option to make changes to such basic things such as lighting?


Almost every computer game in existence is art directed by its developers. However, that doesn't preclude features like a gamma slider being added. Better than that, though, would be a design that offers better UI readability in the first place. I've heard your feedback on this and I will make sure others on the EVE team hear about it as well.

Quote:
A graphics QA team is mostly looking for broken graphics - bad geometry, buggy shaders, missing texture maps, etc. They tweak their graphics cards and monitors accordingly and don't always test against a range of standard settings on different machines.


Our graphics QA team concern themselves with a broader range of issues than that, and they do in fact test on a range of machines. On usability-related issues, they don't have the final say, but they have a strong voice and player feedback makes a difference.

To Indahmawar Fazmarai: Thanks for posting the images. I'll pass along the feedback with those pictures as illustrations. It does make a big difference to be able to point to an image when discussing these matters, so there's no ambiguity about what you're saying.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

test tube bunny
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#228 - 2014-10-13 00:29:10 UTC
I hope the Chinese Serenity server is getting the same changes. God knows they sure as hell need smaller coalitions!

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/VeriteChina/Cinfluence.png


It would be hypocritical to say this will fix our server and not theirs.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#229 - 2014-10-13 01:43:42 UTC
test tube bunny wrote:
I hope the Chinese Serenity server is getting the same changes. God knows they sure as hell need smaller coalitions!

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/VeriteChina/Cinfluence.png


It would be hypocritical to say this will fix our server and not theirs.

Who really gives a **** about Serenity besides CCP and Chinese EVE players?
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#230 - 2014-10-13 02:08:53 UTC
Adding my signature to "The nebula are too bright!"

Or perhaps it's "The text it too light!"

Really I think there should be bright and dark areas of space. I think it spices things up and adds some variety to the game. What others are saying is spot on though.

Anything with white text/lines/status symbols should have like a black glow/outline to it to you can read it no matter what is in the background.

https://i.imgur.com/Z6NP8zV.png

That, I think, would solve the problem of not being able to read things. Granted some people may still hate the brightness, but that's a personal preference vs a bug/problem with the game.

Also, I don't know if the gas clouds are counted as part of the nebula (I don't think they are being discussed here) but OH MY F-@!# GOD you want to talk about bright? THOSE are the things that need to be toned down.
hinata's cool anime
Chronos SEVEN
#231 - 2014-10-13 04:42:12 UTC
hi probaley not the right place for this I think it could be nice/good to have the skill queue so that you can inject skills that you cant trane yet and maybe just have it so you can put it in order if you want to trane the skills you kind of cant trane yet if this isint in the right place could someone post it there for me plz and thanks if you do all so I don't realy like forums I think it would be nice if you could just post iders to ccp in game prehapps
Miriya Zakalwe
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#232 - 2014-10-13 06:01:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Miriya Zakalwe
Seriously asking, why not provide an option to disable the nebula entirely?

The in-game nebulae are, forgive me for saying this, nice looking but dumb from a realism standpoint (I know, I know, the realism ship sailed during game conception of course, but still).

Real nebulae to not look like that. The images you see of real nebula that *do* look like that are long-exposure shots (sometimes hours) done to bring out the fine details. Real nebulae would be faint smudgy things even from nearby them.

They would actually be invisible from the inside. Google "law of conservation of surface brightness."
Oraac Ensor
#233 - 2014-10-13 13:22:03 UTC
Aside from the UI issues my main gripe about bright nebulae is their affect on immersion.

I doubt that I am the only one who is here as a sci-fi fan who likes flying internet spaceships rather than a gamer in the broader sense. As such, I like the environment to represent what I would expect deep space to look like in reality.

While there are undeniably parts of the universe that appear brightly luminous, either to the naked eye or under certain viewing conditions, it is my understanding that these are almost invariably regions of intense cosmic activity, such as areas where new stars are being formed or where there has been a recent (in the astronomical sense) cataclysmic event. As such they would be highly unlikely to contain mature solar systems like those of New Eden.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#234 - 2014-10-13 14:09:46 UTC
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
Real nebulae to not look like that.


My academic background is in physics, specializing in astronomy, so I sympathize with your point of view, but I can say based on my experience in the entertainment business that such an argument will never convince an art director.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Oraac Ensor
#235 - 2014-10-13 14:12:55 UTC
Also:

Wot? Still no new Dominix model?
Miriya Zakalwe
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#236 - 2014-10-13 14:39:07 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
Real nebulae to not look like that.


My academic background is in physics, specializing in astronomy, so I sympathize with your point of view, but I can say based on my experience in the entertainment business that such an argument will never convince an art director.


Oh, no argument of course. I'm just saying that an option to disable them would be nice; I found a while back that I subconsciously seek out systems with low nebulosity to spend time in, because the nebulae are irritating when too bright.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
#237 - 2014-10-13 18:04:27 UTC
Actually, I could deal with the bright - but adjustment would be great for eve - but there is also the PC's own graphical adj... which I have been able to work with for EVE.

My only really issue with bright background is that the standard "white" and the selected "Yellow" are too similar on the OV... I would much reather have my selected object in that list be a green or something contrasting to the main text... that would be very helpful...

OR!... sudden idea!... how about a color selector for the text like we have for broadcasts? - maybe? maybe? perhaps?... yes? - would be good... I feel it in the forums, as though a great many posters will suddenly like this concept.
Nlex
Domini Canium
#238 - 2014-10-13 20:02:02 UTC
Infinite skill queue? Now I need not log in at all!
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
Clockwork Pineapple
#239 - 2014-10-13 22:16:23 UTC
Velarra wrote:
Which equally triggers the question, why on earth is the CCP art department so consistently fixated on forcing its aesthetic sensibilities on the player-base

I challenge you to find a well-recieved game in the last 20 years that doesn't do this.
Alexiel Fireborn
Perkone
Caldari State
#240 - 2014-10-13 23:07:32 UTC
I am always wondering why there isnt Relic sites in Drone region, so will be nice to put some in, and those annoying useless data site there too need improvement ...