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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5181 - 2014-10-03 10:10:42 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Jumping back to origin should give the same amount of fatigue.
Those changes are good.
Now those big blobs will have to think twice what moons they want to hold.
Unless they want pump their towers every 2 days in scimitars.



The conceptual changes are good. But they need to adjsut a lot of things. Like makign JD calibrationin somethign useful. And blackops cannto be penalized so much. They are not strategical resources that DEPLOY to a region. They are tactical weapons for small fast roams/attacks. They need soemthing like 50-60% of the penalties effect only. So they can still try some 2-3 targets in a typical play session of these small gangs.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Jethro Winchester
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5182 - 2014-10-03 10:11:10 UTC
FU 2 wrote:
I can foresee Jita covered in supercaps :D


Don't forget that Snuff Box, Shadow Cartel, etc, etc will be camping every lowsec entry point with supers, titans, and insta-locking Loki's since nobody will be able to hotdrop them.
Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5183 - 2014-10-03 10:11:41 UTC
The Jumprange of JF must be 5LY otherwise JF's will be used for deployment.

Eve will adapt to these changes, dont worry.


Also if ppl posted as much in this thread;

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194625&find=unread

We might actually have some descent posses by now.
Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5184 - 2014-10-03 10:12:51 UTC
Jethro Winchester wrote:
FU 2 wrote:
I can foresee Jita covered in supercaps :D


Don't forget that Snuff Box, Shadow Cartel, etc, etc will be camping every lowsec entry point with supers, titans, and insta-locking Loki's since nobody will be able to hotdrop them.



So will N3 pl and Goons. So go rent and get blue standing.
Anthar Thebess
#5185 - 2014-10-03 10:13:35 UTC
CCP Greyscale

Can we get new moon seed?
Im not talking about new system that will make moon mining dynamic.
But something that will seed new r32 / r16 / r8 moons across each regions, so in each region we find at least 3 moons of each r32/ r16 and r8 type.


This also includes technetium.

Even with reactions , not all production will be possible.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#5186 - 2014-10-03 10:14:19 UTC
So, playing with the math a little, .1 fatigue per minute reduction seems very low. Personally I think that ~.25 is right, as this means that until you hit the very edge of range, you can jump into and out of a fight 1 jump away, and be cooled back off to do it again the next day. This also reduces the insanely long multi-year trips, making them instead, multi-month trips, which still force careful deployments and probably putting capital pilots into long term squadrons so that you have pilots with the same cool downs for fights you may need to extract via cyno.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5187 - 2014-10-03 10:15:30 UTC
Jethro Winchester wrote:
FU 2 wrote:
I can foresee Jita covered in supercaps :D


Don't forget that Snuff Box, Shadow Cartel, etc, etc will be camping every lowsec entry point with supers, titans, and insta-locking Loki's since nobody will be able to hotdrop them.



IF they keep that too long they WILL be hotdropped. Nothign will prevent the power from doidng htat. They will just need to plan it on friday and execute on saturday.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Anthar Thebess
#5188 - 2014-10-03 10:15:54 UTC
Lurifax wrote:
Jethro Winchester wrote:
FU 2 wrote:
I can foresee Jita covered in supercaps :D


Don't forget that Snuff Box, Shadow Cartel, etc, etc will be camping every lowsec entry point with supers, titans, and insta-locking Loki's since nobody will be able to hotdrop them.



So will N3 pl and Goons. So go rent and get blue standing.


This is far better than Snuff Box, Shadow Cartel, N3 , CFC, PL hotdroping every thing every where , as no one else is able to hotdrop them back.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#5189 - 2014-10-03 10:18:28 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
This also reduces the insanely long multi-year trips, making them instead, multi-month trips,

There are no multi year long trips unless you are stupid enough to jump as soon as the timer lets you.
Just wait for the fatigue to drop to zero before you make your next jump and you won't see that exponential growth.
Hsu Li
F.U.N. Inc.
The Ancients.
#5190 - 2014-10-03 10:18:47 UTC
Easthir Ravin wrote:
Hsu Li wrote:
Interesting change. I have would suggest 2 changes though.

1) Add point of origin: Every time you use jump drive it checks if you are returning to your origin. If that is the case it adds only reduced jump timer and fatigue. Otherwise it calculates as normal. Origin can expire after certain time (30 mins?).
Example: You start at A. Origin is empty. Jump to B and add normal timer and fatigue, sets A as origin. Jump back to A and add reduced timer and fatigue as you are getting "home". Either remove origin or set it to B. Jump to C and it add normally and sets A as origin.

2) Allow setting medical clone to remote station, but make it to take time to actually set depending on your skill level and distance. If you get podded before it finishes creating medical clone you lose SP you gained since you started.
Example: 100M SP char have clone in station A. He set it up to station B 50 LY away and is notified it will take 12 hours to change. He then gets podded before it changes and wakes up in station A and loses all progress made in the meantime.
Another example: 500k cyno alt changes to station 15 LY away and is notified it will take 10 mins to update.



While these are interesting ideas, we as a community always do this crap. We try to lessen the blow of a completely horrendous idea. We should be saying, NO this is terrible and will not participate in the eventual just as crappy "compromised " nerf of a mechanic that is not the true problem. Fix SOV CCP...

I don't think what CCP is proposing is horrendous idea I mostly like it. I see what is CCP trying to do here and I am just proposing little modifications that will have less impact on areas that I think CCP wants to affect less.

With my proposed changes you can still do black op drops, move stuff to/out of your home, set clone to remote destinations. But if you wanted to move across large amounts of space you simply have to wait.

Agony Unleashed is recruiting
Murauke
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#5191 - 2014-10-03 10:18:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Murauke
LET THE FARMING OF CAPITAL PILOTS AND SHIPS COMMENCE.

I mean lets face it to navigate jump fatigue no-one said you couldn't have 3 capital alts to help with logistic runs.
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5192 - 2014-10-03 10:18:52 UTC
Jethro Winchester wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Just received this:

Quote:
Caps
From: xxxxx
To: xxxxx
Dear alliance members

In light of the proposed changes to capital deployment, we have at leadership level decided to focus our activities on capital manufacturing for the next 3 months.

I want every alliance member concentrating on:
1. buying capital pilots that are currently going on firesale
2. buying and building capitals

A list of strategic systems will be posted on our forums of where to store your capitals. Many players are claiming this change will stop force projection, we thought about it and rather than not adapt our aim is to have a capital fleet at our disposal in any area of the map. Our solution is quite simple focus on capital readiness by having capitals "to-go" in any area of eve. It will only take you 20 minutes - 30 minutes to use the jump bridges to high sec and move your pod across New Eden to our strategically placed capitals.

You all know me and I am all about adapting, this is us adapting.

See you on the battlefield
Alliance leaders


Gotta love this.


Called it! Welcome to the new and improved EVE where the big guys can't possibly hold on to all that renter income and small groups will be able to hold space. WTG CCP GRAYSCALE! *Cue laughter*



I will lol when this alliance deplyos to their capital stashes and then encounters 50 supers ...
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co.
#5193 - 2014-10-03 10:19:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Easthir Ravin
James Baboli wrote:
So, playing with the math a little, .1 fatigue per minute reduction seems very low. Personally I think that ~.25 is right, as this means that until you hit the very edge of range, you can jump into and out of a fight 1 jump away, and be cooled back off to do it again the next day. This also reduces the insanely long multi-year trips, making them instead, multi-month trips, which still force careful deployments and probably putting capital pilots into long term squadrons so that you have pilots with the same cool downs for fights you may need to extract via cyno.


Why would I want anything to take months to do in this game....I swear I am taking crazy pills if we think it is acceptable to have any timer in this game that is months long....

Realize we are talking about MOVING ships here and NOT building things.

IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES:  " I drank WHAT?!"
Murauke
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#5194 - 2014-10-03 10:21:54 UTC
Pesadel0 wrote:
Jethro Winchester wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Just received this:

Quote:
Caps
From: xxxxx
To: xxxxx
Dear alliance members

In light of the proposed changes to capital deployment, we have at leadership level decided to focus our activities on capital manufacturing for the next 3 months.

I want every alliance member concentrating on:
1. buying capital pilots that are currently going on firesale
2. buying and building capitals

A list of strategic systems will be posted on our forums of where to store your capitals. Many players are claiming this change will stop force projection, we thought about it and rather than not adapt our aim is to have a capital fleet at our disposal in any area of the map. Our solution is quite simple focus on capital readiness by having capitals "to-go" in any area of eve. It will only take you 20 minutes - 30 minutes to use the jump bridges to high sec and move your pod across New Eden to our strategically placed capitals.

You all know me and I am all about adapting, this is us adapting.

See you on the battlefield
Alliance leaders


Gotta love this.


Called it! Welcome to the new and improved EVE where the big guys can't possibly hold on to all that renter income and small groups will be able to hold space. WTG CCP GRAYSCALE! *Cue laughter*



I will lol when this alliance deplyos to their capital stashes and then encounters 50 supers ...


BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...... they'll be all jump fatigued!
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5195 - 2014-10-03 10:22:34 UTC
Hsu Li wrote:

I don't think what CCP is proposing is horrendous idea I mostly like it. I see what is CCP trying to do here and I am just proposing little modifications that will have less impact on areas that I think CCP wants to affect less.

With my proposed changes you can still do black op drops, move stuff to/out of your home, set clone to remote destinations. But if you wanted to move across large amounts of space you simply have to wait.




True. The idea is not bad, the numbers although need tweaking. And a bit of thinkign on the way people use and uses intended for ships are.

Black ops are not strategical, they should not need to be COMITED to a region for such a long time. Half the fatigue would be okish for them.

JF should get MORE fatigue than 10% if they want people to use some gates. Maybe increase their jump range to 6Ly so they can cross some very problematic regions.


Jump drive calibration must be made into something useful.


The fatigue cap at 1 month is a bit too high , unless they make JDC increase fatigue dispersion.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5196 - 2014-10-03 10:24:25 UTC
Murauke wrote:


BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...... they'll be all jump fatigued!



I find amazing how people are treating as if Jump drives will still be the only way for capitals to move.

GATES!! The major movement will be made by GATES!!! These changes will NOT prevent a capital force deployment from one day to the other. They will just make 20 minutes hyper escalations a thing of the past.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5197 - 2014-10-03 10:24:38 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
gascanu wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Tribal Trogdor wrote:
About caps jumping gates:

1) Carrier gate camps - If they sit 0 on gate, they have more than enough subcap killing potential along with enough RR potential to wait out 60 seconds of aggro if needed. This wouldn't be so bad in null as there are bubbles to keep them on the other side, but in low, how is this to be countered? Breaking a fair amount in under 60 seconds would take a fair amount of dreads, which have to siege and get stuck for 5 minutes, while the carriers are only stuck for 60. If the carriers jump out via the gate, they can align out, blap anything that might be sat on the other side to stop them (as most are stuck next door and the real DPS cant follow) and dock up. Even in null though, the dreads are still stuck out of the fight, unless of course they burn to the gate, jump in, and hope the archons hadn't reapproached in the time O.o

2) Cyno Jammers - Drop cyno next door, warp to gate, jump in. Kinda kills the point of it, yea?


- If you can get tackle on the other side, capitals generally take a while to get back to the gate. It ought to be manageable.

- There's still probably tactical advantage in forcing the enemy cap fleet to jump in through a gate.



i'm sorry, what?
so, your answer to this "new" capital gate camps is: from now on, to kill them you need to bring not only enough ppl to kill the camp, but you need to bring even more ppl in case they jump the gate....
so your answer is... "bring more ppl"???!


You mean 1 or 2 extra HICS.. WOW what a huge problem for 0.0 alliances.

dude are you stupid? 1 or 2 hics you say? how can 2 hics hold 4-5 -9 caps in place till the rest of your gang wait the agro and jump? are those hics using capital sized reps now or what?
Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5198 - 2014-10-03 10:26:14 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Hsu Li wrote:

I don't think what CCP is proposing is horrendous idea I mostly like it. I see what is CCP trying to do here and I am just proposing little modifications that will have less impact on areas that I think CCP wants to affect less.

With my proposed changes you can still do black op drops, move stuff to/out of your home, set clone to remote destinations. But if you wanted to move across large amounts of space you simply have to wait.




True. The idea is not bad, the numbers although need tweaking. And a bit of thinkign on the way people use and uses intended for ships are.

Black ops are not strategical, they should not need to be COMITED to a region for such a long time. Half the fatigue would be okish for them.

JF should get MORE fatigue than 10% if they want people to use some gates. Maybe increase their jump range to 6Ly so they can cross some very problematic regions.


Jump drive calibration must be made into something useful.


The fatigue cap at 1 month is a bit too high , unless they make JDC increase fatigue dispersion.


The jump fatigue is fine in the current form. Yes It will take longer and you have to be smart about it. We have been spoiled and are used to easy access to everything. Eve is a sandbox and eve is not supposed to be an easy sandbox.

Somebody post the learning curve.
Vigilanta
S0utherN Comfort
#5199 - 2014-10-03 10:26:28 UTC
Hey had a thought while we were talking about timing our super capital jumping to our significant others monthly cycles... (you can imagine, yes you can).


To the idea
So we currently have the guns safety setting that disallow us from accidentally triggering offensive modules in high sec if we set them that way. To help prevent people from accidentally concordoking themselves. I would like to request that something similiar be added for jumping. Basically we can set that if our jump fatigue is above a certain level and we try to jump it either

1. prevents us from jumping, or Safe mode
2. Pops up a dialog box, a just so you know your about to be forever long cooldown warning
3. Unsafe mode, allows you to jump if your able, no pops ups or warning

It would seem with a system with such significant penalties we should also have a system in place that if we set it up correctly will prevent us form making mistakes that could have extremely long duration consequences.
Murauke
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#5200 - 2014-10-03 10:27:05 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Murauke wrote:


BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...... they'll be all jump fatigued!



I find amazing how people are treating as if Jump drives will still be the only way for capitals to move.

GATES!! The major movement will be made by GATES!!! These changes will NOT prevent a capital force deployment from one day to the other. They will just make 20 minutes hyper escalations a thing of the past.


Don't get me wrong I want these to change. I just think CCP are focusing on the wrong part of capital deployment.

Punishing people for seeking out enjoyment shouldn't be the penalty of using capitals.

The thing that makes all this possible is the incredibly dull cyno mechanic. Change that, and you change force projection.