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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#3701 - 2014-10-02 17:34:37 UTC
Molotove Cocktease wrote:
Also please reconsider Blops, they are now niche-less.

I wouldn't say that. People are already saying this change will make it easy to defend bottleneck systems. Blops gives you an option to ignore fortified bottlenecks and strike deeper in someone elses territory, or to skip past their camps and hit them from behind.

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.
David Magnus
#3702 - 2014-10-02 17:35:16 UTC
Kat Ayclism wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


The Ironfist wrote:
CCP Greyscale once this is though and we wont or can't get to far away conflicts anymore were will we get our conflict you know content? What are you doing to make sure there will be local conflict? Because right now most nullsec space is not even worth fighting over much less holding it other then for renting it out? Are you going to address the fact that nullsec is especially worthless?


That's a question I'd suggest you ask your leaders, not us.



This *IS* a problem. You need to have conflict drivers beyond just "eh... let's go **** with these dudes." It's really not giving much confidence in the things to come after this if that is the type of response you have. Right now, and apparently in the future judging by that response there is little reason to go fight over some place.

You have the stick. You're brandishing the stick wildly. Now listen to your players and at least show some regard for the need of a carrot.



Exactly!
When you also look at how logistics is getting significantly more painful, but without any changes in null's ability to support itself - there isn't much reason to be in deep null.

Last time null could support a higher density of players making ISK, you just nerfed it into the ground again.

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion
Bill Genovo
Starfield Industries Ltd.
#3703 - 2014-10-02 17:35:24 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.



What about moving cyno alts that are vital to corps like Black Frog and other JF pilots? Pod Jumping an Alpha clone cyno alt between offices is standard practice in the logistics chain. Getting cyno alts in place is going to be pretty tough as they won't have interceptor skills in an Alpha clone and even if they did, adding travel time on top of the increased number of jumps and cooldowns will be maddening.
Nostromo Fidanza
Blueprint Mania
#3704 - 2014-10-02 17:35:54 UTC
Shock Beer wrote:
I hope CCP backflips when the unsubs start coming through


Nah. Probably after the over-sensitive crybaby nerds moan about every little change. gtfo
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#3705 - 2014-10-02 17:36:08 UTC
I wish this change was coming tomorrow.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#3706 - 2014-10-02 17:37:05 UTC
Lydia Maulerant wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


Your <30d old cyno alts can now teleport wherever they want.

Seems a bit problematic.


okay make it so a cyno alt has to be over 30 days to train cyno theory.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#3707 - 2014-10-02 17:37:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Big thanks to the whole CSM for their help with this process so far and the good work I know they'll continue to do as we consult with them going forward.




So that's a complete load of bollox then...........no surprises there.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3708 - 2014-10-02 17:37:49 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Greyscale
Charlotte Ginger wrote:

There is no need for this what so ever. Grab a Frig, and FLY

Seriously?


Anything that makes it easier for new players to start doing interesting stuff straight away is a thing that we are interested in supporting :)

Komi Toran wrote:

No: if you're less than 30 days old, one free move per new corp

If you're over 30 days old, one free move per year, corp has nothing to do with it


Yes.
StarFleetCommander
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#3709 - 2014-10-02 17:39:05 UTC
You know when its a good change when it creates this much attention Shocked
Bjor Ambramotte
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#3710 - 2014-10-02 17:39:12 UTC
@CCP Greyscale

You said earlier that fatigue modifiers were already possible in the code but I think a ton of people would be happy with a sliding scale based on ship sizes with a few special case exceptions:

0.10 : JF, Rorqual, Blockade Runner
0.20 : Frigate, Noob Ships
0.25 : Blackops BS, Cloaky Recons, Cloak Sub t3 (maybe start all Cloaky ships higher (.4?) and have a ~7.5% reduction by skill level in Recon, t3 offensive, blops skill)
0.30 : Destroyers
0.40 : Cruiser, Non-Cloaky T3
0.50 : Battlecruiser
0.70 : Battleship, Freighter
0.85 : Carrier
0.90 : Dread
1.00 : Super
1.10 : Titan

This would make it easy to quickly get your frigates deployed, then cruisers, then then fights would escalate progressively. That said, if you live close and can get your heavy ships in quickly you'll likely hold the field. Also, a sliding scale could work to stratify Carriers, Dreads, Supers, Titans and promote natural fight escalations.
Charlotte Ginger
Death Troopers
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#3711 - 2014-10-02 17:39:30 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Charlotte Ginger wrote:

There is no need for this what so ever. Grab a Frig, and FLY

Seriously?


Anything that makes it easier for new players to start doing interesting stuff straight away is a thing that we are interested in supporting :)

Komi Toran wrote:

No: if you're less than 30 days old, one free move per new corp

If you're over 30 days old, one free move per year, corp has nothing to do with it





But its not 'new players' its alt's...
MrQuisno
Doomheim
#3712 - 2014-10-02 17:39:48 UTC
Like I eve mail CCP, grey corps should be allow one HQ and it's stuck in that station for 30 days. Pirate
Inherent Legend
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3713 - 2014-10-02 17:39:49 UTC
Murauke wrote:
I slept on it and I think that CCP's focus on solving the challenge of force projection is on the wrong part of the over all problem.

Punishing people for jumping ships around space in search of enjoyment shouldn't be the focal point of reducing force projection.

In my opinion the cyno mechanic should be the focal point. After all this is what makes it possible to jump capitals around our fictitious universe.

By changing the ease by which a cyno can be deployed this will affect the ease to which a force can projected across the universe .

I worry that by imposing a "time bound" penalty to a branch of the game that has always been about the "sandbox" and the" immediate enjoyment" you will push Eve down a path where it will lose its identity as one of the best MMORPG's in the world.

Focus on the cyno step of jumping ships and this opens up an array of avenues from specific cyno ships, modules, fleet roles, limitations and certain requirements.

Cyno-ing requires 5 days with a new character and that pilot can cyno an entire fleet into a system with next to no difficulty. Personally this is part of the act of force projection that should be the focus, not the punishment to a pilot of jumping his/her ship around space in search for fun.



I think you might be onto something.

The overall concept from CCP isn't that bad but the nerf is MASSIVE. I could imagine that if instead of 58.5 Minutes for the cooldown to reset after the first jump, it took lets say 25 minutes, then it may have some desirable effects in general, such as making 20+ Supers drop onto a small engagement anywwhere in Eve very impractical and less likely to occur, which I think is one of the things that CCP is trying to fix. But let's explore different mechanics (some really crazy ones):

1. What if the Cyno jump itself lasted 5 minutes and if during that time the cyno ship was destroyed, it would cause all ships that are in the jump to get scathered across the universe?

2. What if instead of making max jump distance shorter, we make space wider in low and null? Look at a real galaxy, the stars get farther apart the further you are from the center. In Eve, Empire space is mostly in the center, which makes sense that systems are close together and travel there should be quick and easy. But away from the center, systems should get farther apart, making travel longer and more difficult.

3. What about bonuses and penalties to jump range depending on the Sov? If you are in a system that is controlled by your Corp/Alliance, you get a bonus. in blue space, a small bonus. In neutral space its the same for everyone. In ennemy space you get a penalty, etc...

I'm on board with what CCP is trying to accomplish but I'm against making things complex and / or a logistical nightmare.

If the Cooldown cycle is avatar based, then I'm afraid it will cause some players to just have to have more avatars. If it is ship based, some players will stash ships in different places to make their long trips less painful. The Cooldown cycle approach I think is flawed for this reason.

Please explore some different mechanics.
WeatEars
Ida Corr Backing Group
#3714 - 2014-10-02 17:39:53 UTC
Let me join the choir and flex my long time player muscles while arguing that this will be detrimental to a specific type of play style (which I by the way have been enjoying - or not). I can also repeat the obvious conclusion of the unfinished Little Bobby example (scarily unreflective) or a number of other already posted good reasons to think this development over.

I apprecitate the intentions of CCP and CSM and don't have alternative solutions myself.
I can offer this though:
Eve is time consuming. There is no justice and we don't all have equal opportunities. It HAS to pay out that some people invest more time and money (and are maybe even smarter) than others. SOV war mechancs didn't hold because it works to bring more guns than the opposition. And it works to set the timers at unconvinient hours. But we all have lives outside of Eve.
There must be a big chunk of us secretly enjoying the repetive motion of the hamsterwheel while working towards more or less well defined goals. But not at all cost. All the thrills of large scale fleet battles or late night corp roams do not make up for having to explain to the wife why you have not done this or that. Or why you are coming to bed at five in the morning, when you have to get up for work at seven.
Successful balancing of real life and game play require the possibility to commit to either over shorter or longer periods without risking loosing everything in the neglected part. The reason we are not all grinding sov (or whatever) as in the good old days is not that some big alliance is batphoning and blobbing us. The reason is that we are getting older and get responsibilities and maybe even diversify our interests. Eve - well CCP - has to accept being a part of our lives - not all of our life.

In short: Game play changes that extend the time needed to complete a task or run an operation will drive the player base away.
And the level of commitment to Eve has to be controlable, so that stepping away can be done without loosing everything.

PS: Thanks for a great game from a long time addict. You are doing so much right.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#3715 - 2014-10-02 17:39:56 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Anything that makes it easier for new players to start doing interesting stuff straight away is a thing that we are interested in supporting :)

Passing gate camp = fun.
Living in a blue doughnut = not fun.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3716 - 2014-10-02 17:40:02 UTC
Love the jump changes, even though I just finished reskilling into capitals.

For those who think that it's going to be hard living in deep nullsec, IT SHOULD BE. There should be challenges to overcome if you want a really deep defensible position.

JF / Rorq runs are not going to hose your ability to participate in combat ops later on, and that's a good thing.

CFC will still be able to field 1000 Megas... just not everywhere at once. Same with cap fleets. Big alliances will need to choose where to defend when, and that choice is going to shape nullsec for the next several months.

I wasn't terribly persuaded by the Newbie Death Clone argument (get off your lazy butts and escort them in, you pansies), but the solution seems to be a good one. Severe limits outside of that 30 day window seem reasonable as well, if the goal is to prevent deathcloning as a way to end-run around the jump changes.

In all, damn fine job CCP.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Vhaine Vhindiscar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3717 - 2014-10-02 17:40:06 UTC
Remember when people played games for fun? Stop killing fun. How is making logistics harder for the people that rely on that stuff to actually have fun? No person in their right fn mind wants to do a convoy op. You people put jump freighters in the darned game specifically because escort missions are dumb and boring even when we aren't talking about eve.

How is making large sections of null sec waste lands due to logistical challenges FUN or good for Eve?

When more sections of null are miserable and deserted, who's going to be fighting out there exactly?

Why would anyone live in those crappy remote regions when the economic returns are horrible and the geography makes defense impractical?
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3718 - 2014-10-02 17:40:31 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


It's going to have a significant impact, to be sure, and that's something we need to keep an eye on. At the same time, though, people built T2 ships and modules before jump freighters existed, so we're somewhat skeptical of the argument that that T2 construction is impossible without JFs.



Greyscale this is a serious question. How much do you actually play this game? I mean not how much do you log in at the office while you are getting paid and trying to do your job I mean how much do you actually "play" the game.

I strongly suggest that you hold off on these changes and get an alt involved in null sec industrial supply logistics and see if these changes still make sense. Maybe you and a few of the other devs could set up a corp of alts and try to do T2 invention and manufacturing deep in NPC null or rent a system without a station deep in null and let me know how that works out for you. My guess is you'll have a very different opinion on this.

Or you could just release you opinion based on ( what I am guessing is ) almost no actual in game experience on TQ and let the chips fall where they may.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Shatoya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3719 - 2014-10-02 17:40:49 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year




You dont even play this game do you?
Bolur Freir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3720 - 2014-10-02 17:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Bolur Freir
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


What about having it use the same timer as a jump clone?

To clarify, I mean using the same timer as in if you jump clone you can't change your med clone for 24 hours minus the skill mod. Since I assume the objective is to prevent people from using the med clone to get around the JC timer I think this would be a fair compromise. Having it at one year makes it impossible for more nomadic groups to deal with clones.