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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#2601 - 2014-10-02 06:36:57 UTC
Gavin Dax wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Phase Two is focused on medium-term changes to the ways that organizations capture and hold Nullsec space and infrastructure (...) currently most of our conceptual prototyping has loosely fallen into categories that could be described as "occupancy-based" systems and more "freeform" systems that decentralize sov to focus more on control of the individual pieces of infrastructure.


This plan is totally misguided and won't have the effect that people want. The reason why we have stagnation is that the game lacks *CONFLICT DRIVERS*. It's not because the SOV mechanics are bad. It's because literally once you have your space you have no reason to leave it or take someone else's space.

Make ISK harder to obtain - more risk and changing conditions. The best space today should not be the best space for what you want 6 months from now. The ability to just stay in a system and farm it for ISK forever without going anywhere else is the real problem.

We need more conflict drivers and they need to be dynamic. People need a reason to fight - a game where every fight is an honour brawl is just stupid, and that's currently what it is - fights for the sake of fights alone. Marginally slower travel times or SOV mechanic changes do absolutely nothing to fix the underlying issue. They will not magically fix anything or even come close - it's just blue sky thinking. The fact that conflict drivers were not even mentioned in the dev blog (or even in the open letter to CCP from the players) at all just shows how misguided the approach to this is right now.

Best. Attention
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2602 - 2014-10-02 06:37:12 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:

Yea this one is goin to be brutal on sub numbers.


if its not the carebears who'd unsub, rest of 0.0 would who is tired of monolitic bipolar eve.
Prince Kobol
#2603 - 2014-10-02 06:37:20 UTC
Shojin Askulf wrote:
No reason for anyone to unsub at the moment, lets see how ccp react to this topic, more than a month before this goes live leaves a lot of time for tweaks and changes, those jumping ship because of a dev blog which has specifically been put out here to gauge reactions and gain feedback both negative and positive really do need to go play wow instead.

IF these changes go live as is then yes I can see the game changing in a lot of ways only six months down the road will we see how those changes actually effect and how different groups adapt.

Give feedback, thoughts and criticism plus ideas then take a breath and lets see what november brings, always time to push the cancel button then.


When was the last time CCP backed down from changes they had proposed?
Dave stark
#2604 - 2014-10-02 06:37:41 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Mark Hadden wrote:
lmao, 131 pages whine.
holy cow :D


you say that, but you physically can't jump more than 6 times in a day, and if you do that you can't then do any jumps for 3.5 days. (and your fatigue will be at nearly 20 days (assuming all jumps are 5ly)).

to be honest, the most interesting parts of this change are seeing how high you can get your jump fatigue. or maybe that's because i'm not a cap pilot so maths is the only part of these changes that i understand....

then again, if you just wait an hour between jumps you never have to care about fatigue to begin with.




Well to be honest it was also a good thing that Red Dragons could not use their breath weapon at every turn. You can only roll so many saving throws before that D20 ceases to smile upon thee.

(D20 is a 20-sided die, kids. My cousin once killed a dinosaur with one)


I know i'm young, but i ain't that young!
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#2605 - 2014-10-02 06:38:26 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:

Yea this one is goin to be brutal on sub numbers.


if its not the carebears who'd unsub, rest of 0.0 would who is tired of monolitic bipolar eve.

Still this situation is truly a matter of trust, and for very precise reasons, would i say.
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#2606 - 2014-10-02 06:38:53 UTC
OldWolf69 wrote:

Actually i think it's all about sustenability . If "work" part becomes 3-4x bigger than "fun" part this not a good mix.



Some players just want to be space truckers while others just want to PVP. These changes facilitate both jobs and create openings for more players. I don't enjoy PVP that much so what I consider work is different than what a PVPer considers work. This is a boon for on truckers and PVPers because it allows for more trucking jobs and allows for more mercenaries to provide protection. It also opens the door for more ganks and gate camps and that in turn drives up the need for more escorts. It is content to someone. We shouldn't all just up and unsub over a change that hasn't even happened and isn't even written in stone.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson
Dave stark
#2607 - 2014-10-02 06:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
You know what will be exceptionally fun?

When renters figure out that their landlords have hard time keeping their own massive amounts of space together and decide to "change" the agreements a bit Twisted. Smart and brave renters, say hello to high end moons in your possession. Lol

Disclaimer: At least those renters who know how to play this game well (the rest will evac to highsec).


if you rent within 10ly of where your landlord keeps his caps, you'll be doing no such thing.

2 jumps to stomp on your face, and 2 jumps home gives you a total of like 16 hours fatigue... that's less than a night's sleep and a day in the office. not exactly a large price to pay to stamp on unruly peasants.

in fact, within 20ly... they'll just have to make the trip home tomorrow, instead.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#2608 - 2014-10-02 06:41:06 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Shojin Askulf wrote:
No reason for anyone to unsub at the moment, lets see how ccp react to this topic, more than a month before this goes live leaves a lot of time for tweaks and changes, those jumping ship because of a dev blog which has specifically been put out here to gauge reactions and gain feedback both negative and positive really do need to go play wow instead.

IF these changes go live as is then yes I can see the game changing in a lot of ways only six months down the road will we see how those changes actually effect and how different groups adapt.

Give feedback, thoughts and criticism plus ideas then take a breath and lets see what november brings, always time to push the cancel button then.


When was the last time CCP backed down from changes they had proposed?

Freighter rigs a couple of months back, statistically speaking P
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#2609 - 2014-10-02 06:41:30 UTC  |  Edited by: OldWolf69
Burl en Daire wrote:
OldWolf69 wrote:

Actually i think it's all about sustenability . If "work" part becomes 3-4x bigger than "fun" part this not a good mix.



Some players just want to be space truckers while others just want to PVP. These changes facilitate both jobs and create openings for more players. I don't enjoy PVP that much so what I consider work is different than what a PVPer considers work. This is a boon for on truckers and PVPers because it allows for more trucking jobs and allows for more mercenaries to provide protection. It also opens the door for more ganks and gate camps and that in turn drives up the need for more escorts. It is content to someone. We shouldn't all just up and unsub over a change that hasn't even happened and isn't even written in stone.

This won't make up for more trucking jobs. It will stay same numbers, but way more lame and risky. Also slower isk income on long run. prices will rise, sustenability will be lower, and it will end in the "not worth the pain" corner.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2610 - 2014-10-02 06:41:40 UTC
OldWolf69 wrote:
Gavin Dax wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Phase Two is focused on medium-term changes to the ways that organizations capture and hold Nullsec space and infrastructure (...) currently most of our conceptual prototyping has loosely fallen into categories that could be described as "occupancy-based" systems and more "freeform" systems that decentralize sov to focus more on control of the individual pieces of infrastructure.


This plan is totally misguided and won't have the effect that people want. The reason why we have stagnation is that the game lacks *CONFLICT DRIVERS*. It's not because the SOV mechanics are bad. It's because literally once you have your space you have no reason to leave it or take someone else's space.

Make ISK harder to obtain - more risk and changing conditions. The best space today should not be the best space for what you want 6 months from now. The ability to just stay in a system and farm it for ISK forever without going anywhere else is the real problem.

We need more conflict drivers and they need to be dynamic. People need a reason to fight - a game where every fight is an honour brawl is just stupid, and that's currently what it is - fights for the sake of fights alone. Marginally slower travel times or SOV mechanic changes do absolutely nothing to fix the underlying issue. They will not magically fix anything or even come close - it's just blue sky thinking. The fact that conflict drivers were not even mentioned in the dev blog (or even in the open letter to CCP from the players) at all just shows how misguided the approach to this is right now.

Best. Attention

Roving NPC content that moves through sovnull, lasts a year in a region before moving on, and boosts whatever side holds it so much that it shifts the balance of power, would be the serious conflict driver you are looking for.

I agree with the dude who said this is the best idea yet.
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2611 - 2014-10-02 06:41:55 UTC
I'm glad CCP is applying a sledgehammer to existing 0.0 structures instead of scratching a bit.
Eve cant be dead much more than it is already, go ahead!
KanashiiKami
#2612 - 2014-10-02 06:41:56 UTC
KanashiiKami wrote:
just a note to the DEV, once this mechanics is on, as per what has been highlighted, will there be adjustments or re-balances in mining resources? moon resources?

cos everything that needs some distance in sourcing, has now changed. esp the part on JITA ...

surely you do not expect all JF to jump into ONLY 2 exit systems? you might as well ... relist JITA as LO-sec LOL ... am i right? Lol


for all the new alliances that try to form a new home in null ... if they need to be self sustaining ... the range of where resources needs to be found surely needs to be re-addressed (except empire specific types) ... or maybe ... full re-randomizing with new algorithm, that self adjusts every DT ?

WUT ???
Shojin Askulf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2613 - 2014-10-02 06:41:59 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Shojin Askulf wrote:
No reason for anyone to unsub at the moment, lets see how ccp react to this topic, more than a month before this goes live leaves a lot of time for tweaks and changes, those jumping ship because of a dev blog which has specifically been put out here to gauge reactions and gain feedback both negative and positive really do need to go play wow instead.

IF these changes go live as is then yes I can see the game changing in a lot of ways only six months down the road will we see how those changes actually effect and how different groups adapt.

Give feedback, thoughts and criticism plus ideas then take a breath and lets see what november brings, always time to push the cancel button then.


When was the last time CCP backed down from changes they had proposed?


I do not expect them to back down but I believe they will tweak this and if not then it could either kill eve or cause us to adapt and change the way we play, not even going to guess what the results will be, I think we should all be able to agree big changes were needed although this one does seem a little left field :)
Kasarch
Techno Hive
Legion of xXDEATHXx
#2614 - 2014-10-02 06:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasarch
This "improvement" is a head shot for small roaming alliances, that must change their regroup points to find any kind of pvp. That alliances have lot of ships that must be transported to new regroup point and no such of many carriers to take this ships for one time.
Even now i need to make 3+ carrier jumps to reach old regroup point and take ships from it...

CCP what sort of drugs you are using? These changes not fixing null-sec stagnation, it just killing some aspects of game, but not killing null-sec stagnation.
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman
#2615 - 2014-10-02 06:42:41 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
You know what will be exceptionally fun?

When renters figure out that their landlords have hard time keeping their own massive amounts of space together and decide to "change" the agreements a bit Twisted. Smart and brave renters, say hello to high end moons in your possession. Lol

Disclaimer: At least those renters who know how to play this game well (the rest will evac to highsec).


if you rent within 10ly of where your landlord keeps his caps, you'll be doing no such thing.

2 jumps to stomp on your face, and 2 jumps home gives you a total of like 16 hours fatigue... that's less than a night's sleep and a day in the office. not exactly a large price to pay to stamp on unruly peasants.

in fact, within 20ly... they'll just have to make the trip home tomorrow, instead.


Yeah, now do that every day, hehe.
Professor Headmash
Under the Influence Inc
#2616 - 2014-10-02 06:42:43 UTC
looking at the amount of goons who are going to desub off the back of this, seems there won't be many of them left soon.....VFK by Christmas anyone? Big smile

Seriously though, while I can understand people's frustrations, at the same time I can't see why the majority can't see this as a good change. This is going to promote LOCAL area content for everyone. No more flying around the map fighting nameless alliances because a mate of a mate of the half brother of the FC asked for help. Placement of caps will now be key to home defence and invasion plans, people will actually have to start this thinking medium/long term instead of "it'll be fine, support fleet can be here in 10 mins'.

Also this should help with that thing I always hear null bears moaning about, TIDI....if half the map can't get there in 10 mins, you may have to start doing more than pressing f1 and watching your guns cycle once every 10 minutes. You could actually start like, playing the game like the rest of us Big smile

So in conclusion, while logistics will be slightly affected ( start making it locally instead of relaying on jita!) the fact that the carrier blob is going to be limited to an alliances local area ( unless preplanned to be moved) is nothing but a good thing. I'm sure this will promote lots of smaller wars and hopefully start to get sov shaken up a bit.
Dave stark
#2617 - 2014-10-02 06:43:37 UTC
JIeoH Mocc wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
You know what will be exceptionally fun?

When renters figure out that their landlords have hard time keeping their own massive amounts of space together and decide to "change" the agreements a bit Twisted. Smart and brave renters, say hello to high end moons in your possession. Lol

Disclaimer: At least those renters who know how to play this game well (the rest will evac to highsec).


if you rent within 10ly of where your landlord keeps his caps, you'll be doing no such thing.

2 jumps to stomp on your face, and 2 jumps home gives you a total of like 16 hours fatigue... that's less than a night's sleep and a day in the office. not exactly a large price to pay to stamp on unruly peasants.

in fact, within 20ly... they'll just have to make the trip home tomorrow, instead.


Yeah, now do that every day, hehe.


erm, easily... like i said within 10ly you can do 2 jumps there, and 2 jumps back with only ~16 hours fatigue. that will decay between most play sessions... as i pointed out that's about the same time i spend asleep and in the office on a standard day.
Zacaral
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2618 - 2014-10-02 06:44:09 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Shojin Askulf wrote:
No reason for anyone to unsub at the moment, lets see how ccp react to this topic, more than a month before this goes live leaves a lot of time for tweaks and changes, those jumping ship because of a dev blog which has specifically been put out here to gauge reactions and gain feedback both negative and positive really do need to go play wow instead.

IF these changes go live as is then yes I can see the game changing in a lot of ways only six months down the road will we see how those changes actually effect and how different groups adapt.

Give feedback, thoughts and criticism plus ideas then take a breath and lets see what november brings, always time to push the cancel button then.


When was the last time CCP backed down from changes they had proposed?



There was that time that CCP Shall Not Be Named said he wanted to remove the vindi webs.
Brutus Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2619 - 2014-10-02 06:44:28 UTC
Null Tears pour forth.

Let me grab a bucket to catch these null tears in the name of our lord BOB!

Just one final change needed the removal of local and everything will be as BOB intended.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#2620 - 2014-10-02 06:44:40 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

Roving NPC content that moves through sovnull, lasts a year in a region before moving on, and boosts whatever side holds it so much that it shifts the balance of power, would be the serious conflict driver you are looking for.

I agree with the dude who said this is the best idea yet.


Well, no. That would look something like: "Move away, noobs. Your region has the boost now and we're moving in." ... be it PL, GSF or NC. No place for anyone that don't have a supercap blob.