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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Xavier Pike
EVE University
Ivy League
#2441 - 2014-10-02 04:34:42 UTC
I don't think I've ever posted on the forums about anything, but since this is the absolute worst idea I have ever heard from CCP, I wanted to state my opposition to these changes. I don't even have a capital ship yet, but I am training for one in the future. I'm not sure I will continue playing if these changes go through as planned.
Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2442 - 2014-10-02 04:35:39 UTC
Do I understand correctly, that the way these changes are set up a JDC5 character in a black ops ship will be able to jump farther than the same character in a capital ship? WTF?
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q
Ushra'Khan
#2443 - 2014-10-02 04:36:05 UTC
Well, i'm a lowsec citizen. Always have been, always will be.

And while i understand this change might (and most likely WILL) hurt logistics a lot, this still isn't necessarily a bad thing. Maybe it will give people more incentives to actually move their mining and manufacturing corps to nullsec. People could start logistic corps. Guarded freighter treks might come back. No more easy mode.

And keep it mind, the change affects everyone the same.


No matter how you look at it, most of nullsec is unused, empty, useless space as of now. And if that changes, it's a good thing. Having to actually, really, realisticly live in the space you claim makes so much more sense.

The change might open up so much space, it gives smaller entitites way better chances at guerrilla fighting, it rewards smaller fights on more than one front. Tactical movement actually is just that. Tactical. Because you have to think and plan before moving cap fleets around. Maybe even give up a front sometime because you couldn't afford the time having your caps stuck in the wrong system. You could bait cap fleets away from an area and then strike when they are on cooldown and can't move back fast enough. How is this not ******* awesome?

And best of all, chances of PL hotdropping my poor 10 man cruiser fleet will decrease. I have so many BS in my hangar that i simply could not undock wihtout being hotdropped for over a year now. Finally!

pew pew
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2444 - 2014-10-02 04:36:11 UTC
Sarah Nahrnid wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Please ccp think about adding a new Jump Freighter that has a big Ship Maintenance Array instead of a cargo bay.

As a smaller corp I typically use my carrier for logistics purpose to transport assembled and fitted ships. I fully support the new changes but feel that without replacing the logistics use of carriers its going to severely hurt my play style.

Though if you added a new Jump Freighter that had a SMA this would help me maintain my nomadic ways.


That's a large part of what my carrier is for. You know, that 1million m3 SMA, which also happens to be full, everytime my carrier moves?

CCP is ******* sov null not fixing it.

-6 accounts until this **** is fixed and hopefully fixed by people who actually play in sov null


i am not going to unsub... chances are ill just do some faction warfare till it gets fixed

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
koopa miner
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2445 - 2014-10-02 04:39:16 UTC
The tears... the tears are so delicious. Also, Bet PL won't take their Supers on a roam to lowsec once this change hits.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2446 - 2014-10-02 04:39:29 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
So deep space logistics will go from a chore done by a dedicated few to keep 0.0 alliances going to become strategic ops carried (that will become content generators) out by many to keep 0.0 alliances going.


You are aware, I hope, that JF travel will still be possible in almost all of nullsec, and it will merely become 20x more of a PITA. It already sucks so badly that I sometimes work late just to avoid it.
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#2447 - 2014-10-02 04:40:24 UTC
Sakura Nihil wrote:
The last several pages have been consistent in their message of "these changes are making life harder for logistics pilots".

Yes, they will. That's part of the point. From the looks of it, CCP is trying to push nullsec groups into mining, refining, and building locally in nullsec, rather than getting everything you need in highsec and shipping it out to nullsec for consumption. That was part of the though with the Crius industry changes, to reprocessing in particular.

It makes perfect sense why they're doing it, too. Much of nullsec sits unused, despite being "owned", and the resources out there could fuel local economies, T2 / T3 production, the whole nine yards. Yet, people enjoy the convenience of loading up a JF in Jita and jumping off back to null for one-stop shopping. If you kneecap near-instant logistics, you suddenly create local demands that can be satisfied by manufacturers in nullsec.

Also, keep in mind, if the current vision for EVE pans out, within a few years we're going to be moving out into unknown space, colonizing new systems, opening new stargates, and the like. On the frontier, you harvest resources available to you, rather than running back to developed space for everything you need.

As an aside, I understand that from a personal level, a lot of people have invested time and money into being logistics pilots with JFs, good JDC skills, and all that. Anytime a nerf happens that hits you where you spent SP and ISK, it hurts. But I hope that you and everyone else out there in the same boat will see that we need to make the universe big once again.

Besides, there's always opportunity in these changes... last time I checked, there were cloaky haulers that can ferry loot to and from trade hubs quickly. If people can no longer transport items via JF (easy mode), maybe there's money to be made in a new market? Maybe an EVE version of Western Union?



One small problem - all the materials you need to do production do not exist locally in deep sov null, and these systems can be 30+ LY from lowsec and with a regional gate larger than 5 LY in between. Please tell me how living in such an area which cannot support local production and now requires a full time job consisting of some of the most tedious and boring "gameplay" in eve to supply it is going to be fun at all. Eve is not a job it is a game, I don't sub to eve so I can spend 4 hours a day doing boring sh*t logistics work and gate jumping so that maybe if I'm lucky I can spent the last 15 min I am online doing something I enjoy.

To fix this the 5 LY limit absolutely must be changed and should be based on ship class, not some absurd blanket limit for every ship in the game. And for the love of god this jump fatigue crap that requires me to have a spreadsheet open at all times needs to be simplified and capped. A max jump cool down of 1-3 days for someone that went full ****** and crossed the galaxy accomplishes the goal of keeping them out of any fights for several days without the stupid numbers being quoted today.

I really have little interest in playing a game that consists of me sitting in a station and watching a timer count down to tell me when I can do something fun again,

And all the idiots saying they used to supply nullsec with Indy/freighter convoys before there we're jump drives - that was before the warp speed changes. There is no way in hell I would pay to play a game that required me to jump a freighter at 5+ min per system 30+ jumps into hostile space. There is no fun to be had there.
Syndic Thrass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2448 - 2014-10-02 04:40:30 UTC
Bodiil wrote:
What about all the "personal" r32/r64 low-sec moons that BL/PL/Goons have? What will happen to them?

Heavens to Betsy I believe they will be much, much, MUCH harder to defend come November.

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eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee



My person moons are all within 4 jumps of my home system. Fortress Dek wins again! These changes are literally moronic. Get the battle Hoarders ready cause its about to be monument shooting time in Jita

Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8
Dreiden Kisada
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2449 - 2014-10-02 04:40:54 UTC
Burl en Daire wrote:



OCCUPANCY-BASED SOVEREIGNTY has been the mantra of many null alliances and when they give it to them by restricting ranges they begin to complain that they can't survive because their logistics can't manage. OCCUPANCY-BASED means you own it because you occupy and use the space. CCP have given them what they wanted with Phase one. I think what they really want is lower EHP structures so they can run all over smaller groups more easily because the way I see it this is a buff to smaller and medium sized alliances.



Occupancy-based Sovereignty doesn't mean chaining caps to home base. It means making systems able to support a higher concentration of people, and requiring active pilots to hold sov.

This isn't occupancy-based sov. If you leave to go do some other stuff, the reds can't jump in caps to take your space.
Lord Ra
Sicarius.
#2450 - 2014-10-02 04:42:30 UTC
As a player of 11 years i've seen alot of changes, some much bigger than others and in the past, changes that have made friends quit.


The said change proposed has it's ups and downs and perhaps shouldn't be implemented partially but as a whole with the player built stargates and Decembers release.

I'm not interested in starting any flames or revisiting this forum post in future to check replies so please don't take it personally i simply want to say....

If the changes go live and it means some people quit, then so be it. The null sec mechanics are boring, dull and have been broken for a long time now and i'm really happy that this is finally being addressed.

The changes need to be made and the game needs to go in a different direction, myself and some others in this post can see that direction i only hope you pursue it and bring life back into null sec and potentially bring new life and players into the game with it.
Darksereph
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2451 - 2014-10-02 04:42:43 UTC
Ha Ha, Do these people even play this game that come up with these ideas. Roll
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2452 - 2014-10-02 04:42:45 UTC
There are some problems with this.

An invading force would be required to move thousands of ships and mods. Which as we all know, with these changes would take forever. With the way the timers are set up, Big Blocks can easily push the timers for the 3rd one and have enough time to move their supers/cap fleet to the region. once they are there with their buddies they can just take gates as one unit. The downside is CCPs TiDi mechanics. Now instead of fights taking hours, traveling to a system to defend or attack will also take hours or not happen at all.

Fast Forward 5 months.

CFC/PL/N3 still own the same systems they do now. Except now they have more members. These members are not new recruits, they are new alts for Super Pilots and they are sitting in New Supers in another region that they own. Now they dont have to worry about cool down timers or anything. They just have to log in on that character and have the rest of the members jump clone to the station where they have stocked dreads/carriers and sub caps.

Change is needed, but these ideas are not thought out very well and tend to lead to more characters per person and the strengthening of NullSec as it is.
Kayanarkan
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2453 - 2014-10-02 04:43:31 UTC
I would be ok with this if they refund all the points I have in cap ships and jump drives on all of my characters as well as refund all the points I have in cyno alts and give those cyno alt points to my mains.
Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2454 - 2014-10-02 04:43:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Athryn Bellee
Maximum jump fatigue/cooldown should be one hour. Anything higher than that is ridiculous.
BuddyKnife
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2455 - 2014-10-02 04:44:14 UTC
Logistics is the life blood of 0.0 these changes WILL kill 0.0.
Detria
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2456 - 2014-10-02 04:45:30 UTC
2014.10.01 16:43 -> 2014.10.02 04:43 - 125 pages and 2500 replies.... This a record yet? First impression? Horrible ideas...
Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#2457 - 2014-10-02 04:45:47 UTC
NinjaTurtle wrote:
Is it me or does this seems like an uncharacteristically heavy-handed balance pass? Some of these ideas could be great if you applied them more specifically but at this point you're just swinging the bat as you walk through the room. Thumbs down.

They need to take a big swing. If they do nothing the game WILL bleed to death.

This at least gives a chance of survival.

Doing nothing= Certain death
This plan = maybe life maybe death.
Better than certain death.
Warhead Tamarkus
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#2458 - 2014-10-02 04:45:48 UTC
I wonder if alpha clones aren't a bit too stringent. (for the death cloning the to new home)

MOST corps have a 5m minimum for new recruits and many corps have steeper reqs than that. My own corp requires 15m. However i am not suggesting EVE pander to my corps recruitment policies. What I am trying to make clear is that a noob character (actual noob to the game) doesnt even really know how to look for or even join a corp/alliance. for the most part noobs think that their next step is to run missions/mine and that their rifter is the biggest most bad ass ship EVER.
therefore my suggestion is perhaps make the clone limitation for deathcloning 5-10 mil SP. and that will allow these new young players to learn about eve online and eventually decide that they want to hate or love the CFC, that they like N3 or what ever new sov holding super powers have arisen at that time.

obviously the jump shock thing is huge...

i wonder if logistics ships should be effected at all....why should any one care if i move my jump freighter 350 light years? the only sort of force projection i can see coming from that is if i bring my combat ships/fittings in my JF and am flying with my 250 bro's in THEIR JF's to out destination...where we will dock and build our ships....to finally undock and bring battle to our foes...ectectect.
those hard working logi duders are the very back bone to so much that eve online nulsec IS. B-R would not have happened if logi duders hadnt been able to seed those ships and ammo and jump fuels.
dont want huge mega engagments like that? fine last night's roam would not have been possible in Geminate if my alliances logi duders hadnt been able to stock our markets with new hurricanes.
Blacks ops being changes hurs my soul pretty hard. u can have my carrier and super....but black ops fleets are such rinse and repeat fleets that any sort of nerf there will destroy them.

i cannot count the fleets that i have dropped in to assassinate a target, jumped myself in, bridged my fighters home and jumped home myself only to set up for a new drop.
i KNOW that larger groups like PL have dropped whole fleets of redeemers on supers and what not but frankly eve is not plagued by rampaging fleets of redeemers at every corner. eve is troubled by every one's ability to traverse the universe in their carrier/super of choice and jump into that mega battle which has been artificially prolonged by 10% TIDI. Black ops arent broken in my humble opinion.

B-R would STILL happen under the new system because all the encroaching fleets need to do is hold for 5-6 mins per jump to get rid of jump shock...so...30(ish) to arrive some where that is 5 jumps away? didnt B-R take 21 hours? i think the fleets will still converge.

Lowsec doomsdays.....why were these ever restricted? I think they are utterly stupid but i also think supers in general are really really really broken the gap between battle-cruiser and battleship is not that great, or is the gap from battleship to carrier/dread. why is the gap from carrier/dread to super soooo supreme? talking about a difference of 10's of thousands of DPS from carrier to super carrier and millions upon millions of EHP....such a huge gap is obviously game breaking.

sorry if some of this is inaccurate, just my understanding of the game as it stands today.
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#2459 - 2014-10-02 04:46:01 UTC
Looks like this is mainly pissing off the "surprise! buttsecs" crowd.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#2460 - 2014-10-02 04:46:13 UTC
Sral TBear wrote:
Remember how you did it the old days, this will be just like that. So the game is not evolving, its actualy rolling back Question

Eve is a sandbox, you just have to adapt. Well i have done that since 2005, but i cant adapt to get more RL time to play the game Sad

Ha ha cap pilot tears are the best tears. Ya proberbly, but stil sux to loose the one asset we had so we could live in 0.0 as a small corpWhat?

Again, i have been changing play style since 2005, every hick up, every "awsome" change, in general they have not toutched the one thing i cant do anything about, RL time to play the game. Over the years they actualy made it a tad easyer. I will wait and se, but these changes might be that one magical drop in the glassRoll

Kinda sux getting a felling about being forced out of a game because i want to keep a RL to. (Im a semi old fart with family and a job)Straight



I'm right there with the family and RL real time is getting less and less and yet to even maintain any pace with the game requires more and more of the little time I have to PLAY.

With this proposed crap I will have to make a choice eve or life and sorry CCP but your game is nothing more than writing up help files for people and informing them of correct game mechanics.

Why should I pay for the privilege of documenting your game and when it comes to it spend 20 hours or more trying ( as I never appear to succeed ) to do something fun.

you have taken so many nights and days over the years just to crap on me from a height then have the audacity to ask me for a report just so you can improve how fast and consistently you can curl a new stinking whopper out.