These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Vaffel Junior
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2481 - 2014-10-02 04:59:57 UTC
R.I.P EVE

It was a good game.
It is time for me to spend my money elsewhere.

Gratz to goons.. you won this game . Enjoy
Onictus
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2482 - 2014-10-02 05:03:59 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
KanmanDS wrote:
While these changes MAY be necessary to get the capital ship situation under control, these jump fatigue mechanics should NOT apply to sub-capitals ships. Sub capital ships using their Alliance jump bridges or black ops fleets sneaking around to cause shinanigans is NOT a problem in this game. No one's empire is collapsing to ashes due to unrelenting black ops fleets, and no one wants to hold a Sunday Night Black Ops fleet with 45 minute interludes between drops.

What if you try to launch a fleet for PVP roam and some of your guys have used the jump bridge recently. If your route intended to go through the bridge, go roam, then return home through the bridge, your fleet members may have a wide range of very different jump delay timers when it is time to return.

Forcing the 'everyman' in to more dangerous or time-consuming situations to accomplish 'everday activities' within the game will only frustrate young/new players, deminishing new-player retention.

MAYBE this mechanic makes sense for capitals. Maybe just super-capitals. But definitely DO NOT do this to pilots in sub-capital ships.


Right, because the CFC using their JB network to move 1500 megathrons to a timer fight totally isn't causing any problems in the game.



Yeah the issues is fuel, they aren't so hot at having the LO to GET those 1500 ships moved handy. Lol
Wolfe copying
Naked Industries.
#2483 - 2014-10-02 05:04:51 UTC
Shocking changes never mind good luck ccp your need it

Current Subscription
1 Month EVE subscription - Cancelled
Account Expires
04 November 2014 - 5:29 am UTC (in 33 days)

Calando
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2484 - 2014-10-02 05:04:59 UTC
Lishana Skjem wrote:
Truth is mechanic's aside the stagnation that EVE experiences today is experiencing today is a result of the NBSI policy that the vast majority of Null alliances adhere to and now CCP has to come up with mechanics to somehow fix what is really a problem with the null sec players mindset.

Basically you have the leadership of null sec unable to change the way they do things so their asking for CCP to fix it for them but i'm sure as just in the past it won't matter what CCP does if the leadership of null sec isn't willing to change how they operate and view people outside of their alliances using their space then there will be nothing but stagnation.

The policy of NBSI and those who follow it is basically that by doing the same thing over and over they expect a different result and it just doesn't work that way. If you all let people in your space and shot those in your neighbors space you'd all have plenty of gud fights. If this is what everyone in null was doing then we wouldn't even be having this threadnaught
I logged on solely to quote this person for truth.
Kalissis
#2485 - 2014-10-02 05:07:39 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Kalissis wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Sakura Nihil wrote:
The last several pages have been consistent in their message of "these changes are making life harder for logistics pilots".

[...]

As an aside, I understand that from a personal level, a lot of people have invested time and money into being logistics pilots with JFs, good JDC skills, and all that. Anytime a nerf happens that hits you where you spent SP and ISK, it hurts. But I hope that you and everyone else out there in the same boat will see that we need to make the universe big once again.

Besides, there's always opportunity in these changes... last time I checked, there were cloaky haulers that can ferry loot to and from trade hubs quickly. If people can no longer transport items via JF (easy mode), maybe there's money to be made in a new market? Maybe an EVE version of Western Union?


[...]

And all the idiots saying they used to supply nullsec with Indy/freighter convoys before there we're jump drives - that was before the warp speed changes. There is no way in hell I would pay to play a game that required me to jump a freighter at 5+ min per system 30+ jumps into hostile space. There is no fun to be had there.


There is an answer right there in your text, if its far away what you need then move there, problem solved, and if you think that NULL cant support building T1 hulls, well go and read some of eve uni wikis. Now you say you need to build T2 blablabla... how about adjusting to the new system, if you wont someone else will. Its really simple, most of the heavy stuff you can acquire in NULL everything else you can ship in.


Yes, I totally see people in nullsec flying primarily T1 hulls...not. I'm not saying you can't do it, but if I have 10 hours per week to play eve and I used to get to spend 9 hours doing something I find fun and 1 hour on tedious logistics work, and now I find that I'm spending 8 hours on tedious logistics and have 2 hours left for fun it's probably time to move on to some game where the devs are a bit less clueless.


So what you are saying is that you dont have anyone else doing some of the "workload", see you are playing eve wrong. if you do 8 hours logistics, why dont you do something fun instead? Like RvB fleets! Let someone competent do the not so fun things as you say it.

And yes, goons for example have a T1 doctrine they fly, so NULL will use T1 more, NULL will adopt. And logistics should be "per player" and not loaded to someone alone for the whole 10k Players allinace, because see whats the point in not having fun in EVE. If you dont have fun, as I said before, you are doing it wrong.
Sushi Nardieu
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#2486 - 2014-10-02 05:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Sushi Nardieu
Q1)

Have you guys thought of capitals/supers using gate aggression as a way to avoid combat? Will there be new mechanics to prevent this playstyle? What is to stop a giant ball of capitals around a gate and using it as a strong escape mechanism? Is that intended design?

Problem: In this world of limited jump drives, it takes a lot to kill supers. Tackle them. Keep them in position for backup. Will being able to use gates aggression mechanics benefit the quality of the game? I am unsure.

Suggestions could be HIC points stop capitals from jumping maybe. (Scripted or not). Perhaps give them a special sort of aggression like 5 minutes. Equal to triage or siege timers.

Or maybe affect supers only making them vulnerable without support. While vanilla caps can be left unaffected.

The Guns of Knowledge 

KanashiiKami
#2487 - 2014-10-02 05:08:59 UTC  |  Edited by: KanashiiKami
1) for 1, i think that restrictions to the reach of capitals is good. the example of "Bobby tables" in the dev blog means with any activation of a cap going out for a long walk, will effectively restrict it to a somewhat 3 jump affair. its like converting it into a chess piece on a chess board with a range of 3 squares a day. i hope DEV will be considering upping the firepower balance when the "restrictions" come into play as mobility is reduced.

BUT ... why not just introduce a new skill to train? instead of going thru all these 5LY maths with alot of trailing decimals, do a space-jump-ologic skill. max number of jumps a capital can do in 24 hours is 2 for any pilot, after each jump is a mandatory 10min CD (cumulative effects applies from previous jump). so 2nd jump = 10x10 = 100 minutes CD. jump-ologic skill reduces the base fatiqued time by 1 minute per level, AND, at level 3, adds 1 more jump extension, at level 5 adds the 4th jump extension. so if the pilot uses all 4 jumps at max skill he gives himself the 24hr limit cd PLUS the fatique cd (5x5x5x5). JF etc cap ships negates these effects completely.

2) by enabling use of normal gates, cap ships will just become like the usual roam group, going from system to system, it will become the NEW NORM of power reaching extension in a different way. it defeats the purpose of jump-fatique mechanics ENTIRELY, SO the use of GATES should NOT BE in play at the SAME time IF the pilot is able to JUMP.

i propose the DEV consider an EITHER/OR mechanism. a CAP ship is either in jump mode OR gate mode, switching over to either mode is a 24hour cd penalty, and the ship has to be docked to do the switch. (of course non-combat cap ships escape this limitation). look at it this way, maybe DEV will extend this into a MODULE item, you either arm your ship to gate travel or jump travel. JF-ish ships are armed to do both, maybe combat vessels require an extra lo-slot module?

3) i think in addition to the above mechanics, the DEV should also consider a JUMPING countdown timer related to total mass (with the usual jump fatique-ish multiplier advantage for JF/Rorq). DEV could probably insert the mechanics for normal warp alignment to this, ie : the ship aligns before being able to execute jump (and therefore can be interrupted mid-way of alignment). and by this, the graphic department can come up with a new (literally) blinding JUMP effect, the after shock of jumping, creates a few seconds of electronic paralysis in a 50km radius ! (<--- now this, a new use of jump after effect as combat strategy could be fun) ... now for this shock wave, i will be happy if the radius is calculated with decimals according to the ship total mass.

i am curious how many hours of testing is done before a real patch? 10 days ?

edit : while many have said, good luck warping around caps thru heavily bubbled gates. in this change if cap ships do use gates effectively, i dont think they are suppose to travel alone. like a normal US carrier fleet on the ocean, the carrier MUST have support ships. then again, multiboxers will be quite happy to warp 50 caps around gate to gate. who the heck can effectively gate camp a large fleet popping up like that? in fact, if caps use gates, gate camps will be forced to use other tactics, gate camping WITH cap ships waiting on station ! Twisted

WUT ???

Kromarx
Eau Rouge
#2488 - 2014-10-02 05:09:16 UTC
For everyone that's leaving, trade me your caps and I'll melt them down into something useful.
Kalissis
#2489 - 2014-10-02 05:09:29 UTC
Vaffel Junior wrote:
R.I.P EVE

It was a good game.
It is time for me to spend my money elsewhere.

Gratz to goons.. you won this game . Enjoy


You lost. they havent won. See the difference.
Btw. can i have your stuff?
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#2490 - 2014-10-02 05:12:47 UTC
Dreiden Kisada wrote:
Burl en Daire wrote:



OCCUPANCY-BASED SOVEREIGNTY has been the mantra of many null alliances and when they give it to them by restricting ranges they begin to complain that they can't survive because their logistics can't manage. OCCUPANCY-BASED means you own it because you occupy and use the space. CCP have given them what they wanted with Phase one. I think what they really want is lower EHP structures so they can run all over smaller groups more easily because the way I see it this is a buff to smaller and medium sized alliances.



Occupancy-based Sovereignty doesn't mean chaining caps to home base. It means making systems able to support a higher concentration of people, and requiring active pilots to hold sov.

This isn't occupancy-based sov. If you leave to go do some other stuff, the reds can't jump in caps to take your space.



It does, it means you do things in the place you live, work and play not in a system across the universe and then be back before supper. The caps can leave and go anywhere but they just can't do it almost instantly or with very little effort or risk. These changes force risk adverse null players to risk it, put it up or do it at home. I am not trying to be insulting but for as much flack as highsec carebears receive it is not much different in null. You know when people are coming into system, your friends can back you up whenever from where ever in hardly anytime at all and most of your neighbors are blue. It is time to take some risks and this change should cause more fights and provide more content to more players overall.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson

OldWolf69
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2491 - 2014-10-02 05:13:36 UTC
Welcome to buying overpriced spaceships in null by buying more plex from CCP. Because logistics will become a real nightmare. Fun to see how few see that this is the real target, and how many idiots like Massadeath think CCP gave them the keys to the kingdom. CCP, i tought i saw most of the stupid things ever already. It's just proven i was wrong. Lol Well, it's not stupid, it's just bad intended towards players and their RL wallets. But betting on people's addiction on a game to get money, if you remove most of the fun they get by playing, it's a really stupid move. This to use a "light" qualificative for your RL jewing abilities.
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#2492 - 2014-10-02 05:14:03 UTC
Sushi Nardieu wrote:
Q1)

Have you guys thought of capitals/supers using gate aggression as a way to avoid combat? Will there be new mechanics to prevent this playstyle? What is to stop a giant ball of capitals around a gate and using it as a strong escape mechanism? Is that intended design?

Problem: In this world of limited jump drives, it takes a lot to kill supers. Tackle them. Keep them in position for backup. Will being able to use gates aggression mechanics benefit the quality of the game? I am unsure.

Suggestions could be HIC points stop capitals from jumping maybe. (Scripted or not). Perhaps give them a special sort of aggression like 5 minutes. Equal to triage or siege timers.

Or maybe affect supers only making them vulnerable without support. While vanilla caps can be left unaffected.


In lowsec maybe, but absent a 1000mn mwd a webbed down capital 20km from a gate is going to have a hell of a time getting back to it.

In nullsec every one of those regional gates that is more than 5 light years between systems will have a 300km sphere of bubbles around them at all times. Have fun warping your cap/super into that
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2493 - 2014-10-02 05:14:10 UTC
Kalissis wrote:


So what you are saying is that you dont have anyone else doing some of the "workload", see you are playing eve wrong. if you do 8 hours logistics, why dont you do something fun instead? Like RvB fleets! Let someone competent do the not so fun things as you say it.

And yes, goons for example have a T1 doctrine they fly, so NULL will use T1 more, NULL will adopt. And logistics should be "per player" and not loaded to someone alone for the whole 10k Players allinace, because see whats the point in not having fun in EVE. If you dont have fun, as I said before, you are doing it wrong.


I am having fun with what remains of my week after logistics is done. After this change, logistics will never be done. I can adapt by finding about 7 other players who each have 4+ accounts (or they'd be overloaded), but if I had that many players who have that many accounts I would not be one of the smaller groups this change is supposed to be helping.
Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#2494 - 2014-10-02 05:14:25 UTC
Wolfe copying wrote:
Shocking changes never mind good luck ccp your need it

Current Subscription
1 Month EVE subscription - Cancelled
Account Expires
04 November 2014 - 5:29 am UTC (in 33 days)


You wont be missed.
Can I have your stuff?
Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#2495 - 2014-10-02 05:15:57 UTC
koopa miner wrote:
The tears... the tears are so delicious. Also, Bet PL won't take their Supers on a roam to lowsec once this change hits.

I love the tears of angry giants.
Kah'Roor
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#2496 - 2014-10-02 05:18:52 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Kalissis wrote:


So what you are saying is that you dont have anyone else doing some of the "workload", see you are playing eve wrong. if you do 8 hours logistics, why dont you do something fun instead? Like RvB fleets! Let someone competent do the not so fun things as you say it.

And yes, goons for example have a T1 doctrine they fly, so NULL will use T1 more, NULL will adopt. And logistics should be "per player" and not loaded to someone alone for the whole 10k Players allinace, because see whats the point in not having fun in EVE. If you dont have fun, as I said before, you are doing it wrong.


I am having fun with what remains of my week after logistics is done. After this change, logistics will never be done. I can adapt by finding about 7 other players who each have 4+ accounts (or they'd be overloaded), but if I had that many players who have that many accounts I would not be one of the smaller groups this change is supposed to be helping.

Weren't you quitting? Oh well, welcome back. I knew you could adapt and thrive.
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2497 - 2014-10-02 05:19:14 UTC
I play eve for the big fights. Now they will be so rare :(

I have more space likes than you. 

Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2498 - 2014-10-02 05:21:31 UTC
Kah'Roor wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Kalissis wrote:


So what you are saying is that you dont have anyone else doing some of the "workload", see you are playing eve wrong. if you do 8 hours logistics, why dont you do something fun instead? Like RvB fleets! Let someone competent do the not so fun things as you say it.

And yes, goons for example have a T1 doctrine they fly, so NULL will use T1 more, NULL will adopt. And logistics should be "per player" and not loaded to someone alone for the whole 10k Players allinace, because see whats the point in not having fun in EVE. If you dont have fun, as I said before, you are doing it wrong.


I am having fun with what remains of my week after logistics is done. After this change, logistics will never be done. I can adapt by finding about 7 other players who each have 4+ accounts (or they'd be overloaded), but if I had that many players who have that many accounts I would not be one of the smaller groups this change is supposed to be helping.

Weren't you quitting? Oh well, welcome back. I knew you could adapt and thrive.


How can I possibly argue with one who has such astute reading comprehension?

Oh wait, it doesn't take any to troll.

But to clarify, I said I will unsub in the unlikely event the JF range nerf happens as specified. My "-8 subs" will wait until then.
OldWolf69
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2499 - 2014-10-02 05:22:54 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
koopa miner wrote:
The tears... the tears are so delicious. Also, Bet PL won't take their Supers on a roam to lowsec once this change hits.

I love the tears of angry giants.

I will laugh my ass off when the "angry giants" will start manipulating your plex prices. I suggest u get a good washing machine, u'll have a lot of dirty underwear to take care of.BlinkLol
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#2500 - 2014-10-02 05:23:54 UTC
\m/ Twisted \m/ hell yeah!!! Looking forward to these changes and all the tears that are dropping.