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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2421 - 2014-10-02 04:19:45 UTC
Neglecting they fact that if you get going you are basically summoning that roving ceptor game.

Well, you won't get blops dropped. Not for a couple hulks.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2422 - 2014-10-02 04:19:56 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Roman Lynch wrote:
You are kinda missing the point. You can't supply half of null sec right now with the range ships have to be able to jump as it is. If you decrease it to 5ly, you wont be able to do it at all

3ppt---> Saminer would be 13 jumps at 5 ly
That would mean in order to move anything to or from 3ppt, you would have to either own 13 systems, or be blue to 12 other alliances, or not live there at all

So being blue or massive is the way to go?

Huh.


It's almost like "there is strength in number" has always been true and will continue to be.

Says someone in a corp and alliance which are both a type of bloc.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH
Scumlords
#2423 - 2014-10-02 04:21:36 UTC
Roman Lynch wrote:
MASSADEATH wrote:
You have to change your mind sets....

you wont be flitting across the galaxy to "deploy" anymore like we have been.... we will be engaged in long term local conflicts with border regions... against enemies who have a vested interest in those areas... you will not be able to hold vast areas anymore..thats the whole point...so dont get your knickers in a knot about supplying far off places.... cause the map will change... the mechanics will support what it can support...current areas of control will change....

YOU WILL BE DOING EVERYTHING IN A LOCAL SENSE


what happens across eve wont matter...cause your ability to deploy there quickly will be limited...what does matter is working with allies to set up timers and fleets to draw your enemies into "choices"... defend...split fleets....or stay...move....use JFB(jump fatigue bait) ..the possibilities are endless...use gates? or risk more jump fatigue....

and hopefully it will have a side effect of decentralizing JITA as well....since many tears seem to be coming from haulers who have it easy in the current jump mechanics....

ohh and if the goons keep unsubbing..we can just walk in soon and take your goodies without any fights :) so keep up the tear hose goonies and CFC... its a wonderful day in eve when the goons on one hand are saying this is going to help us...and on the other hand the players who did not get the memo on how to talk on the forums..are crying they will unsub thier accounts...

IMO this is a great small alliance win...(alliances that are mostly fixed in position) nomadic alliances of course that are cap heavy will have to come to realize that the galaxy has got much bigger and they will have to narrow their field of operations...

PURE GOLD!!!!










You are kinda missing the point. You can't supply half of null sec right now with the range ships have to be able to jump as it is. If you decrease it to 5ly, you wont be able to do it at all

3ppt---> Saminer would be 13 jumps at 5 ly
That would mean in order to move anything to or from 3ppt, you would have to either own 13 systems, or be blue to 12 other alliances, or not live there at all



ohh I totally understand... you may not have noticed....since you guys use your JB networks..... THAT MOST OF NULL IS VAST UNUSED EMPTY SPACE AS IT IS...go for a roam.. you have a better chance some days of getting killed by rats then meeting up with an enemy...

so who cares if you can supply far off regions....this will force consolodation..and concentration...all of which are good....

THE MAPS WILL CHANGE
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#2424 - 2014-10-02 04:21:56 UTC
BrokenBC wrote:
Tribalist wrote:
What bothers me is the lack of respect CCP shows it's player/ customer base.

To start a DEV Blog where CCP responds top comments with "We'll have to look at that" or "We'll need to consider that" it becomes apparent they gave the actual mechanics very little thought.

What was this Wild Ass Idea Wednesday?
Did you decide to tell your customers, we want to take your investment in our product, your time and money and make it useless?

Your initial jump fatigue numbers as shown in a couple of player given examples, 20 LY jump which is not excessive (does not move you across the galaxy etc..) takes hours to accomplish and over a week before you can return unless you want to take gates back. Eve is a game, it's not a second job. To Paraphrase James Carville - Bill Clintons Campaign Strategist - It's a Game, Stupid.

GENIUS! (That's Sarcasm, I'm pointing it out because after reading the Dev Blog I felt it might be necessary)

Now, to all the Tear collectors, Have a laugh. But it's not about us vs. them. It's about people feeling passionately about a game we all play. It will be a poorer experience for all of us if a large percentage leave.


I read the article in TMC about the "Come to Jesus" moment, and this has the potential for that in two very different ways.
#1. CCP creates a new way to play, possibly having Jump Drive Spool Down timers (5 minutes to a max of 10 Minutes) and who knows, possibly even letting Caps jump through Null and Low Sec gates.
#2. Customers realize that CCP as a company has no respect for their time or money invested into CCP's product and act accordingly. For me that would be inactivating my accounts until I feel that the game is something I want to play again.

The majority of the Posts in this thread demonstrate a passion and a commitment to this game, and the reaction displayed is one of anger, outrage and hurt because we the average EVE player feels invested in the game.

Please CCP Fix the game, but don't break it or disrespect us while doing it.


Great post Yo.



you do realize the devs are human right? They may have more information then we do, but they do not, and can not, play eve as deeply and in ways we do. There was a story by the CEO about how jet canning mining was never thought to be a thing. We the players invented it. There was also once a nerf and a change that brought on the nano ships and nearly impossible to catch vegas. When the ESS was introduced CCP did not think we would use it in WH's as a way to tell us when someone comes in. They can not think of everything, because that's not how it works. You specialize or do certin task everyday, so you think everyday about said task. A dev just sees the big picture not a nuance. But then saying 'oh we did not think of that' is legit and true, because they prolly did not. For example, they prolly never considered that deep null would use the death clone mechanic to get someone out there. Hell i personally never thought of that and i have played this game like a second job for 10+ years now. We have the smartest most devious and cunning player base around. Other games should FEAR EVE players, as we have played the most complex mmo on the market and can work our way around it. We are the hive mind, and we can easily out think a few devs if we focus.

Its not so much a lack of respect, its more of a 'you guys are way smarter then we think sometimes' its a damn complement.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Syndic Thrass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2425 - 2014-10-02 04:22:08 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
MASSADEATH wrote:
OHHH you mean like the 800 man blob you put together today in EWOK to defend a infrastructure hub that was RF...and we basically did not form cause we only had 120 to counter it.... those kind of big fights..the kind of fights where you use the leveraged advantage of

YOUR NUMBERS
BROKEN SOV
BROKEN FORCE PROJECTION...stemming from , shared JB network, Titans, huge jump range....

well dropping a 800 man fleet that you collect from across the galaxy in minutes to pound a 100man fleet that has local interests is not the kind of fights we want.

So i guess yes we have different visions of the what the game should be :)

You seem really unhappy about something....

Would it have helped if you had vince draken on the batphone?


As well as mistaken about the rules governing capitalization in the English Language. It'll be really funny watching local interest find out what happens to GSF subscription numbers when someone thinks they can mess with VF... YA0. Good luck taking fortress Deklein.

Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8
Pandora Myuki
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#2426 - 2014-10-02 04:22:17 UTC
So basically CCP can't fix the lag like we had in B-R so they will make it an Interceptor only game which will eliminate the lag because every other ship will be will be useless in the long run. So will you let Supers and Titans dock up then as well? No offense CCP, but you will effectively kill Null sec and Eve in general with this change. Next change they will probably only let 25 ships in a system at a time. Nice Job! See you all in Arch Age.
Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#2427 - 2014-10-02 04:23:36 UTC
I am not sure what to say, I both love and hate the concept. It should make getting into and out of position for the fragile renters near impossible My two short terms out there were screwed up by massive instability in the Alliance our Corp joined to gain null sec access and decamping with carriers as transports was necessary to avoid huge losses. We also depended on that route to bring in supplies to a poorly stocked station.

On the other side we lost a carrier to a Titan "because I can" gank which probably would be rarer if they would be pinned out of postion for a day with jump fatigue.

I am sure people have covered the fact that moving a carrier gate to gate is like saying please blow up my ship, unless you have complete control of space (which may be more possible if bat phones are now short range).
Kalissis
#2428 - 2014-10-02 04:23:49 UTC
Sakura Nihil wrote:
The last several pages have been consistent in their message of "these changes are making life harder for logistics pilots".

Yes, they will. That's part of the point. From the looks of it, CCP is trying to push nullsec groups into mining, refining, and building locally in nullsec, rather than getting everything you need in highsec and shipping it out to nullsec for consumption. That was part of the though with the Crius industry changes, to reprocessing in particular.

It makes perfect sense why they're doing it, too. Much of nullsec sits unused, despite being "owned", and the resources out there could fuel local economies, T2 / T3 production, the whole nine yards. Yet, people enjoy the convenience of loading up a JF in Jita and jumping off back to null for one-stop shopping. If you kneecap near-instant logistics, you suddenly create local demands that can be satisfied by manufacturers in nullsec.

Also, keep in mind, if the current vision for EVE pans out, within a few years we're going to be moving out into unknown space, colonizing new systems, opening new stargates, and the like. On the frontier, you harvest resources available to you, rather than running back to developed space for everything you need.

As an aside, I understand that from a personal level, a lot of people have invested time and money into being logistics pilots with JFs, good JDC skills, and all that. Anytime a nerf happens that hits you where you spent SP and ISK, it hurts. But I hope that you and everyone else out there in the same boat will see that we need to make the universe big once again.

Besides, there's always opportunity in these changes... last time I checked, there were cloaky haulers that can ferry loot to and from trade hubs quickly. If people can no longer transport items via JF (easy mode), maybe there's money to be made in a new market? Maybe an EVE version of Western Union?


+1 spot on here, really deep and all there is to it, if you dont play eve (by that you are not playing eve if you only logging in when pinged on jabber, "telepprt" to the other end of the galaxy, and be back 1hour later to keep on not playing eve) you will not be able to really enjoy eve to its fullest. Eve is not about pushing F1 when told, its about working towards a goal and when reaching it, getting the most beautiful reward there is in online gaming!
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#2429 - 2014-10-02 04:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Andiedeath
LOVE IT! Well, there are obivously some caviats required like JFs and Black Ops. Smaller groups will actually be able to plan events based on minimum responce times of known hostile fleets etc...

I'd be interested to see how big this thread gets.... 100+ pages for the mass based spawn... So I'm guessing 1000 for this one?

Although TBH I think this change along with the others hinted for the next few releases will shake up Null Sec. Great Job CCP!

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2430 - 2014-10-02 04:24:14 UTC
Sral TBear wrote:
Remember how you did it the old days, this will be just like that. So the game is not evolving, its actualy rolling back Question

Eve is a sandbox, you just have to adapt. Well i have done that since 2005, but i cant adapt to get more RL time to play the game Sad

Ha ha cap pilot tears are the best tears. Ya proberbly, but stil sux to loose the one asset we had so we could live in 0.0 as a small corpWhat?

Again, i have been changing play style since 2005, every hick up, every "awsome" change, in general they have not toutched the one thing i cant do anything about, RL time to play the game. Over the years they actualy made it a tad easyer. I will wait and se, but these changes might be that one magical drop in the glassRoll

Kinda sux getting a felling about being forced out of a game because i want to keep a RL to. (Im a semi old fart with family and a job)Straight





This exactly. These changes do not make it harder for me to play - they make it impossible. I will unsub over the JF nerf because I have no choice.

Those suggesting we produce locally in 0.0 or use blockade runners are ignorance incarnate, dancing around on stilts wearing clown costumes.
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#2431 - 2014-10-02 04:24:40 UTC
Sakura Nihil wrote:
The last several pages have been consistent in their message of "these changes are making life harder for logistics pilots".

Yes, they will. That's part of the point. From the looks of it, CCP is trying to push nullsec groups into mining, refining, and building locally in nullsec, rather than getting everything you need in highsec and shipping it out to nullsec for consumption. That was part of the though with the Crius industry changes, to reprocessing in particular.

It makes perfect sense why they're doing it, too. Much of nullsec sits unused, despite being "owned", and the resources out there could fuel local economies, T2 / T3 production, the whole nine yards. Yet, people enjoy the convenience of loading up a JF in Jita and jumping off back to null for one-stop shopping. If you kneecap near-instant logistics, you suddenly create local demands that can be satisfied by manufacturers in nullsec.

Also, keep in mind, if the current vision for EVE pans out, within a few years we're going to be moving out into unknown space, colonizing new systems, opening new stargates, and the like. On the frontier, you harvest resources available to you, rather than running back to developed space for everything you need.

As an aside, I understand that from a personal level, a lot of people have invested time and money into being logistics pilots with JFs, good JDC skills, and all that. Anytime a nerf happens that hits you where you spent SP and ISK, it hurts. But I hope that you and everyone else out there in the same boat will see that we need to make the universe big once again.

Besides, there's always opportunity in these changes... last time I checked, there were cloaky haulers that can ferry loot to and from trade hubs quickly. If people can no longer transport items via JF (easy mode), maybe there's money to be made in a new market? Maybe an EVE version of Western Union?



OCCUPANCY-BASED SOVEREIGNTY has been the mantra of many null alliances and when they give it to them by restricting ranges they begin to complain that they can't survive because their logistics can't manage. OCCUPANCY-BASED means you own it because you occupy and use the space. CCP have given them what they wanted with Phase one. I think what they really want is lower EHP structures so they can run all over smaller groups more easily because the way I see it this is a buff to smaller and medium sized alliances.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson
Doppleganger
Federated Holdings
#2432 - 2014-10-02 04:25:30 UTC
Damn young whippersnappers.... back in my day we had to move cargo 30+ jumps through 0.0 one way in our Iteron Vs and we glad for all the massive cargo space we had in our ships to bring in supplies and to bring ores back out on our return trip.


But serious I'm interested in seeing how this all plays out.... after all these yrs you think you have seen it all and then out of no where flies a new curve ball.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2433 - 2014-10-02 04:27:01 UTC
Innominate wrote:
Dear CCP,

Why do you keep letting Greyscale work on nullsec mechanics? No CCP developer has a longer and more storied history of making bad changes to nullsec. He has no understanding of why nullsec works the way it does or how a given change will affect it. Worse, he seems to believe that he does.

These changes make power projection more painful and a bit slower, again promoting those players willing to endure the worst Eve has to offer. They successfully stop the fast reaction capital fleets from crossing the galaxy but at a great cost to everything else in nullsec, and have little effect on the ability of capital fleets to show up on a schedule.

These changes are not the power projection nerf advertised. They are being used to backdoor revamp nullsec into some 2005 era "freighter escort ops" vision of nullsec that nobody wants except for the people who want to see nullsec dead.

Can someone maybe convince Riot to hire Greyscale for the sake of Eve?


Greyscale should be detailed to work on walking in stations.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2434 - 2014-10-02 04:27:14 UTC
Hehehe, this could quite nicely balance out the latest industry and reprocessing changes :)

But petty schadenfreude aside, while i would never dare to go about this in this fashion, atleast it is consistent with the only reason the game actually works for that many people, isolated pockets of players.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2435 - 2014-10-02 04:28:18 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Roman Lynch wrote:
You are kinda missing the point. You can't supply half of null sec right now with the range ships have to be able to jump as it is. If you decrease it to 5ly, you wont be able to do it at all

3ppt---> Saminer would be 13 jumps at 5 ly
That would mean in order to move anything to or from 3ppt, you would have to either own 13 systems, or be blue to 12 other alliances, or not live there at all

So being blue or massive is the way to go?

Huh.


It's almost like "there is strength in number" has always been true and will continue to be.

Says someone in a corp and alliance which are both a type of bloc.


I never said it was a bad thing for this rule to apply.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#2436 - 2014-10-02 04:28:40 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Changes are ok i guess. But 5ly is too harsh. Also you are going to lose a ton of players from this change. this is actually something people quit over. Eve does not have the player base to with stand this. If we had 50K+ people online sure but 20k online? lol rip



18K currently, I haven't seen it pushing much over 28 in forever.


then you don;t pay attention, it was 40k online on the 28th

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
BrokenBC
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2437 - 2014-10-02 04:30:26 UTC
MASSADEATH wrote:
BrokenBC wrote:
MASSADEATH wrote:
You have to change your mind sets....

you wont be flitting across the galaxy to "deploy" anymore like we have been.... we will be engaged in long term local conflicts with border regions... against enemies who have a vested interest in those areas... you will not be able to hold vast areas anymore..thats the whole point...so dont get your knickers in a knot about supplying far off places.... cause the map will change... the mechanics will support what it can support...current areas of control will change....

YOU WILL BE DOING EVERYTHING IN A LOCAL SENSE


what happens across eve wont matter...cause your ability to deploy there quickly will be limited...what does matter is working with allies to set up timers and fleets to draw your enemies into "choices"... defend...split fleets....or stay...move....use JFB(jump fatigue bait) ..the possibilities are endless...use gates? or risk more jump fatigue....

and hopefully it will have a side effect of decentralizing JITA as well....since many tears seem to be coming from haulers who have it easy in the current jump mechanics....

ohh and if the goons keep unsubbing..we can just walk in soon and take your goodies without any fights :) so keep up the tear hose goonies and CFC... its a wonderful day in eve when the goons on one hand are saying this is going to help us...and on the other hand the players who did not get the memo on how to talk on the forums..are crying they will unsub thier accounts...

IMO this is a great small alliance win...(alliances that are mostly fixed in position) nomadic alliances of course that are cap heavy will have to come to realize that the galaxy has got much bigger and they will have to narrow their field of operations...

PURE GOLD!!!!










That is the game play YOU want. Not me I want giant fights with big ships and lots of people. I want long drawn out wars not more little ity bity border skirmishes. That dose not interest me in the least.




OHHH you mean like the 800 man blob you put together today in EWOK to defend a infrastructure hub that was RF...and we basically did not form cause we only had 120 to counter it.... those kind of big fights..the kind of fights where you use the leveraged advantage of

YOUR NUMBERS
BROKEN SOV
BROKEN FORCE PROJECTION...stemming from , shared JB network, Titans, huge jump range....

well dropping a 800 man fleet that you collect from across the galaxy in minutes to pound a 100man fleet that has local interests is not the kind of fights we want.

So i guess yes we have different visions of the what the game should be :)





Bro that's a bad example I Took gates to get there. That was one of the little bity border skirmish's I said I didnt like. In what world should a little tiny corp hope to beat a large coalition? get some friends friend.
Sigras
Conglomo
#2438 - 2014-10-02 04:30:40 UTC
AssandTits wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Edgarr Friendly wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something but surely this just makes the bigger corps/alliances stronger?

You take over a corner of space, you only need to protect the borders because nobody has the range to jump in beyond you, and if they do they are stuck with such large timers that you can activate your defense fleet and destroy them before they can get away. which allows you to have minimal forces within the boundary where you can rent away or operate with impunity.

I'm still waiting to see how small corps alliances benefit

You're goonswarm, and you hold space from Deklein to delve.

You're currently deploying a defensive fleet in XCBK-X. You go to bed the night after Phoebe has launched and wake up the next morning to several mails about your systems under attack. among them, K8X-6B in Vale of the silent, and PDE-U3 in delve.

Yesterday you could have just cynoed into K8X with your massive fleet, RR'ed the structures and then taken an hour or two to get to PDE in delve.

Today however you must log in your second or third PVP alt to defend both.

TL;DR
I am a scrub publord who has no ******* clue as to what I am commenting on derppppaderpderp GRR Goons.

Adjusted that for you, you poor single account poor.

Thats still splitting your fleet as presumably you would have had both accounts in the mindless battle where a single pilot's input has no effect on the outcome of the battle.
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH
Scumlords
#2439 - 2014-10-02 04:32:40 UTC
Syndic Thrass wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
MASSADEATH wrote:
OHHH you mean like the 800 man blob you put together today in EWOK to defend a infrastructure hub that was RF...and we basically did not form cause we only had 120 to counter it.... those kind of big fights..the kind of fights where you use the leveraged advantage of

YOUR NUMBERS
BROKEN SOV
BROKEN FORCE PROJECTION...stemming from , shared JB network, Titans, huge jump range....

well dropping a 800 man fleet that you collect from across the galaxy in minutes to pound a 100man fleet that has local interests is not the kind of fights we want.

So i guess yes we have different visions of the what the game should be :)

You seem really unhappy about something....

Would it have helped if you had vince draken on the batphone?


As well as mistaken about the rules governing capitalization in the English Language. It'll be really funny watching local interest find out what happens to GSF subscription numbers when someone thinks they can mess with VF... YA0. Good luck taking fortress Deklein.



EXACTLY... you will have to choose.... keep your local turf safe... and let far off places and your CFC pets die... or spread your forces thin..and hope you can hold against the local forces

thats the whole point... worst case we deal with you in the same numbers as now,,,and our allies rip apart your pets in every other region...

its a win win.,...
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#2440 - 2014-10-02 04:33:48 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Everything old is new again.


lol... indeed. How ever did null sec survive before Jump Drives?

On a more serious note: The logistical changes this will introduce are huge, intended, yes, but huge. How do you plan to work this into the lore of the game? "and suddenly X happened and all jump capable ships suffered."?

How is jumping through a gate different from jumping via a jump drive? And if they are identical, how do you avoid fatigue with one and not the other? Smile

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.