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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#381 - 2014-10-01 18:15:00 UTC
Chinicata Shihari wrote:
I know you wouldn't do this but just to show the facts

Spreadsheets are good for the mind https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IjH2JyeTd0suTC43REymnoiD2TF70HxbkRWqNtJjqds/edit#gid=0

yes that is 2.43 millennium.


sooo tl;dr: in this blog, CCP doesn't understand exponential growth?

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Arun Tadaruwa
Hotbirds
#382 - 2014-10-01 18:15:09 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Awesome changes. The most powerful ships are no longer the most mobile ones and large powerblocs have to reconsider where they place their forces as they just can't teleport to blob everything anymore.

Will certainly allow smaller groups to field capital ships without being blobbed to death by a superfleet.

Looks like WH people got the last laugh this year. Twisted


Everyone loses, so everyone wins!

I for one welcome our new jump fatigued overlords!

Alt posting because yes.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#383 - 2014-10-01 18:15:15 UTC
I'm having problems with the .1 wording as related to JF's. What would be the max JF LY range?
Nergart
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#384 - 2014-10-01 18:15:25 UTC
so just to ask, how many ppl in CCP have been paid off to get everyone on eve playing Elite dangerous?

as that whats going to happen.

lets do this logically, save money on the codeing here, just delete all the capital ships from the game.

Eve does not have a learning curve, its a learning cliff. Either learn to fly on the way down or its going to be a hard landing
MajorBean
HandelsGilde-De
Outsmarted
#385 - 2014-10-01 18:15:31 UTC
Survival of the Fittest.





You know the game.
Aryndel Vyst
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#386 - 2014-10-01 18:15:35 UTC
I love how the people lauding this change are all of the high sec pubbies that mine rocks all day or shoot red crosses. Tell us more about how great this is for a change that won't impact your bubble of safety at all?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#387 - 2014-10-01 18:15:37 UTC
I was hoping for something like 60s before you can jump to a cyno, 60s cancellable 'spin up' on jumping.

when is mwd aligning getting fixed?

and why no jump freighter nerf?
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#388 - 2014-10-01 18:15:38 UTC
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#389 - 2014-10-01 18:15:40 UTC
The Cue wrote:
Will warp speeds be adjusted? Capitals warp exceptionally slow as it is.

Will supers and titans be able to jump through gates or only capitals? I like the idea that supers are totally restricted by jump fatigue while capitals can project themselves farther.


Probably not, no.

Yes, all ships.

Noelle Civire wrote:

How about just take jump fatigue and give blackops a bonus obviating most of it? How about make a cyno have a mass limit? How about limit the distance of an "apex force" by further increasing fuel consumption and making jump fuel optimizer mods available as lowslots for all capitals? Make parties have to dump their fuel mods to refit & deal with jump fatigue & deal with multiple fleets/cynos due to mass limits. Coupled together it creates a logistic nightmare for large entities to move without hurting smaller entities.

How about you freaking measure twice and cut once? For once CCP.. measure twice and put some thought into this. I don't mean 4-6 weeks. I mean 2-3 months before you change the game. Don't experiment. Don't blame it on the blogs or the player base you used as a base line. Don't wait to see how the "meta shifts." Do the real work before you release something.


- Black ops is a thing we're still mulling
- Cyno mass limits mean the alliance willing to create the most cyno alts wins, this is not a good thing to incentivize.
- Things like fuel use and mods and the like are soft limits that don't actually solve the problem, they just make it more expensive*
- Refitting in a cap fleet is pretty trivial even witohut mobile depots
- There's not that more to measure - we've had a good long think about this, we think it's the right thing to do, but EVE is a sufficiently complex system that there's no way to know what the outcome is without shipping it to TQ, and a few extra months of theorycrafting won't change that fact, unfortunately.

Needmore Longcat wrote:
Can we buy PLEX to make the timer go down faster? Or make in-app purchases on a mobile application?


No.

Coreemo wrote:
Also, the whole "fix" to deathcloning is a really bad idea. We need SOME way to quickly deploy to a hot area that requires it.


Why? (Serious question.)

Insidious wrote:
getting the general gist of this it hurts the little guy a bit too much


*Every* controversial change hurts the little guy too much. It's good that all the big guys are there to look out for them.

Nova Fox wrote:
So...

1. Jump Ship
2. Clone Exits Ship
3. Fresh Clone Enters Ship
4. Jump Ship
5. Exited Clone Body Jumps Home
6. Rinse Repeat Until destination.


The actual logistics of doing this for a reasonable range of target systems are sufficiently involved that we do not expect it to happen in practice.

Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
How closely have you considered the impact of the jump shock stacking to primarily black-ops PVP groups? Those pilots will be taking black ops bridges from target to target accruing high amounts of the jump penalty.

When I think of power projection problems, small gang black ops bombers and recons are not the kind of thing I think of.


It's still a thing we're looking at; further discussion on this topic is something we're interested in.

Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
Hang on... I just did some maths on your devblog example...

After jumping those 17.5 light years in 4 jumps, your example person has 706.74 jump fatigue... Unless I'm doing my maths wrong, it's going to take almost FIVE DAYS for that penalty to go away again.

What the hell.


Your maths are correct.

Toriessian wrote:
Can CCP just give a clear yes/no on whether or not eviscerating the Black Ops fleet doctrine is intended? I've trained 3 accounts specifically to support running and doing the logistics for these fleets.

I don't want to waste my time/breath if the black ops drop is being mechanically removed from the game.





Not a primary goal, no. See above re discussing this further. We don't want to give BO a carte blanche, but there is a reasonable balance to be struck somewhere.
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#390 - 2014-10-01 18:15:42 UTC  |  Edited by: X ATM092
It is theoretically possible to compound the fatigue up into years of jump delay with fewer than a dozen actual jumps, simply by not allowing the fatigue to decay between each early jump but rather jumping as soon as possible. After the first few days of decay make little difference because the decay is linear and the increase in fatigue is multiplicative. If you wanted to you could completely incapacitate a character with this, for example selling a titan toon on the bazaar which is disallowed from jumping for years.

Your decay formula needs to be modified to reduce a percentage of the total fatigue per hour, rather than a fixed amount.

Edit: I calculated 6VDT to VFK by Aeon to take a little over 7 months if you jumped as soon as possible each time (obviously it would take less time if you waited for the fatigue to decay to 0 after each first jump).
Eveli
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#391 - 2014-10-01 18:15:43 UTC
Exciting changes, looking forward to roaming in a titan

Follow me on the Twitters : @ThisIsEveli
Clolo
Perkone
Caldari State
#392 - 2014-10-01 18:15:54 UTC
I may have missed it but is there jump fatigue for using a titan bridge or a jump bridge?
Prince Kobol
#393 - 2014-10-01 18:16:04 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
True Sight wrote:
Bacchanalian wrote:
Tell me whose babies I need to have. This is amazing. Finally a chance to shake up nullsec for the smaller fish in the pond using proper guerrilla tactics.


Except, the big fish will just install a capital fleet in every region, ready to use whenever they need it, the large coalitions/alliances have enough capital (hah, punn) to simply put 500 dreads and carriers in every single low/sec/npc null in eve.

the "smaller fish" won't afford that, so they will still be hell-camped.


So the smaller fish will only have to deal with 500 caps rather than the entire supercap + capfleet. Sounds more manageable to me.



who other then the CFC and NC can field 500 subcaps?
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#394 - 2014-10-01 18:16:33 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Awesome changes. The most powerful ships are no longer the most mobile ones and large powerblocs have to reconsider where they place their forces as they just can't teleport to blob everything anymore.


They also took away the mobility of the black ops fleet which is distinctly NOT comprised of the largest and most powerful ships in the game.

Every day I'm wafflin!
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#395 - 2014-10-01 18:16:44 UTC
#AGMARMONEYTEAM
Arun Tadaruwa
Hotbirds
#396 - 2014-10-01 18:16:46 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

sooo tl;dr: in this blog, CCP doesn't understand exponential growth?


TL;DR if you're an idiot you're getting bent
same as always with clones, innit?

Alt posting because yes.
Ravenssong
Yeti Galactic
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
#397 - 2014-10-01 18:17:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ravenssong
What can I say? This is a stupid idea on it's face. Null is stagnant so lets just see what we can do to make it even more stagnant and while we are at it lets just F$&K BLOPS all to H#ll.

Well done, CCP. I was wondering if I should keep three active accounts and you have just answerd that question.

WAIT! This is a ploy to get people to keep multiple accounts so they can avoid these penalties, isn't it?

Whatever... Closing two accounts. Will keep one for a while. Roll

What this really is is CCPs response to their inability to fix ****. Tidi, there is a great idea. Let's not actually FIX our broke ass server model, let's do TiDi. So here we are again. CCP hammered in these most recent large engagements but CCP STILL doesn't feel like FIXING their **** server model, so we are going to make it so that big battles just can't happen at all.

Good thinking... well done.
Immortal Chrono Pimpin
Codename-47
Avocado Cartel
#398 - 2014-10-01 18:17:34 UTC
CCP 2013-2014 making changes to kill the game,

1. This will kill cap use
2. Do you know how many people are already unsubbing?
3. Thanks for making blackops useless with this

Enjoy losing more than half your players ccp you deserve it.
ic35t0rm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#399 - 2014-10-01 18:17:36 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
I'm having problems with the .1 wording as related to JF's. What would be the max JF LY range?



5LY

Almost all jump-capable ships will have their range reduced to 5 LY after skills;

Jump Freighters and Rorquals will gain a role bonus: 90% reduction to effective range jumped for the purposes of all these calculations, but will otherwise get all the described changes.

community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/long-distance-travel-changes-inbound/
Prince Kobol
#400 - 2014-10-01 18:17:47 UTC
Ravenssong wrote:
What can I say? This is a stupid idea on it's face. Null is stagnant so lets just see what we can do to make it even more stagnant and while we are at it lets just F$&K BLOPS all to H#ll.

Well done, CCP. I was wondering if I should keep three active accounts and you have just answerd that question.

WAIT! This is a ploy to get people to keep multiple accounts so they can avoid these penalties, isn't it?

Whatever... Closing two accounts. Will keep one for a while. Roll


Don't forget completely killing the T2 market