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Dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, One Module At A Time

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#281 - 2014-09-28 16:08:39 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey guys, it's like 7:30pm and I'm about to go be on TV with CCP Guard and co so I can't do a lot right now, but it's safe to say there's some weirdness with the flux coils.

We may switch the restrained so it's actually LESS drawback rather than more, even though both potentially have applications. The way the attributes are titled and communicated in the dev blog is also kind of strange and I'll try to get that cleaned up tomorrow so it's a bit more clear.

All said and done, there's nothing broken going into the game so bear with me for a day while I get the post cleaned up and maybe the restrained attributes adjusted.


what happened then?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#282 - 2014-09-28 16:10:28 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Damn... what made you think that five days was going to be enough to talk about these proposed changes?


especially when CCP aren't doing much talking

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Mokusui
Lazy Brothers Inc
#283 - 2014-09-28 16:29:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mokusui
While the module stat changes have a good chance to produce positive results in the overall usage of the myriad module variations, I am very concerned about the removal of a part of EVE's "flavor" through the overly-aggressive renaming of modules. For instance, one aspect of the Star Wars universe that makes immersion so easy for its fans is the existence of many different corporations, each producing a range of brands and products with distinctive names befitting a capitalist market. The current spate of EVE developers seems intent on approaching EVE like a programming project: standardize names, organize meticulously, and sterilize all. EVE is a messy universe, full of money and blood. Leave in the unique module name permutations, leave in the flavor.
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#284 - 2014-09-28 17:04:08 UTC
I will miss arbelest and malkuth as I still miss the old afterburner and mwd names. The world seemed smaller and less interesting once the names were changed.
Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#285 - 2014-09-28 17:34:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Priscilla Project
Hi!

I would like to bring your attention to the relevant discussions thread in GD, here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=375576&find=unread


A lot of people are not happy with this absolutely crappy idea of yours that will remove
so much depth from the game!


Let me tell you WHY it's a crappy idea, okay?


Back in 2009 when I started playing this game,
my favourite ship was a 10mn AfterBurner Rifter, sporting 250mm Artillery!

Yes, you read that right!


And I loved it! It felt like a freaking muscle car!
Any you wanna know WHY it felt like a muscle car?

Because it had a Y-S8 Hydrocarbon Afterburner!

A Y-S8 HYDROCARBON AFTERBURNER!


Can you imagine how I would have felt fitting a LIMITED 10MN AFTERBURNER onto it?

Is the difference really not that obvious for you?


Why don't we rename all our ships too, when we're at it?
Who needs names anyway, right?

Minmatar Attack Frigate.
Minmatar Combat Frigate.
Minmatar Logistics Frigate.

Why have names like Rifter, Slasher, Breacher, etc ??
What's the point?

If people can just search for "frigate" they get them all listed, right?


Why do you have to make it so hard for people to find ships? How can you expect that
they freaking remember all these names, right?


Yes, I am pissed about how you are ruining the game form the inside,
turning it into a bland, empty, depthless game nobody will care about,
because you remove any emotional value and connection to it!


I idiot stayed silent the last time you did it,
but i will NOT make the same freaking mistake again!


MY rifter felt like a musclecar!

YOUR rifter feels like a worthless piece of crap!
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#286 - 2014-09-28 17:45:34 UTC
And if you still don't freaking get it,
then either ask what the hell you seem to be missing,
or freaking HIRE someone who actually has a connection to the game !

*YOU* certainly have *NONE* !
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Ginger Barbarella
#287 - 2014-09-28 17:54:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
Anyone have any idea if CCP is going to compensate for the loss of invention chance for those of us that use high mets items (meta 2 and 3) in invention? The increase in chance of success is not negligible with the use of meta items, and it seems just another kick to the crotch of Industry if meta 2-4 is going to be vanishing.

Thanks.

Edit: just came across this: New Formula? I'll have to run the math on this...

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Pecora Nera
Perkone
Caldari State
#288 - 2014-09-28 18:22:06 UTC
Priscilla Project wrote:
Hi!


And I loved it! It felt like a freaking muscle car!
Any you wanna know WHY it felt like a muscle car?

Because it had a Y-S8 Hydsocarbon Afterburner!

A Y-S8 HYDROCARGON AFTERBURNER!


Can you imagine how I would have felt fitting a LIMITED 10MN AFTERBURNER onto it?
!


I agree with this rant.

But I strongly suspect that CCP's unstated reason for the great module renaming is not intended to dumb-down the game, but is actually been done to make the localisation to other languages easier (and cheaper).

It's a lot easier to translate "limited" into French (or any given %language% ), and use that for all modules, than to get a meaningful translation of "Y-S8 HYDROCARBON" (and all the other module specific flavour-names.)
Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#289 - 2014-09-28 19:25:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Priscilla Project
Pecora Nera wrote:
Priscilla Project wrote:
Hi!


And I loved it! It felt like a freaking muscle car!
Any you wanna know WHY it felt like a muscle car?

Because it had a Y-S8 Hydsocarbon Afterburner!

A Y-S8 HYDROCARGON AFTERBURNER!


Can you imagine how I would have felt fitting a LIMITED 10MN AFTERBURNER onto it?
!


I agree with this rant.

But I strongly suspect that CCP's unstated reason for the great module renaming is not intended to dumb-down the game, but is actually been done to make the localisation to other languages easier (and cheaper).

It's a lot easier to translate "limited" into French (or any given %language% ), and use that for all modules, than to get a meaningful translation of "Y-S8 HYDROCARBON" (and all the other module specific flavour-names.)

But that's the great part about it!

Names do not necessarily need a translation! It's a name!
And you know what hydrocarbon translates to in ...

... french? hydrocarbure !
... spanish? hidrocarburos !
... in dutch? koolwaterstof !
... in german? kohlenwasserstoff !

But the ABSOLUTELY best part about it?

It doesn't matter what it translates to!

There are so many names that are literally irrelevant to translate anyway,
because what matters is not the name, but that they give the item a feeling!

You will not find a single item in the real world where marketing thinks about
"oh my, does that name make any sense?" ... No!

They might think about a name that MIGHT have a connection to the actual item,
but this isn't even relevant! What matters is that it sounds cool and fits the product!


A rifter ... feeling like a muscle car, because it's engine's name sounds powerfull!

And not LIMITED!
Not AMPLE!
Not EXPERIMENTAL!


Y-S8 HYDROCARBON AFTERBURNER!
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Oraac Ensor
#290 - 2014-09-28 19:48:02 UTC
Two questions:

1. Where exactly is the logic in Meta 5, 6, etc. if there is no Meta 2, 3 and 4?

2. Until now, when newbies have asked what to do with all their unwanted loot, the answer has generally been "sell Meta 4 and above, reprocess everything else" - so what will be the advice now?
Emiko Rowna
Keys To The Stars
#291 - 2014-09-28 19:59:05 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Two questions:

1. Where exactly is the logic in Meta 5, 6, etc. if there is no Meta 2, 3 and 4?

2. Until now, when newbies have asked what to do with all their unwanted loot, the answer has generally been "sell Meta 4 and above, reprocess everything else" - so what will be the advice now?



For #1, I think it is a way to get things into loot tables.

and

For #2, give everything to me.
profundus fossura
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#292 - 2014-09-28 21:36:54 UTC
Priscilla Project wrote:
Pecora Nera wrote:
Priscilla Project wrote:
Hi!


And I loved it! It felt like a freaking muscle car!
Any you wanna know WHY it felt like a muscle car?

Because it had a Y-S8 Hydsocarbon Afterburner!

A Y-S8 HYDROCARGON AFTERBURNER!


Can you imagine how I would have felt fitting a LIMITED 10MN AFTERBURNER onto it?
!


I agree with this rant.

But I strongly suspect that CCP's unstated reason for the great module renaming is not intended to dumb-down the game, but is actually been done to make the localisation to other languages easier (and cheaper).

It's a lot easier to translate "limited" into French (or any given %language% ), and use that for all modules, than to get a meaningful translation of "Y-S8 HYDROCARBON" (and all the other module specific flavour-names.)

But that's the great part about it!

Names do not necessarily need a translation! It's a name!
And you know what hydrocarbon translates to in ...

... french? hydrocarbure !
... spanish? hidrocarburos !
... in dutch? koolwaterstof !
... in german? kohlenwasserstoff !

But the ABSOLUTELY best part about it?

It doesn't matter what it translates to!

There are so many names that are literally irrelevant to translate anyway,
because what matters is not the name, but that they give the item a feeling!

You will not find a single item in the real world where marketing thinks about
"oh my, does that name make any sense?" ... No!

They might think about a name that MIGHT have a connection to the actual item,
but this isn't even relevant! What matters is that it sounds cool and fits the product!


A rifter ... feeling like a muscle car, because it's engine's name sounds powerfull!

And not LIMITED!
Not AMPLE!
Not EXPERIMENTAL!


Y-S8 HYDROCARBON AFTERBURNER!



After reading this I want a Y-S8 kohlenwasserstoff Afterburner
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#293 - 2014-09-28 23:39:12 UTC
Damn, If I had known how much you people would cry, bitter tears, over someone renaming your precious modules. I would have learned programming and applied to CCP for a job. Your tears are delicious. BOO FRIGGING HOO!

Seriously, this is going to be the third time I've had to learn/relearn module names. I'm not upset by this and neither should you, ya big whiny babies.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#294 - 2014-09-29 01:02:33 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
Damn, If I had known how much you people would cry, bitter tears, over someone renaming your precious modules. I would have learned programming and applied to CCP for a job. Your tears are delicious. BOO FRIGGING HOO!

Seriously, this is going to be the third time I've had to learn/relearn module names. I'm not upset by this and neither should you, ya big whiny babies.


What do you care about naming conventions? You never see them.

Your ships are fit for you (you never see the modules)

You undock when you are told (you don't know what ship you are in)

you press F1 when you are instructed ( you don't know what you are firing)

In short, you are bad at this game and we all discount what you and your ilk write out of hand.

Even your tear collecting jar is a hand me down from a comrade who moved on Cool

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
Red Bluesteel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#295 - 2014-09-29 01:11:13 UTC
Robert Parr wrote:
Lena Lazair wrote:
Hmm... so much noise over the details of the naming, so little over the basic premise itself which is not what I expected and still has some critical holes. The most obvious and most frequently mentioned hole is that this balancing does NOTHING to promote the use of tech 1 items. At all.

*** tl;tp ***


**** ME....Fozzie, are you paying any attention?????ShockedShockedShocked VERY MUCH THIS^^^^ WOW a good idea on paper and in practice...YOU should have been doing this all along...instead we got half-assed sausage making homogenization WTF OVER??? Get a clue please, you are ruining the game....stop what you are doing and start doing THIS^^^^^^^^^^^ Please pull your head out!!!!!!

CCP Stopped Reading it own Thread on Page 5 ...

I don't know why they start an Comments Thread, even when they don't Read and React on the Comments and going strait forward with there Mess up what i still call a Downgrade ...

Total wrong Movement CCP, when you didn't react on the Comments you wanted, its the same as you even Post your Dev Blogs and forgot that you have written them and on Patch Day, Shocked Woops XXX Accounts Closed ... F.U.C.K Why Question


Think about it Idea
Red Bluesteel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#296 - 2014-09-29 01:19:51 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
*reads the various replies...

CCP knows what they are doing - just ask them. Twisted


Didn't' laughed that much ever TwistedTwisted
Ramman K'arojic
Lone Star Warriors
Brave Collective
#297 - 2014-09-29 01:21:32 UTC
Seriously CCP Devs when you take on a re-balancing exercise what perspectives do you consider ?

Do you consider ?

  • The overall naming convention - Yes
  • The overall balance of the modules strengths, - Yes
  • There fit differing fit requirements - Not really
  • The level of skill required to fit between all modules - Not that I have seen
  • The actual benefit of having T2 vs T1 vs Faction named - less visible
  • The Recycle amounts - not that I have seen mention - fat chance
  • The actual drop rates of T1 Meta Items - less than a fat chance


As for killing the immersion value or complexity of the item names game - are you serious - are you dumbing EVE down to be on a console ? Please rethink this.

Finally I have a serious question: Should a named T1 item EVE EVE be more expensive on the Market than a T2 item of the same type ??? on a comparable attribute basis? What ever the answer is; have you included that as your game design principles in each of the above aspects ??????



No so cheery
Ramm
Red Bluesteel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#298 - 2014-09-29 01:22:19 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Damn... what made you think that five days was going to be enough to talk about these proposed changes?

That would imply that they would think at all about their changes, but they really do that Question
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#299 - 2014-09-29 01:37:23 UTC
Drone 16 wrote:
Falin Whalen wrote:
Damn, If I had known how much you people would cry, bitter tears, over someone renaming your precious modules. I would have learned programming and applied to CCP for a job. Your tears are delicious. BOO FRIGGING HOO!

Seriously, this is going to be the third time I've had to learn/relearn module names. I'm not upset by this and neither should you, ya big whiny babies.


What do you care about naming conventions? You never see them.

Your ships are fit for you (you never see the modules)

You undock when you are told (you don't know what ship you are in)

you press F1 when you are instructed ( you don't know what you are firing)

In short, you are bad at this game and we all discount what you and your ilk write out of hand.

Even your tear collecting jar is a hand me down from a comrade who moved on Cool

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Red Bluesteel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#300 - 2014-09-29 01:40:03 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Anyone have any idea if CCP is going to compensate for the loss of invention chance for those of us that use high mets items (meta 2 and 3) in invention? The increase in chance of success is not negligible with the use of meta items, and it seems just another kick to the crotch of Industry if meta 2-4 is going to be vanishing.

Thanks.

Edit: just came across this: New Formula? I'll have to run the math on this...

Nope CCP doesn't do anything in direction of any kind of compensation ...

But they can start, only on my bill i have an gross turnover loss of 80 Bil Isk a Week since they started the Industry Crap Up Evil