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Dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, One Module At A Time

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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#61 - 2014-09-25 17:55:43 UTC
also for the majority of weapon systems, ammo capacity is not a thing. it only seems to come into play for railguns, rockets, cruise missiles and torpedoes. and obviously rapid launchers, but only scrubs use those.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#62 - 2014-09-25 17:56:46 UTC
Why not use the meta-levels as the way to differentiate between different mods ?
Like meta1 being easier to fit, meta2 taking less cap etc etc. That way we can keep the old names and keep it interesting

Wormholer for life.
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2014-09-25 17:57:29 UTC
Will you also be looking at faction module lp and tag prices to try to balance lp stores?
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#64 - 2014-09-25 18:01:25 UTC
Ponder Yonder wrote:
Cristl wrote:
Hawkin Shadowblade wrote:
As much as I do actually like the direction of the changes, you need to seriously reconsider the naming dynamic you have adopted; it's absolutely horrid in that it is reminiscent of the naming policy of other traditional MMOs:
Leather Jerkin of the Monkey?
Okay, it has an agility bonus...
Yes, this is a nice way to show the role of an item at a glance. The problem is it kills immersion in a game like EVE. There is a level of immersion involved with shopping for outfitting your ship. Buying a set of XM-2300 Missile Launchers fits with the atmosphere and general "a world you could live in" vibe you guys have been going for. By giving them role based names, I instantly had WoW flashbacks, and the names sound pretty lame, I'll be honest:
An ample Railgun?
A Scoped Railgun?
A SCOPED Railgun!?
Are you implying any other variation of Railgun is without scope? Again, you should really reconsider this renaming policy. It is not the direction you should be looking.


I'd like to second this. I'm worried that someone at CCP has been told to make the names less varied ("easier") because that will help retain new players. Quite the reverse: the fact you needed to look up your equipment made Eve feel like a real, immersive new universe and was originally part of the attraction for me. Don't throw that away.

Leather Jerkin of the Monkey?. Perfect.


CCP, Please retain some of immersive elements. Call it a Gaussian Scoped Railgun, or an XT-3200 Ample Launcher, or whatever. The quirks make Eve interesting.


Names should convey something useful to the user/consumer. What does the 3200 stand for? What does it represent? Does it convey anything useful? If these can't be answered, then it is a horrible product name.

Flavor can still be done through description text.
Maennas Vaer
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2014-09-25 18:03:32 UTC
Ponder Yonder wrote:


CCP, Please retain some of immersive elements. Call it a Gaussian Scoped Railgun, or an XT-3200 Ample Launcher, or whatever. The quirks make Eve interesting.


I do agree with the argument that EVE will lose some of its immersion with this change as much as I like the new names. This guys suggestion is a good middle ground. +1
Anzomi Inkunen
SukaX Drive Yards
#66 - 2014-09-25 18:05:56 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
IIIMAPOBOgKA wrote:
What will happen with invention where you could "sacrifice" a meta 4 module to augment your success rate if all the mods are dropping to meta 1 ?


As stated in the devblog about invention, that's being removed.


Yes but that invention change isn't supposed to happen for a bit (or at least for this release). What will happen in the meantime to the invention of those modules?
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#67 - 2014-09-25 18:06:16 UTC
Seismic Stan wrote:
I understand the need for this balancing pass and adding usability and diversity is great, but to echo some of the comments already made, it's a shame that the character and flavour has to be expunged from the item names.

For example, missile launcher 'brands' like 'Arbalest', 'Limos', 'Malkuth' et al give a bit of depth for the low, low price of one word. Banishing them entirely seems a shame. Is there no way to retain some element of this character?

Also, 'ample'? Really? Perhaps I'm more of a misogynist than I realised, but that just makes me think of boobs.


How about Voluminous?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#68 - 2014-09-25 18:10:57 UTC
i find the T2 mods just being plain better at everything a little at odds with role based mods...

T2 lml is better at everything ... surely allowing the use of T2 ammo is enough of a buff in itself??
why use the ample version when T2 is better at it??

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
khaip ur
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2014-09-25 18:11:41 UTC
Shouldn't it be something like

Capacitor Flux Coil I
36% 10 -20%

Compact Capacitor Flux Coil
37% 8 -20%

Restrained Capacitor Flux Coil
37% 10 -18%

Upgraded Capacitor Flux Coil
38% 10 -20%

Capacitor Flux Coil II
40% 14 -20%
David Magnus
#70 - 2014-09-25 18:12:07 UTC
These look like great, straight-forward changes.

Awesome work, thanks!

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion
JamesT KirkJr
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#71 - 2014-09-25 18:12:37 UTC  |  Edited by: JamesT KirkJr
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Ponder Yonder wrote:
Cristl wrote:
Hawkin Shadowblade wrote:
As much as I do actually like the direction of the changes, you need to seriously reconsider the naming dynamic you have adopted; it's absolutely horrid in that it is reminiscent of the naming policy of other traditional MMOs:
Leather Jerkin of the Monkey?
Okay, it has an agility bonus...
Yes, this is a nice way to show the role of an item at a glance. The problem is it kills immersion in a game like EVE. There is a level of immersion involved with shopping for outfitting your ship. Buying a set of XM-2300 Missile Launchers fits with the atmosphere and general "a world you could live in" vibe you guys have been going for. By giving them role based names, I instantly had WoW flashbacks, and the names sound pretty lame, I'll be honest:
An ample Railgun?
A Scoped Railgun?
A SCOPED Railgun!?
Are you implying any other variation of Railgun is without scope? Again, you should really reconsider this renaming policy. It is not the direction you should be looking.


I'd like to second this. I'm worried that someone at CCP has been told to make the names less varied ("easier") because that will help retain new players. Quite the reverse: the fact you needed to look up your equipment made Eve feel like a real, immersive new universe and was originally part of the attraction for me. Don't throw that away.

Leather Jerkin of the Monkey?. Perfect.


CCP, Please retain some of immersive elements. Call it a Gaussian Scoped Railgun, or an XT-3200 Ample Launcher, or whatever. The quirks make Eve interesting.


Names should convey something useful to the user/consumer. What does the 3200 stand for? What does it represent? Does it convey anything useful? If these can't be answered, then it is a horrible product name.

Flavor can still be done through description text.


Please look at the world you live in and tell me wtf marketing was thinking when they named stuff. I mean, like ANYTHING. What does "Antec" communicate to me about a computer case? How about "Asus G750" which is the computer I am using? Camry for a car? seriously, if you can find anything, it's going to be an exception to the rule.

I'm sorry, but your point is baseless irl. It's up to the consumer to know what they're buying, and by looking at the Variations on the ML tab and checking market data, I instantly knew that XT-3200 was the best bang for the isk in HML. I might have also needed to check Requirements, but that's another tab on the same window, and that takes seconds.

The problem was finding where that info lived in the first place. If CCP wants to improve their player experience for everyone, mass DB operations which change names and stats isn't the answer. Fixing your godawful MSWord Menus in Space UI is the answer, because they're the biggest barriers to gameplay there is.

Just count clicks to find info that you expect right at hand sometimes. I dare you. CCP could leave the entire rest of the game alone and increase enjoyment by hundreds of percent just by making a UI that works like a space game UI.
Valterra Craven
#72 - 2014-09-25 18:12:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
Man, the market sure reacts quickly to changes... oh well not fast enough for this one :(

I do see a couple problems.

1. The meta layout of your re balance makes no sense.
a. Why have meta gaps? (shouldn't the number increase like power does and not skip numbers)
b. Why are basic modules meta 6 and t1 mods are meta 0... basic should be meta 0 and t1 should be meta 1...

2. I notice that there seems to be no reason to fit a t1 cap flux coil.
The t1 flux coil takes 5 more cpu but the basic has the exact same stats as the t1...

Which brings me to this point. That is incredible sloppy given that you know for a fact that problem already exists with several classes of modules. One of the primary things of this change should be to ensure that stuff like that doesn't happen anywhere in the meta.

3. When you changed the refine efficiency you cut the value on the market in HALF of a lot of modules. Seriously, go look at the market and see how many things dropped 50% in value over night because of that change. So what I recommend is that you boost the refine for all of the modules that this affected to what they were giving pre-crius. This shouldn't affect manufacturing because as you said, none of these have blueprints and can't be made by players.

EDIT: Also WTF on just now getting a blog out about this when the changes are due in 5 days... this is something that should have been released much sooner to give players time to discuss this as this is going to be way things move forward for all the other modules.
Adaahh Gee
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#73 - 2014-09-25 18:14:22 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:


Names should convey something useful to the user/consumer. What does the 3200 stand for? What does it represent? Does it convey anything useful? If these can't be answered, then it is a horrible product name.

Flavor can still be done through description text.



I have always seen the named item as a brand,
like Pepsi, McDonalds or Nike.
They don't "mean" anything, they don't say anything about the item, but once you are familiar, you just know that Pepsi is a Cola drink, Mcdonalds is fast food (mainly burgers) and Nike is trainers (or sneakers if you are American)

Imagine how boring life would be if you went out for a "Fast food restaurant I" wearing your "Sports footwear II" and had a refreshing drink of "Cola flavoured Beverage III"

And we'd all be playing "Internet MMORPG based in space I" not Eve Online.
Cristl
#74 - 2014-09-25 18:14:40 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Names should convey something useful to the user/consumer. What does the 3200 stand for? What does it represent? Does it convey anything useful? If these can't be answered, then it is a horrible product name.

Flavor can still be done through description text.


I disagree. Consider some, say, Motto Guzzi motorcycles: do the names 'Griso 8V SE', 'Stelvio 1200 NTX' and 'Norge GT 8V' convey much? No, they need to be looked up. That builds interest, and then appreciation.

And they're surely much better names than 'Slightly Increased Fuel Economy V7', even if you have no interest in motorcycles.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#75 - 2014-09-25 18:15:37 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
i find the T2 mods just being plain better at everything a little at odds with role based mods...

T2 lml is better at everything ... surely allowing the use of T2 ammo is enough of a buff in itself??
why use the ample version when T2 is better at it??


in a general weapons fix, they should allow T2 ammo to be used by all weapons, and get weapon spec skills affecting all tiers of weapons. obviously also they should be nerfing T2 ammo into the ground, but yeah.
Lexiana Del'Amore
Nouvelle Rouvenor
#76 - 2014-09-25 18:17:15 UTC
RIP Arbalest :'(
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#77 - 2014-09-25 18:17:36 UTC
JamesT KirkJr wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Ponder Yonder wrote:
Cristl wrote:
Hawkin Shadowblade wrote:
As much as I do actually like the direction of the changes, you need to seriously reconsider the naming dynamic you have adopted; it's absolutely horrid in that it is reminiscent of the naming policy of other traditional MMOs:
Leather Jerkin of the Monkey?
Okay, it has an agility bonus...
Yes, this is a nice way to show the role of an item at a glance. The problem is it kills immersion in a game like EVE. There is a level of immersion involved with shopping for outfitting your ship. Buying a set of XM-2300 Missile Launchers fits with the atmosphere and general "a world you could live in" vibe you guys have been going for. By giving them role based names, I instantly had WoW flashbacks, and the names sound pretty lame, I'll be honest:
An ample Railgun?
A Scoped Railgun?
A SCOPED Railgun!?
Are you implying any other variation of Railgun is without scope? Again, you should really reconsider this renaming policy. It is not the direction you should be looking.


I'd like to second this. I'm worried that someone at CCP has been told to make the names less varied ("easier") because that will help retain new players. Quite the reverse: the fact you needed to look up your equipment made Eve feel like a real, immersive new universe and was originally part of the attraction for me. Don't throw that away.

Leather Jerkin of the Monkey?. Perfect.


CCP, Please retain some of immersive elements. Call it a Gaussian Scoped Railgun, or an XT-3200 Ample Launcher, or whatever. The quirks make Eve interesting.


Names should convey something useful to the user/consumer. What does the 3200 stand for? What does it represent? Does it convey anything useful? If these can't be answered, then it is a horrible product name.

Flavor can still be done through description text.


Please look at the world you live in and tell me wtf marketing was thinking when they named stuff. I mean, like ANYTHING. What does "Antec" communicate to me about a computer case? How about "Asus G750" which is the computer I am using? Camry for a car? seriously, if you can find anything, it's going to be an exception to the rule.

I'm sorry, but your point is baseless irl. It's up to the consumer to know what they're buying, and by looking at the Variations on the ML tab and checking market data, I instantly knew that XT-3200 was the best bang for the isk in HML. I might have also needed to check Requirements, but that's another tab on the same window, and that takes seconds.

The problem was finding where that info lived in the first place. If CCP wants to improve their player experience for everyone, mass DB operations which change names and stats isn't the answer. Fixing your godawful MSWord Menus in Space UI is the answer, because they're the biggest barriers to gameplay there is.

Just count clicks to find info that you expect right at hand sometimes. I dare you. CCP could leave the entire rest of the game alone and increase enjoyment by hundreds of percent just by making a UI that works like a space game UI.


And you proved my point. Those are all horrible names and the marketing/product people that came up with them should be fired. Look at the iPhone, Nexus, and Samsung devices. The names actually mean something, have progression, and can be easily deciphered by the consumer.
JamesT KirkJr
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#78 - 2014-09-25 18:20:01 UTC
CCP Gargant wrote:
Oceanus is released next week and with it starts the advertised module rebalancing. To start out with the team decided to target eight specific groups of modules and CCP Fozzie has written a dev blog to explain the reasoning, method, and the groups.

Head on over here to check it out.

Oceanus is released on Tuesday, September 30th. These changes are looking very good. What do you think?


Honestly? That no creator of anything ever is a reliable judge of "what's good" where their creation is concerned. Judging your work is our job. Ty for keeping a professional perspective.
Absolutely Not Analt
Carebears on Fire
#79 - 2014-09-25 18:27:37 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Seismic Stan wrote:
I understand the need for this balancing pass and adding usability and diversity is great, but to echo some of the comments already made, it's a shame that the character and flavour has to be expunged from the item names.

For example, missile launcher 'brands' like 'Arbalest', 'Limos', 'Malkuth' et al give a bit of depth for the low, low price of one word. Banishing them entirely seems a shame. Is there no way to retain some element of this character?

Also, 'ample'? Really? Perhaps I'm more of a misogynist than I realised, but that just makes me think of boobs.


How about Voluminous?


That's only appropriate when discussing bloomers

Eve is a multi player game. And you are the content. - Ralph King-Griffin Being meh at two things is not better than being great at one. - Lugh Crow-Slave
Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#80 - 2014-09-25 18:30:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Vesan Terakol
Can we get some sort of a merge between the current naming system and the new one? I appreciate the clarity, but this way the names sound way too artificial.

E.G. Quote "Prototype 'Arbalest' Light Missile Launcher is now Compact Light Missile Launcher"

Or wouldn't it sound better as ]COMPACT 'Arbalest' Light Missile Launcher[

It will still retain the clarity without making it sound too generic. Because having this "special" module does bear some degree of awesomeness, even when diminished by its inferiority compared to t2

P.S. This information should have been out earlier, way earlier, as i see this opinion of mine is shred by a good amount of players. You need the feedback on those name changes! Because you need better ones!