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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2781 - 2014-08-31 03:25:13 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
[quote=Derrick Miles]I'm not getting the argument here apparently. Bumping is allowed, and it can be done well enough to prevent you from warping. CONCORD is not a police force, because that analogy breaks down rather quickly. But the mechanic is obviously one that's been sanctioned by CCP, so it's a part of the game, like it or not.

The point is that when bumping is used as a mechanism to make it impossible for ships to warp off between successive gank attempts from the exact same gankers, the failure of CONCORD to respond to such is inconsistent with the both the purpose of OONCORD and the design of highsec.

I would argue here that the purpose of CONCORD is not a police force but a specific set of consequences for a specific set of actions. You're right in that they are not an effective police force, for a number of reasons, but I don't think they were intended to be one in the traditional sense.



To Quote CCP Falcon " CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive." This means that in the view of CCP CONCORD IS a police force.
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#2782 - 2014-08-31 03:28:49 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

To Quote CCP Falcon " CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive." This means that in the view of CCP CONCORD IS a police force.

You've got me there, but I called him out on that as well, and I think the only way you can consider CONCORD a police force is in a role-playing scenario. No police force in the world metes out the same punishment to repeat offenders as it does to first timers.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2783 - 2014-08-31 03:29:50 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

To Quote CCP Falcon " CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive." This means that in the view of CCP CONCORD IS a police force.

You've got me there, but I called him out on that as well, and I think the only way you can consider CONCORD a police force is in a role-playing scenario. No police force in the world metes out the same punishment to repeat offenders as it does to first timers.


Ya, I have the same issue. How can it be that a lifelong suicide ganker with a -10 sec status gets the exact same punishment as a 5.0 sec status guy on his first gank? I've supported sliding scale punishments based on security status.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2784 - 2014-08-31 03:59:59 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
I've supported sliding scale punishments based on security status.


And you're wrong for that, too.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2785 - 2014-08-31 07:16:28 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
To Quote CCP Falcon " CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive." This means that in the view of CCP CONCORD IS a police force.

No, that is just some incoherent nonsense you've cooked up because you are as familiar with linguistics as you are with everything EVE.

It means that CONCORD shares two characteristics with law enforcement agencies: they offer a deterrent and they are reactive. What you are engaging in is a fallacy of composition: that just because these two details about CONCORD are the same as with a law enforcement, everything is the same as a law enforcement. At no point is such an equivalence stated or even suggested.

CONCORD is not a law enforcement agency — it's a game mechanic that enforces costs for aggression.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2786 - 2014-08-31 10:39:08 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Ya, I have the same issue. How can it be that a lifelong suicide ganker with a -10 sec status gets the exact same punishment as a 5.0 sec status guy on his first gank? I've supported sliding scale punishments based on security status.

actually the 5.0 sec player suffers a greater punishment for criminal activity than a -9.0 sec player
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2787 - 2014-08-31 10:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Veers Belvar wrote:
How can it be that a lifelong suicide ganker with a -10 sec status gets the exact same punishment as a 5.0 sec status guy on his first gank?
Because there is only one punishment for any crime that attracts the wrath of Concord. Concord are judge, jury and executioner. Because there is only one punishment, which is applied without any chance of appeal or defence, they're a damn sight more consistent than any real world criminal justice system. Unlike any real life police force, you can't fight them, evade them or get away with any crime that falls under their remit.

Quote:
I've supported sliding scale punishments based on security status.
This already exists, it's called the Faction Navy/Police. If you're below a certain sec status they attempt to kill you.

As for your concern with the bumping mechanic, CCP, who are the ultimate power in Eve, don't consider it to be a crime, therefore Concord don't get involved. If you consider it to be a crime it is up to you to do something, ingame, about it.

Welcome to the sandbox.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2788 - 2014-08-31 10:46:47 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

To Quote CCP Falcon " CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive." This means that in the view of CCP CONCORD IS a police force.

You've got me there, but I called him out on that as well, and I think the only way you can consider CONCORD a police force is in a role-playing scenario. No police force in the world metes out the same punishment to repeat offenders as it does to first timers.


Generally speaking people put to death in the real world don't tend to get up and do it again.
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#2789 - 2014-08-31 10:50:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

To Quote CCP Falcon " CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive." This means that in the view of CCP CONCORD IS a police force.

You've got me there, but I called him out on that as well, and I think the only way you can consider CONCORD a police force is in a role-playing scenario. No police force in the world metes out the same punishment to repeat offenders as it does to first timers.


Generally speaking people put to death in the real world don't tend to get up and do it again.
In before Jesus P

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#2790 - 2014-08-31 10:59:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

To Quote CCP Falcon " CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive." This means that in the view of CCP CONCORD IS a police force.

You've got me there, but I called him out on that as well, and I think the only way you can consider CONCORD a police force is in a role-playing scenario. No police force in the world metes out the same punishment to repeat offenders as it does to first timers.


Generally speaking people put to death in the real world don't tend to get up and do it again.

They're not really putting pilots to death if they wake up in a station a second after their ship blows up. Unless we get into some existentialism here, which I admit might be more interesting than where this thread has been going lately.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2791 - 2014-08-31 11:30:27 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:

They're not really putting pilots to death if they wake up in a station a second after their ship blows up. Unless we get into some existentialism here, which I admit might be more interesting than where this thread has been going lately.


Sure they are. You died which is why clone number 175 woke up (unless your the broker, that guy has dozens of himself wandering around at any one time).
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2792 - 2014-08-31 11:32:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:

They're not really putting pilots to death if they wake up in a station a second after their ship blows up. Unless we get into some existentialism here, which I admit might be more interesting than where this thread has been going lately.


Sure they are. You died which is why clone number 175 woke up (unless your the broker, that guy has dozens of himself wandering around at any one time).


Nevermind that even capsuleer ships have crew.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#2793 - 2014-08-31 11:36:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:

They're not really putting pilots to death if they wake up in a station a second after their ship blows up. Unless we get into some existentialism here, which I admit might be more interesting than where this thread has been going lately.


Sure they are. You died which is why clone number 175 woke up (unless your the broker, that guy has dozens of himself wandering around at any one time).

Yes, but if you can't tell the difference between you and your clone, did you die and your clone woke up, or did your old clone die and you woke up?
Nitchiu
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2794 - 2014-08-31 11:40:12 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:

They're not really putting pilots to death if they wake up in a station a second after their ship blows up. Unless we get into some existentialism here, which I admit might be more interesting than where this thread has been going lately.


Sure they are. You died which is why clone number 175 woke up (unless your the broker, that guy has dozens of himself wandering around at any one time).

Yes, but if you can't tell the difference between you and your clone, did you die and your clone woke up, or did your old clone die and you woke up?


They don't actually kill you just blow up your ship which is the only punishment due to capsuleers being so powerful and useful. Also the empires don't really care all that much if capsuleers kill each other they just don't want them doing it in secure space. Makes the peons edgy.
Operative X10-4
Doomheim
#2795 - 2014-08-31 15:06:33 UTC
It's always the same crap, people plays eve knowing that it's a pvp enviroment with full loot where the is no real safe place, THEY KNOW IT... and once they get ganked the tears and cries starts, seriously WTF!!!
Let the gankers gank! and for the haulers, There are lots of ways to avoid being ganked just stop being lazy.

FOREVER PIRATE 07 FLY DANGEROUSLY.
Noobshot Elongur
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2796 - 2014-08-31 17:14:03 UTC
Operative X10-4 wrote:
It's always the same crap, people plays eve knowing that it's a pvp enviroment with full loot where the is no real safe place, THEY KNOW IT... and once they get ganked the tears and cries starts, seriously WTF!!!
Let the gankers gank! and for the haulers, There are lots of ways to avoid being ganked just stop being lazy.



AYYYYYY-MEN! If I can learn not to be stupid in high sec, the original poster and the other haulers can learn too.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2797 - 2014-08-31 22:30:46 UTC
Career criminals like the CODE folks should not be "put to death" rather they should face jail sentences, like for say 30 days, where they are unable to leave the dockup.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2798 - 2014-08-31 22:39:24 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Career criminals like the CODE folks should not be "put to death" rather they should face jail sentences, like for say 30 days, where they are unable to leave the dockup.


The second invincible NPC pirates start chasing mission runners, sure.

Until then, "occupational hazard" can't be something you only apply to the people you don't like.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2799 - 2014-08-31 22:47:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Career criminals like the CODE folks should not be "put to death" rather they should face jail sentences, like for say 30 days, where they are unable to leave the dockup.


The second invincible NPC pirates start chasing mission runners, sure.

Until then, "occupational hazard" can't be something you only apply to the people you don't like.


Suicide gankers don't care about CONCORD, ship loss is already factored into their risk/reward. What does not make sense is releasing repeat offenders every 15 minutes so they can continue to commit the same crime.
Nitchiu
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2800 - 2014-08-31 22:51:36 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Career criminals like the CODE folks should not be "put to death" rather they should face jail sentences, like for say 30 days, where they are unable to leave the dockup.


The second invincible NPC pirates start chasing mission runners, sure.

Until then, "occupational hazard" can't be something you only apply to the people you don't like.


Suicide gankers don't care about CONCORD, ship loss is already factored into their risk/reward. What does not make sense is releasing repeat offenders every 15 minutes so they can continue to commit the same crime.



Then you also don't understand why the allies allowed dozens of german and japanese war criminals to get away scot free after WWII?