These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Anal Canal
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#2701 - 2014-08-29 21:55:40 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
I personally have no problem with undertanked and autopiloted ships getting ganked; stupid people deserve to watch their assets be incinerated. What I do object to vociferously is what I witnessed last night during a "Code enforcement" operation in Uedama. Specifically, an Orca warped into the system, and was bumped off its align by a Machariel and an Omen Navy issue. A bevy of gankers arrived for the kill....and got it down to 20% structure before Concord showed up. A well tanked Orca surviving a gank, "yawn" I already hear you saying.

The disturbing part is what happens next....as the gankers go to dock to wait out their 15 minutes aggression timer, the bumping continues, without any intervention by Concord. Precisely 15 minutes later the EXACT SAME gankers come and blow up the Orca. What kind of police force would release attempted murderers after 15 minutes so they could finish the job? And why on earth is bumping ships off their align in highsec, when clearly done to facilitate ganking, not a criminal actvity? To the extent that CCP won't criminalize bumping in highsec (with perhaps a 1 minute warning so as not to capture accidental bumping), certainly a Concord gank response should include a 1 minute pause on bumping the gank victim. Otherwise we will continue to see absurd results like the above.


Full steam to ramming speed!

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Solecist Project
#2702 - 2014-08-29 22:02:11 UTC
... right into the ...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2703 - 2014-08-29 22:05:02 UTC


Bumping IC not griefing g.


Did you read the lhbrt thread?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2704 - 2014-08-29 22:06:03 UTC
Well, I'm not steamed at all. But allowing gankers to entrap ships through bumping so that multiple waves of the EXACT SAME gankers can blow them up seems to be a clearly illogical game mechanic, and should be fixed.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2705 - 2014-08-29 22:07:42 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Well, I'm not steamed at all. But allowing gankers to entrap ships through bumping so that multiple waves of the EXACT SAME gankers can blow them up seems to be a clearly illogical game mechanic, and should be fixed.



Why not use a wrbber?m


Why not use a scout? There are a lot oh other choices in this thread..

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Anal Canal
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#2706 - 2014-08-29 22:10:38 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Well, I'm not steamed at all. But allowing gankers to entrap ships through bumping so that multiple waves of the EXACT SAME gankers can blow them up seems to be a clearly illogical game mechanic, and should be fixed.


I will agree with you on this point.

If I was in your shoes, and I saw the events your previously post take place... I would have engaged the significantly weakened Orca and scooped the wonderful pinata of cargo. Rather than you know, just sitting around.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2707 - 2014-08-29 22:10:48 UTC
Because you should not need to use a webber or a scout to prevent criminal activity in highsec. The police should intervene, and take appropriate action against the offenders. That is what highsec is about.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2708 - 2014-08-29 22:15:07 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Because you should not need to use a webber or a scout to prevent criminal activity in highsec. The police should intervene, and take appropriate action against the offenders. That is what highsec is about.


Appropriate actin requires criminal Flagg.

Could you describe how the game wuld differentiat between accidenysl and intentional bumping?



I'm sort am a bit inebriated but do not mind to discuss.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2709 - 2014-08-29 22:15:10 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Because you should not need to use a webber or a scout to prevent criminal activity in highsec. The police should intervene, and take appropriate action against the offenders. That is what highsec is about.


They do intervene, they just don't intervene the moment you want them to.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2710 - 2014-08-29 22:15:49 UTC
Anal Canal wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Well, I'm not steamed at all. But allowing gankers to entrap ships through bumping so that multiple waves of the EXACT SAME gankers can blow them up seems to be a clearly illogical game mechanic, and should be fixed.


I will agree with you on this point.

If I was in your shoes, and I saw the events your previously post take place... I would have engaged the significantly weakened Orca and scooped the wonderful pinata of cargo. Rather than you know, just sitting around.


Well, i'm actually not very interested in suicide ganking people and stealing their loot. If others do it, with appropriate game mechanics in place, that is their right. I am simply pointing out that the current game mechanics are not adequate to deal with griefer bumping, and leave slow aligning ships, regardless of their fitting choices, subject to unanswered criminal activity in highsec, which is inconsistent with its design.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2711 - 2014-08-29 22:17:07 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Because you should not need to use a webber or a scout to prevent criminal activity in highsec. The police should intervene, and take appropriate action against the offenders. That is what highsec is about.


Appropriate actin requires criminal Flagg.

Could you describe how the game wuld differentiat between accidenysl and intentional bumping?



I'm sort am a bit inebriated but do not mind to discuss.


I suggested that being a gank attempt victim should grant you 60 seconds of immunity from bumping, which is enough time for an at the keyboard capsuleer to align and warp off.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2712 - 2014-08-29 22:20:48 UTC
Andski wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Because you should not need to use a webber or a scout to prevent criminal activity in highsec. The police should intervene, and take appropriate action against the offenders. That is what highsec is about.


They do intervene, they just don't intervene the moment you want them to.


No, they intervene after the first gank, and dispatch the gankers. They then ignore the bumpers for 15 minutes who bump the target off the gate and away from the police spawn. They then respond to the second attempt, where the exact same gankers who attacked the first ship, reship, and right under the nose of the police then come back and kill their target. While I personally do not suicide gank, it is a valid game mechanic, and is part of the game. What is illogical is Concord ignoring the 15 minute entrapment between gank attempts, which is clearly, in this context, a criminal activity.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2713 - 2014-08-29 22:21:29 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
[ete]

I suggested that being a gank attempt victim should grant you 60 seconds of immunity from bumping, which is enough time for an at the keyboard capsuleer to align and warp off.


So you mean of you are fired upon then 60 srconds after firing you can freely alig n and warp?



Can you tell me how this eould BR exploited to no end biy freighter pilots and minors?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Anal Canal
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#2714 - 2014-08-29 22:23:08 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Because you should not need to use a webber or a scout to prevent criminal activity in highsec. The police should intervene, and take appropriate action against the offenders. That is what highsec is about.


Appropriate actin requires criminal Flagg.

Could you describe how the game wuld differentiat between accidenysl and intentional bumping?



I'm sort am a bit inebriated but do not mind to discuss.


CHEERS MATE!

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2715 - 2014-08-29 22:23:54 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Because you should not need to use a webber or a scout to prevent criminal activity in highsec. The police should intervene, and take appropriate action against the offenders. That is what highsec is about.


Everything you just said is wrong.

Yes, you should have to bother to defend yourself, and you should have to have multiple people to defend against a large swarm of other players. No, CONCORD should not intervene, in fact they should not exist in the first place if you get right down to it. And no, that is not what highsec is about.

The sec levels are about NPC inflicted consequences for "criminal" activity. Highsec is about that consequence being the destruction of your ship.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2716 - 2014-08-29 22:27:59 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Because you should not need to use a webber or a scout to prevent criminal activity in highsec. The police should intervene, and take appropriate action against the offenders. That is what highsec is about.


Everything you just said is wrong.

Yes, you should have to bother to defend yourself, and you should have to have multiple people to defend against a large swarm of other players. No, CONCORD should not intervene, in fact they should not exist in the first place if you get right down to it. And no, that is not what highsec is about.

The sec levels are about NPC inflicted consequences for "criminal" activity. Highsec is about that consequence being the destruction of your ship.


I actually agree with you. "Criminal activity" in highsec should lead to the destruction of your ship. Entrapping another player's ship for 15 minutes so that successive waves of gankers can blow them up is criminal activity, and should lead to the loss of your ship.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2717 - 2014-08-29 22:32:21 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

I actually agree with you. "Criminal activity" in highsec should lead to the destruction of your ship. Entrapping another player's ship for 15 minutes so that successive waves of gankers can blow them up is criminal activity, and should lead to the loss of your ship.


Bumping is an aggression neutral act.

This is because CONCORD specifically reacts to the activation of offensive modules.

Absolutely zero of the requirements for CONCORD intervention are found in bumping.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2718 - 2014-08-29 22:37:28 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Entrapping another player's ship for 15 minutes so that successive waves of gankers can blow them up is criminal activity, and should lead to the loss of your ship.

Nope. However, being trapped for 15 minutes is criminally incompetent and should lead to the loss of your ship. So it all works out fine in the end.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2719 - 2014-08-29 22:37:36 UTC

Veers Belvar wrote:
[]

I actually agree with you. "Criminal activity" in highsec should lead to the destruction of your ship. Entrapping another player's ship for 15 minutes so that successive waves of gankers can blow them up is criminal activity, and should lead to the loss of your ship.


Could you answer my Q? Am trying to shoe you that what you are asking fot is impossible t o implement..


Any pilot can use an alt to shoot.them and giarantee align ang warp.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2720 - 2014-08-29 22:40:21 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

I actually agree with you. "Criminal activity" in highsec should lead to the destruction of your ship. Entrapping another player's ship for 15 minutes so that successive waves of gankers can blow them up is criminal activity, and should lead to the loss of your ship.


Bumping is an aggression neutral act.

This is because CONCORD specifically reacts to the activation of offensive modules.

Absolutely zero of the requirements for CONCORD intervention are found in bumping.


Again - I think we are in agreement here. CONCORD should not respond to aggression neutral acts. We would not want a CONCORD response to bumping a miner off his rock, or to bumping a mission runner away from his loot. What my point is, is that in this context, specifically in between gank attempts from the same gankers waiting out their aggression timers, and where the bumping is exactly equivalent in nature to warp disruption/scrambling (which clearly is an activation of offensive modules, and I think you would agree rightfully carries a CONCORD response), the bumping is not "an agression neutral act," but rather is a positive aggressive act, and should see CONCORD dispatch the bumpers. Given that this would be difficult to code, I have suggested an alternate option, specifically that ganking would grant a 60 second immunity to the target....which could not be "exploited" by freighters and miners, since by the bumping being inherently aggressive in this contest, they are rightfully able to avail themselves of a CONCORD reponse against it.