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Damn... Burners are difficult!
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#81 - 2014-08-29 20:46:02 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
CCP said burners would be difficult. An npc emulating a faction frigate with deadspace gear, perfect skills and off grid boosts. I'm surprised it doesn't have remote rep alts and falcons in wait (I joke), but CCP doesn't have remote rep npcs implemented, nor have ewar ever worked on them. At least it prevents "ECM everything".

Giving them those stats is a good start. It's supposed to expose people to the difficulty of pvp, so CCP better not nerf them :P


1.) Specific waves of sleeper and Incursion NPC's will remote rep each other.

2.) EWAR does work on NPC's. The most obvious is ECM, TP's, and Webs. Tracks and Damps supposedly do, but NPC have really weird stats that make those forms of EWAR typically ineffective. Neuts, Scrams, and Points have no effect.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2014-08-29 21:25:59 UTC
Scrams work on the burners. It slows down the Guristas burner just as much as it should for having its MWD shut off.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#83 - 2014-09-15 23:26:52 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Neuts, Scrams, and Points have no effect.




Points actually do. The rats in belts that carry minerals would sometimes warp out. I would bring points to counter this, but they would also break my lock periodically, so I would have to relock them to rescram before they got up to speed and warped out.

I assume they had target breakers or something.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#84 - 2014-09-16 05:46:53 UTC
Not such a ban of the whole burner thing. Like a lot of L4 folks my skills are all in Battleships, so I can't really participate. Would be nice to see more content for the main mission ships.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#85 - 2014-09-16 06:12:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
If you Do not have sufficient skills for a frigate then I doubt you See fit for a battleship. Burner missions simulate a pvp fight and do not have the purpose to flush isk in your pockets.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#86 - 2014-09-16 06:21:02 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
If you Do not have sufficient skills for a frigate then I doubt you See fit for a battleship. Burner missions simulate a pvp fight and do not have the purpose to flush isk in your pockets.


My battleship skills are excellent, thank you. Some of us trained the bare minimum skills for ships under battleships, and then the perfect skillset for battleships. And ISK is not always an issue.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2014-09-16 06:53:01 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
If you Do not have sufficient skills for a frigate then I doubt you See fit for a battleship. Burner missions simulate a pvp fight and do not have the purpose to flush isk in your pockets.


My battleship skills are excellent, thank you. Some of us trained the bare minimum skills for ships under battleships, and then the perfect skillset for battleships. And ISK is not always an issue.


If your BS skills are that good then you only miss around 3 weeks for perfect frigate handling. Congratulations.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Cancel Align NOW
The Distillery
Commonwealth Vanguard
#88 - 2014-09-16 08:17:22 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
If you Do not have sufficient skills for a frigate then I doubt you See fit for a battleship. Burner missions simulate a pvp fight and do not have the purpose to flush isk in your pockets.


My battleship skills are excellent, thank you. Some of us trained the bare minimum skills for ships under battleships, and then the perfect skillset for battleships. And ISK is not always an issue.


If your BS skills are that good then you only miss around 3 weeks for perfect frigate handling. Congratulations.


For an excellent Battleship Pilot:

Core Support Skills - Should be all done
Gunnery/Missile Support Skills - Should be all done
Navigation Skills - Should be all done
Main Drone Skills - Should be all done
Drone Support Skills - Should be all done
Armour Skills - Should be all done
Shield Skills - Should be all done
Rigging Skills - Should be all done
Targeting Skills - Should be all done

Estimated SP: 25,000,000 - 90,000,000

To access Burners you will need to do:

Small (racial specific) turret/missile V
Small (racial specific) turret/missile range specialisation III+

racial frigate V
assault ships III+

ewar skills to V aligned to specific Burner.

Estimated SP: 2,500,000 if you have all those skills at 0.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2014-09-16 10:05:22 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
If you Do not have sufficient skills for a frigate then I doubt you See fit for a battleship. Burner missions simulate a pvp fight and do not have the purpose to flush isk in your pockets.



No they do not. CCP already stated they DO NOT SIMMULATE PVP. They are just ships as powerful as a player ship can be.

PVP is not in nay form like a burner mission.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2014-09-16 10:15:31 UTC
Dark Drifter wrote:
HeXxploiT wrote:
Looks like we got what we asked for. Burner missions appear to be not only difficult, but damn near impossible!
I thought My faction fitted Hawk was pretty badass until I tried to run a burner only to find that my 220dps wasn't scratching the paint on the enemy and I had to have a buddy do a suicide run to get unscrambled and get my ass out.
Look likes CCP is trying to force(encourage) the group dynamic again.
F* that i'm going to do this sh** myself!

Anyway it should prove to be a challenge. Anyone know how much these missions pay out?


normal LP for a level 4
about 900k isk in reward and bonus
5mill for killing the rat

in my opinion they are badly implimented.
they way the site is set up means insta death for the first ship to land on grid
Ewar of every kind dose not work on them
there is no way for a frigate sized hull to mitigate the damage they do.

its like taking your AF against a RLML cerb and expecting to live


I did that once with my Ishkur, and lived, with a Cerb kill.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Prince Kobol
#91 - 2014-09-16 10:19:36 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
If you Do not have sufficient skills for a frigate then I doubt you See fit for a battleship. Burner missions simulate a pvp fight and do not have the purpose to flush isk in your pockets.


Burner mission do not emulate PvP missions, they were never designed to emulate PvP.


Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#92 - 2014-09-16 10:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
If you Do not have sufficient skills for a frigate then I doubt you See fit for a battleship. Burner missions simulate a pvp fight and do not have the purpose to flush isk in your pockets.



No they do not. CCP already stated they DO NOT SIMMULATE PVP. They are just ships as powerful as a player ship can be.

PVP is not in nay form like a burner mission.

For someone who never did solo pvp its as close as it gets.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Prince Kobol
#93 - 2014-09-16 11:11:49 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
If you Do not have sufficient skills for a frigate then I doubt you See fit for a battleship. Burner missions simulate a pvp fight and do not have the purpose to flush isk in your pockets.



No they do not. CCP already stated they DO NOT SIMMULATE PVP. They are just ships as powerful as a player ship can be.

PVP is not in nay form like a burner mission.

For someone who never did solo pvp its as close as it gets.



You sure about that?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#94 - 2014-09-16 12:38:04 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
If you Do not have sufficient skills for a frigate then I doubt you See fit for a battleship. Burner missions simulate a pvp fight and do not have the purpose to flush isk in your pockets.


My battleship skills are excellent, thank you. Some of us trained the bare minimum skills for ships under battleships, and then the perfect skillset for battleships. And ISK is not always an issue.


If your BS skills are that good then you only miss around 3 weeks for perfect frigate handling. Congratulations.


For an excellent Battleship Pilot:

Core Support Skills - Should be all done
Gunnery/Missile Support Skills - Should be all done
Navigation Skills - Should be all done
Main Drone Skills - Should be all done
Drone Support Skills - Should be all done
Armour Skills - Should be all done
Shield Skills - Should be all done
Rigging Skills - Should be all done
Targeting Skills - Should be all done

Estimated SP: 25,000,000 - 90,000,000

To access Burners you will need to do:

Small (racial specific) turret/missile V
Small (racial specific) turret/missile range specialisation III+

racial frigate V
assault ships III+

ewar skills to V aligned to specific Burner.

Estimated SP: 2,500,000 if you have all those skills at 0.



Not so.

[Daredevil, Burner Dramiel]
Shadow Serpentis Armor Explosive Hardener
Coreli A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Shadow Serpentis Armor Explosive Hardener

Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Shadow Serpentis Light Ion Blaster, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Shadow Serpentis Light Ion Blaster, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

What I use (anti-angel version). Thermodynamics to 4 is the most important skill It took my 3 days to get my Battleship (Rattlesnake/Machariel) flying alt to fly the above this at a level where it can beat burners without dying.

I cheat now and use an alt in a Griffin to EWAR the burners down after I get them webbed, but the above fit has kiulled burners solo. Faction IONs cost 8 mil a pop, chump change.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#95 - 2014-09-16 13:40:36 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
2.) EWAR does work on NPC's. The most obvious is ECM, TP's, and Webs. Tracks and Damps supposedly do, but NPC have really weird stats that make those forms of EWAR typically ineffective. Neuts, Scrams, and Points have no effect.


Erm... the Angel Cartel Burner is very susceptable to ECM. We beat it by jamming it as soon as it was webbed, then swamping it with frigates. You do need to apply webs first, else it will pull range. It does come back when you disengage ECM, so you can in fact disable it untill all players are in the mission pocket.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#96 - 2014-09-16 13:47:14 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
2.) EWAR does work on NPC's. The most obvious is ECM, TP's, and Webs. Tracks and Damps supposedly do, but NPC have really weird stats that make those forms of EWAR typically ineffective. Neuts, Scrams, and Points have no effect.


Erm... the Angel Cartel Burner is very susceptable to ECM. We beat it by jamming it as soon as it was webbed, then swamping it with frigates. You do need to apply webs first, else it will pull range. It does come back when you disengage ECM, so you can in fact disable it untill all players are in the mission pocket.


Thus is the power of ACTUALLY DOING THINGS lol. The poster you responded to most likely hadn't tried a single burner mission before declaring that EWAR doesn't work against them. It's the 1st thing i tried and I spend 3 days training an alt to use an ECM (and FoF light missiles, yay extra 20 dps lol) Griffin and it's ridiculous how easy Burner missions are now.
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#97 - 2014-09-16 14:15:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
2.) EWAR does work on NPC's. The most obvious is ECM, TP's, and Webs. Tracks and Damps supposedly do, but NPC have really weird stats that make those forms of EWAR typically ineffective. Neuts, Scrams, and Points have no effect.


Erm... the Angel Cartel Burner is very susceptable to ECM. We beat it by jamming it as soon as it was webbed, then swamping it with frigates. You do need to apply webs first, else it will pull range. It does come back when you disengage ECM, so you can in fact disable it untill all players are in the mission pocket.


Thus is the power of ACTUALLY DOING THINGS lol. The poster you responded to most likely hadn't tried a single burner mission before declaring that EWAR doesn't work against them. It's the 1st thing i tried and I spend 3 days training an alt to use an ECM (and FoF light missiles, yay extra 20 dps lol) Griffin and it's ridiculous how easy Burner missions are now.


So now 'EWAR does work' means 'EWAR doesn't work.'? What?

Sounds like scrams work (to slow them down.) Can anyone else c/d?
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#98 - 2014-09-16 14:26:43 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Burner mission do not emulate PvP missions, they were never designed to emulate PvP.


It's kind of like an honourable 1v1 against someone who's cocky enough to tell you his fit ahead of time and has agreed not to warp off.

But no, you're right, it's not similar to a typical pvp experience.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#99 - 2014-09-16 14:28:21 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
If you Do not have sufficient skills for a frigate then I doubt you See fit for a battleship. Burner missions simulate a pvp fight and do not have the purpose to flush isk in your pockets.



No they do not. CCP already stated they DO NOT SIMMULATE PVP. They are just ships as powerful as a player ship can be.

PVP is not in nay form like a burner mission.

For someone who never did solo pvp its as close as it gets.



You sure about that?

Well for some of the missions warp scramblers help a lot. Some players may have seen this module one time during tutorial and then never fitted it again because it had no need do it. Burners are hard hitting targets that can be beaten when countered propperly...much like pvp...and you can be sure the burner has no falcon alt.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#100 - 2014-09-16 15:41:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
but instead force people to buy alts.

This is how people with no friends would see it anyway.


Burned.

Pun fully intended.


HAHA! The irony. Lol