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It is something about having more range and being able to dictate range wins you fights. Covered in some sort of medieval scenario about horses, bows and axes and the general proxyyy nonsense.

As for the hybrid "buff" it is in general a very big disappointment all around outside frigs and I am not really sure why there are so many changes that are intended to make gallente less worse, instead of actually fixing what broke gallente blaster ships 3 years ago(lack of close range efficiency in scenarios blaster ship are suitable) and adjust the rest later on.

Also I keep wondering why I can read more CCP feedback in Eve General than here.

Tanya if you have no clue about the CCP philosophy on balance you will never get your points across. Even a top of the line T2 cruiser is not always designed to fit the top tier guns, mwd and oversized plates/extenders. This might be the job for commandships.

Also long range ship are designed to use more fitting on the weapons leaving less tank and less mobility to compensate for being able to sit out of tackle range... Unfortunately this part of Eve hasn't been looked into since forever and it's somewhat broken. But if you want a MWD on your Eagle you better be prepared to drop tank or fit RCU's.

Pinky

I agree that a ship should not be able to fit everything and to have a great tank, a great cap, great damage and great speed.
But when we come back to the Die-Most we see that we have a ship that MUST go through all optimals of all weapons, through all kind of EWAR, NOS, NEUT EVERYTHING until it can apply some damage.
So lets check out what we can do with our Die-Most:
1. Equip big guns but die before you can get in range.
2. Equip good armor but never come into range.
3. Equip speed, have a sig radius of a Moon with weak tank, get a lot of damage and not being able to do enough damage once in range.

The problem is simple: Since Blaster Boats MUST come into range they MUST equip mods for speed. This is a absolutely MUST and not a stupid nice to have. From this MUST all problems come. You loost a med-slot, a lot of cap, CPU and PG to satisfy this MUST leaving less resources left for tank and damage.
Now you could say that other ships also need to have a MWD. But they do not have to crawl through all that Neut, Nos, Ewar becouse they just shoot at you from a higher distance.

The problem still is the range:
1. A blaster boat has less DPS becouse it looses time while traveling to the target.
2. It is a one way ticket. When you decide to engage you have poor chances to escape and run away if needed. You put everything on one card.
3. If you can not come into range you will be kitet and you will die like a noob while the Cane pilot feels like the ultimative Pro

Becouse of 3 you decide to run away as long as you can or you decide to use other ships for PVP. So you cross train to other ships. This you can see from the kill statistics.

I can not understand why CCP isn't going to fix this properly. They know about this issue, otherwise they would be really stupid which I don't believe they are. So WHY this issue is not going to be adressed with the needed attention.
Who needs half baked fixxes like 5% more tracking and 5 seconds less reload speed when it is clear and obvious that this changes will not fix anything?

Why is there a Gallente bashing for years now? Why is there so much sympathy with Mini from CCP?

I have found my ways to live with that becouse I cross trained to other races. I'm still active in this thread becouse I want this game to become better, with more strategies at PVP and deeper game mechanics. This CCP would achieve if they eventuelly would decide to FIX Hybrids and their plattforms instead of just bringing some useless changes to gain some time.

You allude to some mythical time where hybrids were awesome. Apparently superior to the way hybrids were before the current expansion.

I don't remember it the way you do.
In late 2008 I was soloing 0.0 with Drakes and Brutix's. I also had fun engagements with my close friend Josh, @ the time. We often only used Gallente cruisers, frigates and battle-cruisers.

I had the same difficulty I have today. I did then, before the nano-changes. Honestly, even more so. However, in our dual Thorax's. Josh and myself often caught vagabonds and curses by surprise. Using overheated modules under specific circumstances. (I'm really focusing on cruiser and battle-cruiser class ships here.) Frigates were alot easier to destroy with 90% stasis webifier's, but for engaging cruisers and above. Many ships could use mobile tactics that left Gallente and Minmatar battle-cruisers wanting (Drake, Harbinger).

Frigate engagements were alot more static than it is now (Honestly alot like how battleship engagements are today, but still ended quickly). Gallente frigates range limitations was not a serious issue then. So 90% stasis webifier was greatly effective here.

With battleships. No one has ever argued that 90% stasis webifier was not beneficial to battleships. Battleships had almost no issues dealing with ships of lower classes. Even frigates. However, the Tempest was still able to use it's mobility to effectively stay out of a Megathrons range (stasis webifier range = 13,000meters). The Megathron was loved because so many pilots used them to engage ships of lower classes.

It's alot easier for Gallente ships to catch mobile ships now than they ever did in the past period. Once I catch a vagabond now. I'm overheated (Thorax), often catching a mobile ship off guard. Stasis webifier has the same increase in range with heat it did in the past. Once applied the Vagabond has a velocity decrease. @ 10,000 meters I apply a warp scrambler. The Vagabonds micro-warp-drive is deactivated (caught). His propulsion module cannot be turned on (as long as my warp scrambler is active). Most Vagabonds do not use warp scramblers. So, I have mobility advantage (Thorax). (Damage output and defence)

This is the same tactics you had to do in the past. Although, one module had a more significant ability to limit another vessels mobility. Instead of 2 modules for the same purpose (warp scrambler and 60% stasis webifier).

So this mythical fantasy time were Gallente was popular because apparently they worked (I often pointed Gallente ships were popular for no reason @ the time). Did not exist. In fact. That was the time I switched to MInmatar because I believed Minmatar ships had more options to deal with the environment @ the time and coming changes. Even though. I had no answer for the Myrmidon, Brutix, Vexor, Taranis, and Ishkur @ the time.

All battleships were superior with 90% stasis webifiers. Amarr battleships were still superior to all other battleships @ the time as they are now. Maestroms and Rokhs were still tanking like a boss and killing sh!t even without a stasis webifier. The whole back in the Gallente hayday argument is deluded and fanciful. Good luck with it though. Also, dual propulsion cruisers have been a way to counter the current warp scrambler and stasis webifer mechanics. Not to mention, not even a Hurricane using dual tracking enhancers can track a cruiser orbiting close range with a afterburner. That is not going to be limited to Gallente ships only (also welcome to a year ago when I mentioned this on the forums).

Also, the problem is the weapon system (blaster). By virtue of blaster range. it limits certain hybrid ships to a sub-optimal concept. And make no mistake. Close range weapons are sub-optimal. All of them. No matter if it's auto-cannons without the benefits of tracking enhancers or ship bonuses to range or Heavy assault missiles and blasters.

This is a good reason to post in this thread.
We need to keep bumping it.

Last test on SISI for that horrible Diemost:

5 Neutron Blaster II

6th high slot: empty

Meds
10MN MWD II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Lows
1x800RT
1xEnergised Reactive Membrane II
1xDamage Control II
1xTracking Enhancer II
2x Magnetic Field Stabiliser II

5x Warrior II

515 DPS with Null+Drones - 6.5Km+14Km
700 DPS with Void+Drones -4km+6km

29400 EHP
Cap Stable for 3.5Min everything On


Well, little better for sure but not enough.

That utility high slot is totally useless, just because your cap is so fragile it's better not even try to fit something like useless NOS
Since NOS is useless and that utility slot also, why don't you move this high slot to a med one or a low one?

Med: opens other fitting options like double web or if enough PG to fit cap injector and enjoy MWD'n al around chasing stuff.

Low: actually this one seems more interesting, +1EANM or +1 TE or +1 MFS or something else.

Actually in this current SISI version, with my poor skills, I think this ship needs for about 350+PG and 20% cap recharge just for fittings and cap, crappy estimation but the idea is there.

Then we have range, acceleration, linear speed, dmg application.
While on paper and on fitting window you can easily see the 700DPS number in fact you can not apply it that much.
With Void you mes with your distance first and then with your tracking there where you should have it to track properly your target, so either you're static at optimal and apply said dmg or you move and then it's catastrophic, your dps goes under the floor, removing Void tracking penalty and add some more falloff would help.

Actually my Proteus has those tools, 10% tracking per level + 10% optimal range per level, with sub at level 4 the dmg applied is quite impressive compared with Diemos adn the only difference between both is that I've fitted the Proteus for the same dps but I have +40% tracking and op range.

Doesn't makes the Proteus some sort of Hurricane mark II but this distance difference makes it more versatile without being overpowered. (then some might bring slaves blah blah and I'll ask you about double bonus web/neut Loki or Neut Legion or "I shoot ya from there, k?" Tengu)

So:
-needs more pg/cap recharge

-utility slot moved low (my opinion) or med (most people ask this one)

-linear acceleration better but not enough already with 800RT, with 1600... 1410m/s without OL and my poor skills (950 radius youhou can you see me?)

-Dps bonus on hull it's ok for a ship of this size spit 700dps+ with blasters+drones it's very good.
The main issue is with rails, it's plain crap but this comes from rails themselves and the ammo (needs almost 100% dmg+)

-Tracking issue comes only with short range ammo. Take it away please, give some more op/fall off range (ammo?)
-long range ammo: op/fall off not bad with 1TE but dps it's just...meh? - ammo needs some more dps, 15%

-Rails: even with shield fit 4mfs 2te's it's...crap. Med railguns themselves are in need of a lot more dmg modifier, tracking now it's not bad. Ammo short range is really short (get rid of penalties!) and long range poor dmg.

They are laughing at you.

You thought they were OK before the changes, you were wrong then and you're wrong now.

The changes for blasters didn't go far enough, you're still better off using lasers or projectiles.

Damage multipliers only mean something when considered with the base damage they multiply. Your figures are meaningless Fon.

Let's take a look as they really stand, setup with 3 damage mods and ship bonuses with long range weapons;

Zealot 5 Heavy Beam II; 436 dps @ 23+10 with multi, 290 dps @ 81+10 with aurora

Muninn 5 720mm II; 347 dps @ 18+23 with emp, 232 dps @ 81+22 with tremor

Diemos 5 250mm rail II; 352 dps @ 18+23 with antimatter, 235dps @ 65+23 with spike

Eagle 5 250mm rail II; 282 dps @ 41+15 with antimatter, 188 dps @ 146+15 with spike


amarr has best for close range dps, for long range dps.
amarr and minmatar both project damage further than rails (81km vs 65 for deimos, and laughable damage for eagle so we'll ignore that)
minmatar gets huge alpha as well as virrtually identical dps to gallente (and massively better dps than eagle)
amarr has instant ammo change
minmatar is cap free
minmatar has damage type selection

Where's the benefit of using rails ?

yes please boost rails some more, so our rokh fleet gets even better B)