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High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

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Elusive Panda
Public Enemies CO
The Initiative.
#81 - 2014-08-27 16:29:25 UTC
An instant dock bookmark or even just a tactical off the station to scout would have saved your ship and your cargo.

Now, remind me why CCP should protect you when there were clear and easy step to shield yourself?
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#82 - 2014-08-27 16:37:15 UTC
Seven billion collateral. And it wasn't even paid good. The fail started at the accept button. From Jita no less. This smells more like money laundering. Like those noob-ships full of PLEXes.

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Immortal Chrono Pimpin
Codename-47
Avocado Cartel
#83 - 2014-08-27 16:44:56 UTC
"I keep hearing that ccp wil be doing something about this."

That is very interesting can you verify this op?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#84 - 2014-08-27 16:48:47 UTC
Duchess Amarrian wrote:
Last night my hauling ship got blown sky high. I was flying a prorator and doing some deliveries. The person that shot me down organised it really well by setting up contracts and sucking in the person accepting the contract. I wont go into detail here. As i was making the delivery and just 1 second from being docked into station my ship got blown sky high. From what ? a minmitar Battleship that was so many km's away. It took 2 people to stop me.

I keep hearing that ccp wil be doing something about this. I've just had enough of it. Seriously I'm trying to find some fun in this game and seeing that the others always have the edge over miners and haulers in high sec is a real joke. I don't mind if it had happened in low sec and null but when your playing by ccp rules to me it seems there are no rules and high sec is really a joke.

At the very least give miners and haulers some big guns like you give others and maybe will balance things well.

The two that got me are "Luukje" and "Natural CloneKiller". I put up a big bounty on Luk so enjoy your hunting.

cheers




When you hit the "dock" button, the game is supposed to warp you into docking range of the station and dock you, without any chance for you to be caught. But there is a bug: Sometimes the game warps you too far away from the station to dock immediately, and you are vulnerable for several seconds. I have heard that this can be petitioned, and you may get your ship back. BUT you will not get any dropped loot back. (That has always been true for any ship loss due to a bug or exploit.)

One way to get around this bug is to make a bookmark as close to the station as you can. When you warp to that bookmark you will always be in docking range and can dock quickly.

Another trick is to place a bookmark well away from the station, but in an odd direction. A direction where there are no stargates. The gankers tend to collect in the area where ships drop out of warp, so their short range, high damage weapons will do a fast kill before CONCORD shows. If you come to the station from an odd direction, they will all be out of range.

So until CCP fixes this bug, everyone should make a "Dogleg" bookmark and a "Quick dock" bookmark at every station they frequent. Make alot of them, copy them, share them.

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Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2014-08-27 16:50:09 UTC
CCP already has taken care of this issue in the form of tanking modules and cloaking devices. Seriously, how do you get blown up in high-sec when your ship has a covops cloak?

Still, hopefully you will prepare for this possibility in the future so it isn't all too bad.
Phugoid
Absolute Order XL
Absolute Honor
#86 - 2014-08-27 17:00:21 UTC
wait a minute....ur toon is old enough to afford a 7 bil coll? and you are crying about not being protected?

I take back my sympathies!

Flugzeugführer
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#87 - 2014-08-27 17:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Vincent Athena wrote:
When you hit the "dock" button, the game is supposed to warp you into docking range of the station and dock you, without any chance for you to be caught.
No, it's not. It's simply supposed to warp you to the station, and then dock. Warping works as normal, docking works as normal, being caught in-between the two works as normal. If your warp lands you within <2,500 of the docking radius, that is working as normal too because that's how WTZ always works.

Quote:
But there is a bug: Sometimes the game warps you too far away from the station to dock immediately, and you are vulnerable for several seconds.
That is not a bug — it's standard warp behaviour.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#88 - 2014-08-27 17:27:28 UTC
Duchess Amarrian wrote:
...organised it really well by setting up contracts and sucking in the person accepting the contract. I wont go into detail here.

Are you telling us here, that you didn't protect your hauler by accepting the contract with an alt?

Remove standings and insurance.
Grim Hood
Kingsparrow Wormhole Division
Birds of Prey.
#89 - 2014-08-27 17:33:48 UTC
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#90 - 2014-08-27 17:46:17 UTC
Jur Tissant wrote:
CCP already has taken care of this issue in the form of tanking modules and cloaking devices. Seriously, how do you get blown up in high-sec when your ship has a covops cloak?

Ive had it happen. You uncloak when you are dumped 800 meters off the station. Before your ship moves that last 300 meters and starts docking, you get exploded.

Hence: The need for quick dock bookmarks.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#91 - 2014-08-27 17:49:00 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
When you hit the "dock" button, the game is supposed to warp you into docking range of the station and dock you, without any chance for you to be caught.
No, it's not. It's simply supposed to warp you to the station, and then dock. Warping works as normal, docking works as normal, being caught in-between the two works as normal. If your warp lands you within <2,500 of the docking radius, that is working as normal too because that's how WTZ always works.

Quote:
But there is a bug: Sometimes the game warps you too far away from the station to dock immediately, and you are vulnerable for several seconds.
That is not a bug — it's standard warp behaviour.

Except CCP has reimbursed ships lost this way. I'll not say who or where, as I cannot discuss petitions. But it has happened, and my research indicates it has happened within the last month.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#92 - 2014-08-27 17:52:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Vincent Athena wrote:
Except CCP has reimbursed ships lost this way. I'll not say who or where, as I cannot discuss petitions. But it has happened, and my research indicates it has happened within the last month.

Incompetent GMs is the bug, then, not the standard warp behaviour.

Oh, and you can discuss petitions just fine — you just can't quote personal GM communication.
Nico Laitanen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2014-08-27 17:58:43 UTC
There's a new game called "Star Citizen" coming out in about a year or so. From what I've read, it's game mechanics may be more to your liking. But, until then, vOv.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#94 - 2014-08-27 18:02:36 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Seven billion collateral. And it wasn't even paid good. The fail started at the accept button. From Jita no less. This smells more like money laundering. Like those noob-ships full of PLEXes.


I don't know a thing about money laundering but I honestly doubt that ships full of PLEX are a reliable way to do it, given the 50% chance of losing it all.

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Prince Kobol
#95 - 2014-08-27 18:07:06 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Jur Tissant wrote:
CCP already has taken care of this issue in the form of tanking modules and cloaking devices. Seriously, how do you get blown up in high-sec when your ship has a covops cloak?

Ive had it happen. You uncloak when you are dumped 800 meters off the station. Before your ship moves that last 300 meters and starts docking, you get exploded.

Hence: The need for quick dock bookmarks.


I've experienced where I've hit dock, the loading screen appears and then I was sitting in my pod.

Petitioned it, wasn't interested in getting anything back as it was just a frig, standard T2 fit with an empty cargo hold but was curious.

According to the GM when the loading screen appears your ship is still in space. So even thou you think you are safe, those 1 or 2 secs you are still sitting in space.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2014-08-27 18:08:48 UTC
Wild @ss idea CCP should of stuck with, to stop the whining so the forum hamster's don't have to be running 24/7 with only a short break.

1. No market skills, its seeded straight from NPC source. NPC isk sink? You all whine about SOANDSO and XYZ factor type makes to much isk......well, if you stop trading it around now its just a grind to be able to afford to fly anything. CCP can at anytime just raise/lower the cost as needed.

2. Industry skills...seriously why would anybody waste their damn time with that boring grind. Minesweeper and Solitaire are more complex then the sit in asteroid belt, target rock, hit F1, wait till hold full, blow up to random bored dude hiding in high sec cause he can't take being blown up in low/null (this isn't the miner, this is the ganker...cause he is protected by CONCORD). And the POS set up....second job, games are for fun not a second grind.

3. Trade skills....remove them. Contracts. Remove them. Everything is NPC seeded, NPC isk sink, CCP discretion when something is to cheap and/or expensive.

4. ???

5. Problem solved. Less interaction through scams, less whining from dudes who should already know how EVE is meant to play (paranoid, don't lose what you cannot afford), more PEW PEW without the stupid obvious traps set up that induce the whines.

Like I said, wild @ss idea. Just lock target and explode people, don't need to lead them on to catch them.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#97 - 2014-08-27 18:12:52 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Wild @ss idea CCP should of stuck with, to stop the whining so the forum hamster's don't have to be running 24/7 with only a short break.
You got one thing right at least: it's an ass idea. Let's break vast portions of the game because some players are too incompetent to play it.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#98 - 2014-08-27 18:19:48 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Wild @ss idea CCP should of stuck with, to stop the whining so the forum hamster's don't have to be running 24/7 with only a short break.

1. No market skills, its seeded straight from NPC source. NPC isk sink? You all whine about SOANDSO and XYZ factor type makes to much isk......well, if you stop trading it around now its just a grind to be able to afford to fly anything. CCP can at anytime just raise/lower the cost as needed.

2. Industry skills...seriously why would anybody waste their damn time with that boring grind. Minesweeper and Solitaire are more complex then the sit in asteroid belt, target rock, hit F1, wait till hold full, blow up to random bored dude hiding in high sec cause he can't take being blown up in low/null (this isn't the miner, this is the ganker...cause he is protected by CONCORD). And the POS set up....second job, games are for fun not a second grind.

3. Trade skills....remove them. Contracts. Remove them. Everything is NPC seeded, NPC isk sink, CCP discretion when something is to cheap and/or expensive.

4. ???

5. Problem solved. Less interaction through scams, less whining from dudes who should already know how EVE is meant to play (paranoid, don't lose what you cannot afford), more PEW PEW without the stupid obvious traps set up that induce the whines.

Like I said, wild @ss idea. Just lock target and explode people, don't need to lead them on to catch them.

It's called X-Afterbirth, you should buy it and stop shitting up the Eve forums with your ill thought out, game breaking idiocy.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Charax Bouclier
Silvershield Universal
#99 - 2014-08-27 18:28:54 UTC
Rookie here, just trying to understand the mistake for my own purposes. Let's exclude the "shoulda used an alt/not accept the obvious scam" dialogue.

OK, guy is with his cloaked hauler, and in the system where he wants to dock and selects the dock option.

From what I understand, you lose cloak when you initiate dock and/or are within 2 KM of any object. Some say a bookmark should be set beside the station and that you should warp there and dock. In either case, you're in range of the ganker, so I guess we're somehow talking about which approach saves you a tiny bit of time docking which may save yor buns.

If someone just took the dock approach, I am guessing that you might not immediately be in docking range and/or the gankers might be camped in that jump location to force a decloak as soon as you exit warp and start blasting before a dock procedure can be engaged/completed.

Am I understanding this correctly? Sorry...rookie here. Just might be cheaper for me to learn from OTHER people's mistakes than my own. :)
Prince Kobol
#100 - 2014-08-27 18:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Charax Bouclier wrote:
Rookie here, just trying to understand the mistake for my own purposes. Let's exclude the "shoulda used an alt/not accept the obvious scam" dialogue.

OK, guy is with his cloaked hauler, and in the system where he wants to dock and selects the dock option.

From what I understand, you lose cloak when you initiate dock and/or are within 2 KM of any object. Some say a bookmark should be set beside the station and that you should warp there and dock. In either case, you're in range of the ganker, so I guess we're somehow talking about which approach saves you a tiny bit of time docking which may save yor buns.

If someone just took the dock approach, I am guessing that you might not immediately be in docking range and/or the gankers might be camped in that jump location to force a decloak as soon as you exit warp and start blasting before a dock procedure can be engaged/completed.

Am I understanding this correctly? Sorry...rookie here. Just might be cheaper for me to learn from OTHER people's mistakes than my own. :)



Some stations have terrible docking ranges, in other words when you hit dock you will land just outside the docking range so you will have to fly for a few seconds before you can dock.

What they did to this guys was actually very clever.

They chose a system which was at the end of a pipe so could see him coming way before he actually arrived in system, giving them plenty of time to setup.

Also the stations in that system have horrible docks / undocks.

Rule of thumb is always scout out a route / system with an alt before using it, if you do not have an alt then grab a frig and make a few BM's to minimise the risk.

If you are going to do a lot of courier contracts with expensive cargo, it pays to make BM's of each station your going to visit before hand so when you dock you can land bang at zero and so when do you land it will mostly likely not be camped.