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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps

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IVAN Twistead
Yanomami's Space Pilots
#1541 - 2014-08-27 01:57:14 UTC
Pods go 8-9km away from whs, is this intended? 32 t mass, shouldn't that be closer??
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#1542 - 2014-08-27 02:34:22 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.

what the actual fk mate?
this IS the feedback thread and the feedback is the same as it has been since the second this change was announced: WE HATE IT.
do you guys have a number of threads we need to copy and paste our distaste into before you listen? if so, please tell us what it is.



I almost fell out my chair laughing
Syndiaan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1543 - 2014-08-27 04:26:14 UTC
Kirasten wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.

what the actual fk mate?
this IS the feedback thread and the feedback is the same as it has been since the second this change was announced: WE HATE IT.
do you guys have a number of threads we need to copy and paste our distaste into before you listen? if so, please tell us what it is.



I almost fell out my chair laughing


It was a clear example of a copy and paste script that they were given. CCP Falcon did not read anything he was just told to make a post with that script so he did it.
OMEGA REDUX
Last Resort Inn
#1544 - 2014-08-27 05:03:49 UTC
Syndiaan wrote:
Kirasten wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.

what the actual fk mate?
this IS the feedback thread and the feedback is the same as it has been since the second this change was announced: WE HATE IT.
do you guys have a number of threads we need to copy and paste our distaste into before you listen? if so, please tell us what it is.



I almost fell out my chair laughing


It was a clear example of a copy and paste script that they were given. CCP Falcon did not read anything he was just told to make a post with that script so he did it.

Source for that info? Did someone from ccp confirm this or are you just assuming it?
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#1545 - 2014-08-27 05:14:23 UTC
Bleedingthrough wrote:
calaretu wrote:

Eh. Kite? Snipe? Something else creative? I am sure you guys have more doctrines than pure brawling. The killmail you link is exactly why this change is a good thing. Also have scouts so you know what you jump into so you dont jump a vigi into a t3 sitting and waiting.


I think we have a common ground here: I would love to have a broader spectrum of tactical options and
a WH mechanic that supports them. However, I do not agree that THIS change adds any of this.

In this regard someone in this thread made a damn good proposition:
Make the spawn distant directly proportional to the speed (and maybe inversely proportional to the mass) upon entering.
Maybe also take the entry vector into account.

This certainly has some flaws as well that need to be addressed, but this would truly add something new without destroying the perfectly fine old ways of doing things. It is also exciting because FCs can get creative and come up with doctrines and tactics exploiting these mechanic and combining it with the "old" game of mass and polarization.

Bottom line is: emergent behavior can only spark if the players are able to control their surroundings and if the surroundings are sufficient complex. The change introduced in this patch does the opposite: eliminating tactical options and introducing random deaths.


Yes. There are a lot of ways this change could have been done better. Personally I would like to see direction affect the rng

~Bringer of happiness

http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
Syndiaan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1546 - 2014-08-27 05:19:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Syndiaan
OMEGA REDUX wrote:
Syndiaan wrote:
Kirasten wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.

what the actual fk mate?
this IS the feedback thread and the feedback is the same as it has been since the second this change was announced: WE HATE IT.
do you guys have a number of threads we need to copy and paste our distaste into before you listen? if so, please tell us what it is.



I almost fell out my chair laughing


It was a clear example of a copy and paste script that they were given. CCP Falcon did not read anything he was just told to make a post with that script so he did it.

Source for that info? Did someone from ccp confirm this or are you just assuming it?


--facepalm--
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#1547 - 2014-08-27 05:45:32 UTC
I don't like this change and neither do 95%+ of wormholers.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
XGADuke
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1548 - 2014-08-27 05:46:50 UTC
Hey guys, I would just like to post my feedback on this change...

I've been living in Wormholes for a few months now and I love it. The corp I'm part of has a very small footprint in terms of active players, across the EU and US timezones. During the week, the EU TZ has very few players online, normally between 3 to 6. Most of our PvP engagements happen during the week, where we use an Orca and battleships to roll the hole and look for pew.

So I rolled our static last night, with these new changes. First jump through, 9km's off of the hole, second and third pass, 13kms.

It took an average of 2 mins to get back to the hole to roll again.

Now, in a hostile wormhole, I can totally see this as a conflict driver, "Hey look there is an Orca / Battleship miles off the hole, lets go kill it!". two things could then happen.

1) Orca / BS kill. yay!!! \o/
2) Orca/ BS is bait and a small skirmish erupts. Good times are had people feel good. yay!!! \o/

This is all fine and well, however lets say the wormhole is empty, the residents are offline or not interested. We just need to roll again right? It now takes AGES to roll the hole.

Last weekend, as a corp we spent 3 hours rolling the wormhole looking for pew. In that time we opened and scanned +- 15 different wormholes. And in that time, all we got was a MTU :(

With this mass based spawn distance, 3 hours of hole rolling is going to equate to much less wormholes scanned, probably between 5 and 7. The members in our corp are going to get bored and log off.

I know these numbers might seem low to some other players, but remember, small corp, small footprint. Hell we very rarely have enough pilots online to fill a squad.

Anyway, just my two cents...
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1549 - 2014-08-27 05:57:03 UTC
rolled 2 empty statics in a speedy nidhoggur carrier just now.

Not too bad. Landed 13-16 out, with MWD and a basic speedy fit, 275 m/s.

Rolled in 60 seconds.



Of course rolling with hostiles is going to get interesting. But in the end, I predict what will happen is if a weaker side cannot contest and blue-balls the stronger side, the stronger side will roll the hole themselves. Arrangements can be made, as they say.
Syndiaan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1550 - 2014-08-27 06:02:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Syndiaan
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
rolled 2 empty statics in a speedy nidhoggur carrier just now.

Not too bad. Landed 13-16 out, with MWD and a basic speedy fit, 275 m/s.

Rolled in 60 seconds.



Of course rolling with hostiles is going to get interesting. But in the end, I predict what will happen is if a weaker side cannot contest and blue-balls the stronger side, the stronger side will roll the hole themselves. Arrangements can be made, as they say.


Side A) has 5 capital pilots and 20 subcaps online. Side B) has 5 capitals and 20 subcaps online.

Who is going to jump over and for what reason? A) the fight B) to roll the hole. The answer is no one, we all just sit and orbit our pos for the next 24 hours.

Thanks Obama...
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1551 - 2014-08-27 06:10:00 UTC
I like this change, and so do 95% of non wormholers.

We look forward to invading your space as you cower and cry.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Syndiaan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1552 - 2014-08-27 06:11:27 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
I like this change, and so do 95% of non wormholers.

We look forward to invading your space as you cower and cry.


This change makes it even harder for you to do that so.... you're dumb...
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1553 - 2014-08-27 06:14:48 UTC
Syndiaan wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
I like this change, and so do 95% of non wormholers.

We look forward to invading your space as you cower and cry.


This change makes it even harder for you to do that so.... you're dumb...


No it hasn't, but I'm not an instant gratification crybaby, I can roll with the punches, and have longterm plans.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Syndiaan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1554 - 2014-08-27 06:19:28 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Syndiaan wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
I like this change, and so do 95% of non wormholers.

We look forward to invading your space as you cower and cry.


This change makes it even harder for you to do that so.... you're dumb...


No it hasn't, but I'm not an instant gratification crybaby, I can roll with the punches, and have longterm plans.


Good for you --rolls eyes--

Anyway...
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1555 - 2014-08-27 06:24:18 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Syndiaan wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
I like this change, and so do 95% of non wormholers.
We look forward to invading your space as you cower and cry.

This change makes it even harder for you to do that so.... you're dumb...

No it hasn't, but I'm not an instant gratification crybaby, I can roll with the punches, and have longterm plans.

OH NO, NOT THE DREADED IMPERIAL ACADEMY!!!!

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Syndiaan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1556 - 2014-08-27 06:32:33 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Syndiaan wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
I like this change, and so do 95% of non wormholers.
We look forward to invading your space as you cower and cry.

This change makes it even harder for you to do that so.... you're dumb...

No it hasn't, but I'm not an instant gratification crybaby, I can roll with the punches, and have longterm plans.

OH NO, NOT THE DREADED IMPERIAL ACADEMY!!!!


careful, he has killed a mackinaw. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=23594189
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#1557 - 2014-08-27 06:40:20 UTC
IVAN Twistead wrote:
Pods go 8-9km away from whs, is this intended? 32 t mass, shouldn't that be closer??


So, a few weeks ago everybody was dancing happily and in disbelieve that CCP was going to do positive changes to wormholes.
Then we saw the massjumpdistance. We gave clear feedback that we didn´t want gates. And this quote is the perfect example of how ****** up this change is. About 40 pages ago I posted how horrible this specifc thing was and why Fricking gatemechanics are bad without stations and cynos but with masslimitaions. Yet here we are. No discussion at all, just the "we are very excited about...." like every patch.

There was never any addressing of the issues pointed out, just the good old "we are watching your feedback (but we are right and you are wrong)". Good job sticking to your guns of taking a dump on wormholers every few months. You remember how stunning twosteps election to the CSM was at that time. Then even almost being chairman and getting two people in against the huge nullblobbnumbers?

I wouldn´t be surprised if corbexx was the last wormhole CSM because obviously our feedback and actions do not matter for CCP anyways.

There were hundreds of pages about better suggestions and tweeks dating back years. If the problem was c5/6 rolling, many interesting things out there how to make this better. And that was without even asking for suggestions on that topic. Nope, we get gates because CCP.

And fat chance of CCP going back and reversing or at least making those changes sufferable. How often has that happened?
But now CCP has a new releasescedule and is making small changes over time instead of big leaps without a safety net.

Never again ask for feedback or discussion since it is just a farce.
Syndiaan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1558 - 2014-08-27 06:46:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Syndiaan
Shilalasar wrote:
IVAN Twistead wrote:
Pods go 8-9km away from whs, is this intended? 32 t mass, shouldn't that be closer??


So, a few weeks ago everybody was dancing happily and in disbelieve that CCP was going to do positive changes to wormholes.
Then we saw the massjumpdistance. We gave clear feedback that we didn´t want gates. And this quote is the perfect example of how ****** up this change is. About 40 pages ago I posted how horrible this specifc thing was and why Fricking gatemechanics are bad without stations and cynos but with masslimitaions. Yet here we are. No discussion at all, just the "we are very excited about...." like every patch.

There was never any addressing of the issues pointed out, just the good old "we are watching your feedback (but we are right and you are wrong)". Good job sticking to your guns of taking a dump on wormholers every few months. You remember how stunning twosteps election to the CSM was at that time. Then even almost being chairman and getting two people in against the huge nullblobbnumbers?

I wouldn´t be surprised if corbexx was the last wormhole CSM because obviously our feedback and actions do not matter for CCP anyways.

There were hundreds of pages about better suggestions and tweeks dating back years. If the problem was c5/6 rolling, many interesting things out there how to make this better. And that was without even asking for suggestions on that topic. Nope, we get gates because CCP.

And fat chance of CCP going back and reversing or at least making those changes sufferable. How often has that happened?
But now CCP has a new releasescedule and is making small changes over time instead of big leaps without a safety net.

Never again ask for feedback or discussion since it is just a farce.


^ This...

Only thing I would add is don't ask us for feedback and after weeks of ignoring us sit there and tell US we are being rude and disrespectful just because we are pissed you did not discuss the matter with us.
Valenthe de Celine
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1559 - 2014-08-27 07:00:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Valenthe de Celine
Well the changes went live, unadulterated, in all their gristly horror. I unsubbed 10 accounts today, citing this one change as the reason. Let see if any of that matters before the time remaining runs out. CCP refuses to listen to us as players. Lets see how much they listen to their accountants.

Until these changes are repealed CCP isn't going to earn a cent off me. Time to demonstrate a little conviction over what is and isn't tolerable for changes to our play environment. While they can take my WH mechanics from me, I'll be damned if I pay them to do it. The last bastion of small corp controlled space is lost due to these changes.
dirtydebbs
the wreking crew
#1560 - 2014-08-27 07:06:55 UTC
Not sure how everyone else's spawning was last night but according to the unknown blog
A covert ops should spawn 0-5.5km from the wh but me and two other corpys last night consistently spawnd
From 7.5km+ every wh?

If the mass based is that far off then I'd hate to jumping caps about as that's added a minimum of 2+km and that could very much
Patentionaly mean your defo out of rep range from a triage carrier