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CCP Response Regarding SOMER Blink Concerns

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Succendus Tegimens
Hey Fatty With Your Thick Face
#221 - 2014-08-20 21:26:05 UTC
Lae Allier wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Brahan Seer wrote:

Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice.


Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Somer however, were offering ISK credits last year and then attempting to do the same through a PLEX buyback program. They aren't comparable like you're attempting to portray.


Sorry but the companys you just mentioned are run as a business model and make real money out of it so that too is against CCP rules so I want to see the owners banned publicly as well, as it states

- Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.

All of the formentioned "companys" recieve real money as a result of EVE Online. I will be pursuing this further !


We are quaking in our boots that some rando renter is mad.

TMC is not RMT. CCP investigated us last year and told us to abide by a set of community guidelines which clearly state that we may only give ISK to writers if they are writing about EVE. We follow those guidelines to the letter; I should know, I do all payroll calculations and the very first step is "did they write about EVE or another game."

Sites like TMC, EN24, CZ, zKill, and so on are not RMT, as laid out by CCP in the afterment of Somergate 1.0. You can flail your arms and scream until you are blue in the face, but you are wrong. Not just from CCP's angle, but by the angle of any person with a brain.

So lay this out like it really is. You're a disgruntled nobody angry at goons because ~goons~ and you're lashing out. Be honest with yourself.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#222 - 2014-08-20 21:26:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

31. Rumor mongering is prohibited.

Rumor threads and posts which are based off no actual solid information and are designed to either troll or annoy other users will be locked and removed. These kinds of threads and posts are detrimental to the well being and spirit of the EVE Online Community, and can create undue panic among forum users, as well as adding to the workload of our moderators.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Amantus
Drexciyan Sea Unit
SPACE DETROIT
#223 - 2014-08-20 22:00:20 UTC
this suck's man! i had some plex credits to use!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#224 - 2014-08-20 22:00:49 UTC
Again, if you feel that TMC is doing RMT, report them. security@ccpgames.com

Just don't get mad and all "grrrr ccp is goons" when nothing happens, because you'd be refusing to acknowledge the significantly more likely possibility that you're simply wrong about it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
CCP Falcon
#225 - 2014-08-20 22:01:06 UTC
A quick point of note:

I'm the one moderating this thread, so the more you spam it and cause issues, the more time it's going to take for you to get answers to the questions I'm trying to respond to.

Also, break the forum rules, and you'll lose your posting privileges.

Answers to questions incoming once I've cleaned up the mess.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Dutow Sa
Jupiter Fleet
#226 - 2014-08-20 22:01:59 UTC
CCP Manifest wrote:
AkJon Ferguson wrote:
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

"Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being “approved by CCP.” But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement,"

In other words: Yes, the promotion was approved by CCP. But we didn't give him permission to tell people that it was approved by CCP.


Actually the promotion as it was enacted was not approved by us--nor was it the same as one they had discussed with us previously. That part is in the paragraph after the one you quoted.

So what you quoted above is us saying that we didn't give permission to SOMER Blink to say the non-approved promotion was approved by us.

As, one would imagine would be a thing we would do.


Based on the document published by Somer, he did run the same promotion, OR he published another document, not the one sent to you.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#227 - 2014-08-20 22:04:40 UTC
Dutow Sa wrote:
CCP Manifest wrote:
AkJon Ferguson wrote:
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

"Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being “approved by CCP.” But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement,"

In other words: Yes, the promotion was approved by CCP. But we didn't give him permission to tell people that it was approved by CCP.


Actually the promotion as it was enacted was not approved by us--nor was it the same as one they had discussed with us previously. That part is in the paragraph after the one you quoted.

So what you quoted above is us saying that we didn't give permission to SOMER Blink to say the non-approved promotion was approved by us.

As, one would imagine would be a thing we would do.


Based on the document published by Somer, he did run the same promotion, OR he published another document, not the one sent to you.

Then you didn't read it very carefully, because it outright lies about the incentive offered by the promotion.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Madora Galtaki
Annie's Teddy Bear Productions
#228 - 2014-08-20 22:06:02 UTC
I know there are a lot of players out there who are saying good riddance to SomerBlink, but there are also a great many of us who are greatly saddened in saying goodbye to Somer.

Playing on SomerBlink is the biggest reason I have maintained an active account for the past year. In the five years that I've been playing Eve, my account has had a lot of sporadic inactive time. Blink has given me a reason to keep my account active even when I needed to take a break from Eve. I never participated in the recent PLEX buying service, but I enjoyed playing blinks and promos and participating in celebration events. I personally know a person whose account was inactive for nearly two years, had no intention of ever returning to Eve, and is only active now because of SomerBlink and his interest in playing the raffles with in-game currency.

In answer to those who doubt that Eve players with a Blink Credit balance will ever see that ISK again, I have already been issued a deposit from Blink's corporate account in game. I'm sure there are a lot of players to compensate.

I can't say I'm dissatisfied with the way CCP has handled the situation. As a player with an invested interest in Blink, I am appreciative of the public updates made by CCP.

Goodbye Somer, I will greatly miss you. Sad
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#229 - 2014-08-20 22:06:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Brahan Seer wrote:
Well you pay ISk for siggy / Killboardz that isk than goes to a corprations account.
…and that does not make it a business. You can't pay your bills with ISK, you know.

Madora Galtaki wrote:
I know there are a lot of players out there who are saying good riddance to SomerBlink, but there are also a great many of us who are greatly saddened in saying goodbye to Somer.

Playing on SomerBlink is the biggest reason I have maintained an active account for the past year. In the five years that I've been playing Eve, my account has had a lot of sporadic inactive time. Blink has given me a reason to keep my account active even when I needed to take a break from Eve. I never participated in the recent PLEX buying service, but I enjoyed playing blinks and promos and participating in celebration events. I personally know a person whose account was inactive for nearly two years, had no intention of ever returning to Eve, and is only active now because of SomerBlink and his interest in playing the raffles with in-game currency.

I wouldn't worry. The lottery is a fun enough idea that someone will pick it up and run with it soon enough and you'll be right back to cursing your luck. Blink

If there's anything the last decade has shown, it is that if there's a market, someone will provide. With this, a huge market opportunity just opened up.
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#230 - 2014-08-20 22:06:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrick Tallardar
Brahan Seer wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Brahan Seer wrote:
Well you pay ISk for siggy / Killboardz that isk than goes to a corprations account. Which i assume is used for something, if its not why do those sites charge isk? Now theorethically if that ISK really just sits in a corp wallet and is never touched sure I would agree its not for business purposes and no violation occurring. But do either of us really think those piggy banks aren't touched by the players who created those services?

That's not a business. CCP explicitly allows payment in ISK for EVE related services, such as creating sigs and banners, running servers for Teamspeak/Mumble/Jabber/etc., and writing articles.



How is it not a business? What stops them from selling PLEX or ISK or whatever? They should be fully investigated just like Somer. Cause it is a Business just becausee a business doesn't make money doesn't mean its not a business.


Since you seem to be dead set on this: CCP Manifest or CCP Falcon can you please comment in reference to my first post in this thread to clarify if sites like EVENews24.com, TheMittani.com etc. are in violation of RMT policy or the other policies and what those other policies are for those who aren't aware? Thanks.

Edit - Referenced post - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4933788#post4933788
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#231 - 2014-08-20 22:08:46 UTC
Dutow Sa wrote:
Based on the document published by Somer, he did run the same promotion, OR he published another document, not the one sent to you.

What his proposal states:
Quote:
Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link.

What actually happened:
Quote:
Blink buys your PLEX at market value plus some extra ISK, provided you gave them IRL money first by buying a GTC through their affiliate link

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#232 - 2014-08-20 22:09:57 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
A quick point of note:

I'm the one moderating this thread, so the more you spam it and cause issues, the more time it's going to take for you to get answers to the questions I'm trying to respond to.

Also, break the forum rules, and you'll lose your posting privileges.

Answers to questions incoming once I've cleaned up the mess.

I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, but what will happen to the Somerblink corporate account now that the founder is gone? Will the isk and assets be frozen once refunds/reimbursements have been completed, or will the surviving people with access have unfettered access to what remains? Also, is CCP watching for any potential isk laundering during these reimbursement transfers? With the amount of isk involved, I would imagine there would be temptation to make billions, if not trillions, quietly disappear and perhaps be used in the future for nefarious purposes.
Dutow Sa
Jupiter Fleet
#233 - 2014-08-20 22:13:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dutow Sa
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Dutow Sa wrote:
Based on the document published by Somer, he did run the same promotion, OR he published another document, not the one sent to you.

What his proposal states:
Quote:
Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link.

What actually happened:
Quote:
Blink buys your PLEX at market value plus some extra ISK, provided you gave them IRL money first by buying a GTC through their affiliate link


Yeah, but a few lines above that:

Quote:
(so you can't just go buy PLEX in Jita and resell them to Blink for more than you paid)


The last paragraph is about this too.

To me, it's very clear from that document, that he intended to buy plex from players above market price. And it's very hard to interpret it any other way...

edit: but it also doesn't change my question: is this the document sent to CCP for approvement, or not? Because if it is that, then it works the same way...
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
#234 - 2014-08-20 22:16:42 UTC
Ace Boogi wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
A quick point of note:

I'm the one moderating this thread, so the more you spam it and cause issues, the more time it's going to take for you to get answers to the questions I'm trying to respond to.

Also, break the forum rules, and you'll lose your posting privileges.

Answers to questions incoming once I've cleaned up the mess.

I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, but what will happen to the Somerblink corporate account now that the founder is gone? Will the isk and assets be frozen once refunds/reimbursements have been completed, or will the surviving people with access have unfettered access to what remains? Also, is CCP watching for any potential isk laundering during these reimbursement transfers? With the amount of isk involved, I would imagine there would be temptation to make billions, if not trillions, quietly disappear and perhaps be used in the future for nefarious purposes.


Can't speak for Falcon, but I presume you mean accounts from other people present in the in-game corporation of Somer?

Cause CCP doesn't have corporate or business type accounts.

You can rest assured though they'll watch like a hawk if rules are broken by anyone connected. Or in general.

But yeah, where it comes to in game activities not connected to Somer and his account, technically anyone with access can run off with the loot. EVE's a cold and dark place after all.

Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2014-08-20 22:17:57 UTC
CCP,

- Can you please clarify that one of the reasons that Somer was punnished for was for RMT?
- What about CCP's involement in all of this?

I just feel that punnishing Somer is simply a start to fixing this SomerGate debarcle.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#236 - 2014-08-20 22:19:23 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being “approved by CCP.” But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement, which misled our players, and is no different than someone pretending to be an authorized representative of CCP (look at paragraph 8 of our Terms of Service). This is a serious violation because it undermines the safety and security of EVE.


Having read the leaked E-Mails, there's no way, NO WAY you can say they didn't get authorization and approval. To say anything else is disingenuous at best.

Now we can argue over if what they sent and what they did are the same thing.. Personally I again put the blame on CCP, how could you not ask the single most Obvious question? "How are you going to determine the purchase price?"

And it not going through Legal? That's not the fault of Blink.. He ASKED for it to go through Legal and was told that her authorization is all that was needed.

Don't get me wrong, SomerBink has their fair share of mistakes in this whole process. But all of it, ALL OF IT would have been prevented by a little common sense being applied at CCP.

And this applied to not just this event.. All the Crap Somer took when CCP decided to give Blink Employees special ships.. Or give Blink ships to give out for the celebration?

How about shutting down their "RMT" that you guys ignored for YEARS, while the same time advertising them regularly on the Char Selection Page, and the Community section.


If left to CCP would we even have heard that they got their Authorization? That Somer even asked for it to go to Legal? This to me is more about CCP covering their own ass and giving in to pressure, than actually sorting out the issues that caused this whole mess.
Dutow Sa
Jupiter Fleet
#237 - 2014-08-20 22:23:40 UTC
Deka Ekato wrote:
CCP,

- Can you please clarify that one of the reasons that Somer was punnished for was for RMT?
- What about CCP's involement in all of this?

I just feel that punnishing Somer is simply a start to fixing this SomerGate debarcle.


This. Unless you can clarify that he was involved in RMT, this entire situation looks like that you banned him for something that was at least 50% your own fault...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2014-08-20 22:24:01 UTC
Dutow Sa wrote:
To me, it's very clear from that document

Yes, hindsight is 20/20. But remember also that this was in an discussion with the VP of Sales, who may not even play the game at all. And again, he explicitly stated the Blink would offer no extra ISK for buying through the link - a lie.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#239 - 2014-08-20 22:24:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Boogi
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#240 - 2014-08-20 22:25:48 UTC
What are you going to do internally to prevent this from happening in the future?

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