These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP Response Regarding SOMER Blink Concerns

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Blobskillz McBlub
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2014-08-20 20:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
General Nusense wrote:
Remember kiddies, Even if a CCP VP of Sales says its ok and go ahead with your promotion, DONT DO IT.


yes because the *) sales department has *) all to do with legal questions. Get this into your head it's a good lesson for your life when dealing with corporations.

you got legal questions?

WAIT FOR CONFIRMATION FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT


*)=*Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2014-08-20 20:16:35 UTC
General Nusense wrote:
Remember kiddies, Even if a CCP VP of Sales says its ok and go ahead with your promotion, DONT DO IT.


Especially if you leave important bits out from the proposal.

Also SOMER clearly had the opportunity to ask for a signed letter from CCP Legal.

I can only guess that he didn't because he knew they would say "noooooope" and the email from VP of Sales was kinda-maybe-approval. Except turns out it didn't work as get-out-of-jail-free card this time. Ooops.
Edward Harris
Inner Geek
#103 - 2014-08-20 20:17:25 UTC
Blobskillz McBlub wrote:

yes because the ******* sales department has **** all to do with legal questions. Get this into your head it's a good lesson for your life when dealing with corporations.

you got legal questions?

WAIT FOR CONFIRMATION FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT


Oh, I see - so CCP has nothing to do with CCP. I suppose it was too much to expect from a VP POSITION to take care of the LEGAL questions, right? Yeah, totally out of scope and anyways, **** customers..
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#104 - 2014-08-20 20:18:40 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
General Nusense wrote:
Remember kiddies, Even if a CCP VP of Sales says its ok and go ahead with your promotion, DONT DO IT.


Especially if you leave important bits out from the proposal.

Also SOMER clearly had the opportunity to ask for a signed letter from CCP Legal.

I can only guess that he didn't because he knew they would say "noooooope" and the email from VP of Sales was kinda-maybe-approval. Except turns out it didn't work as get-out-of-jail-free card this time. Ooops.


There is also the fact that these private emails were shared without permission or falsified, we as players will probably never know if it was a real or fake emails setup as a way to pass blame and cover tracks.
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#105 - 2014-08-20 20:19:04 UTC
I never liked Somer, his site (which I never played at,) or the degenerate gamblers who made him filthy spacerich, but this was handled exceedingly poorly and pettily by CCP.

If Somer was given approval for what he did by CCP, then he shouldn't have been banned at all and CCP has acted in a despicable manner.

If Somer wasn't given approval for what he did (or if that approval was given and then later explicitly revoked,) then he deserved the same anonymous quiet ban that everybody else gets.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#106 - 2014-08-20 20:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Adrie Atticus wrote:
There was no mention of a ban happening because of the RMT clauses of the EULA but he did disclose (against normal policy) the sections which were used against somer in the ban consideration.

Unless you can summon Falcon to confirm this, the ban had nothing do to with RMT.

In other words, he did not say that there was no proof of RMT. All he said that the results of the investigation of RMT will not be made public, as usual in such investigations.

He listed the EULA violations that were out in the open and undeniable, and said that the ban was for “multiple violations of our EULA and Terms of Service” — no specific number was given. It is entirely your interpretation that not revealing the results of the RMT investigations means there was no RMT and that not accidentally revealing the outcome of the investigation by listing that particular violation as well also means the same thing.

So don't claim that he said things he never said.

*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#107 - 2014-08-20 20:19:38 UTC
Brahan Seer wrote:

Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice.


Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Somer however, were offering ISK credits last year and then attempting to do the same through a PLEX buyback program. They aren't comparable like you're attempting to portray.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2014-08-20 20:19:40 UTC
Edward Harris wrote:
Blobskillz McBlub wrote:

yes because the ******* sales department has **** all to do with legal questions. Get this into your head it's a good lesson for your life when dealing with corporations.

you got legal questions?

WAIT FOR CONFIRMATION FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT


Oh, I see - so CCP has nothing to do with CCP. I suppose it was too much to expect from a VP POSITION to take care of the LEGAL questions, right? Yeah, totally out of scope and anyways, **** customers..

Things that are not sales are out of scope for the VP of Sales, yes. This should not be surprising.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#109 - 2014-08-20 20:20:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
TheMercenaryKing wrote:


There is also the fact that these private emails were shared without permission or falsified, we as players will probably never know if it was a real or fake emails setup as a way to pass blame and cover tracks.


Somer has nothing to gain by faking those details - it would only completely seal their fate with CCP.
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#110 - 2014-08-20 20:21:46 UTC
AkJon Ferguson wrote:
I never liked Somer, his site (which I never played at,) or the degenerate gamblers who made him filthy spacerich, but this was handled exceedingly poorly and pettily by CCP.

If Somer was given approval for what he did by CCP, then he shouldn't have been banned at all and CCP has acted in a despicable manner.

If Somer wasn't given approval for what he did (or if that approval was given and then later explicitly revoked,) then he deserved the same anonymous quiet ban that everybody else gets.

The Somer RMTing openly clusterfuck has gone on for far too long to be resolved quietly, especially after how CCP acted last time. Justice needed to be seen to be done. CCP acted appropriately.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2014-08-20 20:22:50 UTC
What a satisfying week. Thanks CCP

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Marsha Mallow
#112 - 2014-08-20 20:24:05 UTC
Mangala Solaris wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
What kind of Comrades of Stellar Meetings would we be if we didn't march in step?

We've been waiting for spoon thowing competitions for ages now, make it happen P


Would paying Ankh to give us lessons be too much?

Depends who gives permission I guess >.>
If you have pictures of them dancing on a table at 4am in their underwear in some bar in Reyk, prolly best not to leak them though

Steve Ronuken wrote:
The Summit's next month. Any of us flying were for completely different reasons.

Proof that reddit is not to be trusted. Thank gawd for that, I clicked some of their links and aged 20 years.

It's clear there has been group effort here - and everyone involved deserves to be acknowledged. But when issues like this have popped up in the past there has been a problem with player interraction and CCP which exacerbated the raging. It hasn't been the case here, which does restore confidence, and I really don't see why we can't all chant "BECAUSE OF FALCON". Plus he cuffed Dinsdale epically, which was absolutely hilarious.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Alli Ginthur
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#113 - 2014-08-20 20:24:06 UTC
X ATM092 wrote:
AkJon Ferguson wrote:
I never liked Somer, his site (which I never played at,) or the degenerate gamblers who made him filthy spacerich, but this was handled exceedingly poorly and pettily by CCP.

If Somer was given approval for what he did by CCP, then he shouldn't have been banned at all and CCP has acted in a despicable manner.

If Somer wasn't given approval for what he did (or if that approval was given and then later explicitly revoked,) then he deserved the same anonymous quiet ban that everybody else gets.

The Somer RMTing openly clusterfuck has gone on for far too long to be resolved quietly, especially after how CCP acted last time. Justice needed to be seen to be done. CCP acted appropriately.


The mob needed to see the execution publicly for everyone to be appeased. Roll

The whole E1 debacle ended with a anonymous quiet ban. This should have happened here also. But what's done is done.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#114 - 2014-08-20 20:24:55 UTC
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask."


Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#115 - 2014-08-20 20:25:37 UTC
I would like to thank Falcon (who has been loosing sleep related to this!) and the rest of CCP for being so up front and transparent with the players on this issue.


I would also like to point and laugh at Somer... dude you had a freaking GOOD THING .. a pile of isk i could never dream of amassing... and you just blew it because you got greedy.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Sion Kumitomo
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2014-08-20 20:25:37 UTC
Edward Harris wrote:
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
In the handbook of “How Not to Get Permabanned,” not publishing private communications between you and the VP of global sales is on page one. Classic novice mistake.


So Mr. Goon-CSM, just out of curiosity, how would you have reacted if your account got suspended and everything was shut down without any notification? I see it as an act of desperation, since they apparently had an OK from a VP position. I suppose that word means nothing.
Btw, if you want to be official about it - do you see any disclaimer in those statements? I know we use them in our company.

This is still a fault of CCPs lack of internal communication and you are taking it out on a player. Good job.
My trust in CCP has dropped to zero and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this is an outrage.


It's funny you ask that, as this exact situation actually did happen to a goon CSM. His account was suspended temporarily due to reasons, and he then aided CCP in their investigation, cooperated, and after about a month, his account was restored.

Had he instead started blasting internal emails, I expect he'd have been banned too.

On twitter @siggonK
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#117 - 2014-08-20 20:25:47 UTC
X ATM092 wrote:
AkJon Ferguson wrote:
I never liked Somer, his site (which I never played at,) or the degenerate gamblers who made him filthy spacerich, but this was handled exceedingly poorly and pettily by CCP.

If Somer was given approval for what he did by CCP, then he shouldn't have been banned at all and CCP has acted in a despicable manner.

If Somer wasn't given approval for what he did (or if that approval was given and then later explicitly revoked,) then he deserved the same anonymous quiet ban that everybody else gets.

The Somer RMTing openly clusterfuck has gone on for far too long to be resolved quietly, especially after how CCP acted last time. Justice needed to be seen to be done. CCP acted appropriately.


To be frank CCP has had long enough to see what Somer is doing and deal with it quietly - given the level of integration with ads and promotions, etc. there is no way they didn't know what was going on and have pretty much given both tacit and actual approval, I'm not entirely comfortable with them then turning around and banning Somer now it smacks of appeasement of the baying mob.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#118 - 2014-08-20 20:26:49 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

However, SOMER Blink has offered to reimburse ISK to players as part of their closure....


yeah but they are banned. So how should this reinbursement work now? Or are they about to be banned once they are done?

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Edward Harris
Inner Geek
#119 - 2014-08-20 20:27:55 UTC
dexington wrote:

Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?


That's fine, since Goons like TMC and dont whine about possible RMTing on the forums. I'm sure at least 75% of CSM approves.
Welcome to Goons-Online
Brahan Seer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2014-08-20 20:28:22 UTC
dexington wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask."


Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?



Gotta remember CCP doesn't care about fair. If Somerset deserved a perma ban so does TMC Siggy Killboards Dotlan etc. And that part isn't even the most obviously point to ban them all they play eve have eve accounts and are a business. That is clear as DAY in the EULA. ban them all or none at all stop treating this as a religious all you can eat buffet and choosing some rules to enforce on some people all or nothing PERIOD