These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Iain Cariaba
#2561 - 2014-08-15 16:20:35 UTC
Heinrich Erquilenne wrote:
Arkady Romanov wrote:
Samantha Floyd wrote:
As of right now fitting a max tanked freighter still leaves you as a potential target to be killed.


Good. No undocked ship should be 100% safe from death.


That doesn't mean ships should be 100% not safe to fly. Since eve is a pvp game every ship should be able to do something in a competitive pvp environment on its own, instead of the old "rely on others" which always end up in a boring "rely on alts" thing. Med and high slots + rigs for freighters seems to be a legitimate request to me but that's just me. The freighter pilot should be able to fit a MWD or a cloak just like every single other ship in game. I don't see why carrying stuff should always make you the fat loot pinata some people like because they like easy targets which can't fight back. I would even go as far as adding a small drone bay so that freighter pilots can fit ecm drones.

Freighters, in fact, are able to do something in a competitive PvP environment on its own. It can haul more than any other hull. Its drawback is that it's potentially a giant loot pinata, unless you're smart.

Ohh, let's put a cloak on a freighter.... seriously? Given the align times of a freighter, how hard do you really think it would be to decloak one on a gate? Let's not even get into the fact that the biggest problem with freighters is the freighter pilots themselves who think it's ok to dump several billion isk worth of crap into a slow, fat hull then hit autopilot and go watch a movie. An AFK autopiloting freighter pilot is not able to use a cloak. Unless it's a covops cloak, you still can't warp cloaked, which means you have to decloak and recover the 50% velocity you didn't have cause you were cloaked.

The largest mwd in the game still won't provide enough thrust to give a hull the size of a freighter any significant speed increase. Hop on Sisi and put a 1mn mwd on a battleship and see how much increase you get, that's comparable to putting a 100mn mwd on a freighter. Unless you add a capital sized mwd to the game, there's no point in letting freighters use one, and a capital mwd is it's own can of worms.

ECM drones?. Ok, let's make the ganker fleets add ond more guy to the fleet to compensate for the one guy that might get jammed. How long do you think it'll be before some carebear sees a suspect flag on overview and unleashes his horde of t1 hornets on someone's hurricane? You know it'll happen.

Hauling does not "always make you the fat loot pinata." It's the pilot of the freighter that does that, not the ship itself.
Iain Cariaba
#2562 - 2014-08-15 16:47:31 UTC
Airto TLA wrote:
I real dislike care bear PvP tough guys, they really annoy me. They will exploit every corner to get a stupidly unfair fight. Then they whine like three year olds every time some makes them work a little harder.

As opposed to the carebears who whine incessantly for more and more nerfs, and when CCP delivers, not only ignores everything CCP did for them, they want even more. Search the forums. The same day Kronos was released and they got the ability to tank freighters, there were posts on forums for further nerfs to ganking.

I don't really see how adapting to the changes and regaining the advantage, while arguing against the people who can't accept what they get and continously cry for even more, is whining like a three year old. Generally, it's the three year olds who are always wanting more. Tell you what, next time you're in walmart and there's some kid crying in an isle cause its parent won't buy them a candy bar, go tell the parent to stop whining and give the kid what they want. See how well that goes for you.


Airto TLA wrote:
High Sec has its protections, because unharmed haulers are slow easy targets, just ask any null sec guy why industry is so hard there. It is not the production lines or the lack of materials as much the complete lack of an ability to move them (without Jump freighters and their inherent cheesiness).

This is incorrect.

Highsec does not have any protections. What it has are consequences. Consequences are not protection against those willing to pay them.

Null industry is not hard, where do you think all those supers are produced? Why is most stuff made in highsec then? Because there's far less risk to build there and jump freighter it out. People in null are entirely capable of moving freighters around, since ihubs and upgrades don't fit in jump freighters.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#2563 - 2014-08-15 19:01:42 UTC
For the heroes, an inspirational story on the Yoda of ganking.

For the villainous pansies, a guide on avoiding ganking.

For the ladies, free moustache rides.

That is all.

F

Would you like to know more?
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#2564 - 2014-08-15 19:09:51 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
120+ pages and people still want to stick their heads in the sand.

I would like to see EvE grow. EvE has been lucky due to a lack of competition. It is a niche game. At some point someone will invent a user friendly space game and then truly the bitter vets will have EvE to themselves. And then when they realize that there are no newbies to exploit they will slowly leave blaming most likely someone else.

IMHO a problem with EvE is that it follows EvE logic. People say EvE is hard. I disagree. I say Eve is not intuitive because it follows it own logic. This is by choice and IMHO self limiting.

Take for instance miner bumping. Two objects collide and the net result is....nothing? Here would be a simple solution that is both logical and support both sides. Bumping causes damage based upon the force of the collision. Wow, what a concept.

A second minor change would benefit miners, miner bumpers, gankers and gankees. There are no criminal effects until shields are depleted. In other words until you can show the officer damage he will not show up to write a ticket (or blow you up).

This would allow people to bump, within reason. It would also allow people to shoot anyone anywhere as long as they didn't go past shields.

But the second you cross the easily recognizable, well defined line the consequences should be sudden and without escape in hi sec. This concept is easy to understand and dos not require a whole lot of "if this then" thinking.

People should not have to read a tutorial or watch a YouTube video to understand how to do the simplest things in a GAME.

This is just a taste of logic that EvE could use. Now bring on the bitter vets who say EvE is about adapting, as long as it means everybody but them.



1. Collision mechanics would make the jita undock scrap free for all warfare or CONCORD Splam fest as people triggered illegal aggression undocking their freighters. This could also be exploited very easily if it triggered CONCORD aggro.

2. No the gank begins when the first shot is fired, if i can sit there and peck a way a skiff's shields and then volley out its armor in a 0.5 before CONCORD responds it defeats the purpose of the buff to their tank. and makes shield tanks useless if you fly anything someone would want to gank.

3. This isn't adapting this is just bad

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#2565 - 2014-08-15 19:19:28 UTC
Heinrich Erquilenne wrote:
Arkady Romanov wrote:
Samantha Floyd wrote:
As of right now fitting a max tanked freighter still leaves you as a potential target to be killed.


Good. No undocked ship should be 100% safe from death.


That doesn't mean ships should be 100% not safe to fly. Since eve is a pvp game every ship should be able to do something in a competitive pvp environment on its own, instead of the old "rely on others" which always end up in a boring "rely on alts" thing. Med and high slots + rigs for freighters seems to be a legitimate request to me but that's just me. The freighter pilot should be able to fit a MWD or a cloak just like every single other ship in game. I don't see why carrying stuff should always make you the fat loot pinata some people like because they like easy targets which can't fight back. I would even go as far as adding a small drone bay so that freighter pilots can fit ecm drones.


I dont have such an issue with mid slot freighters, but you have to be sure they cant fit a damage control because at that point youve crossed the line into way too OP. Hence why i also disagree with the cloak idea

1. your not hard to decloak
2. thats almost enough CPU for a damage control unless it gets a reduction to CPU use which makes it a cloaky 9/10

Now as for a small drone bay i have no issues with that either, but realistically ECM drones will jam 1 dude which usually wont stop the gank since ganking is about overkilling the target, not getting exactly what you need to kill it. And carrying things only makes YOU a loot piniata if YOU put the several billion in loot inside the freighter and then take no precautions to keep any of it safe.

You know fitting an actual tank, implants, web it into warp, anti bump ships, logi escort, combat escort. etc.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2566 - 2014-08-15 21:30:14 UTC
Airto TLA wrote:

I am going to pick this one out of the, several. Since the analogy used was the worst.



I'm not going to say anything about the rest of your post, but it is horribly wrong nonetheless.

I will however point out that you suck at sarcasm.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#2567 - 2014-08-16 06:37:54 UTC
Honestly I don't understand the will for nerfs to ganking. If people simply followed the Law of Highsec they would be completely safe. Carebears baffle me.

Together we can make Highsec a better place! www.lawofhighsec.com

Read it, share it, learn it, quote it, memorize it,  live it, breathe it!
Verlyn
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#2568 - 2014-08-16 11:37:46 UTC
Noragli wrote:

I wonder how many cancel their subscription.


shut up
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2569 - 2014-08-16 12:04:09 UTC
Airto TLA wrote:
I real dislike care bear PvP tough guys, they really annoy me.

that's ok i'm sure you'll do nothing about it
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2570 - 2014-08-16 12:07:55 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Airto TLA wrote:
I real dislike care bear PvP tough guys, they really annoy me.

that's ok i'm sure you'll do nothing about it


They never do.

DMC was threatening me for a while about an offhanded comment I made. Thus far, nothing. My favorite part was when he outright admitted that he abuses the petition system by getting his friends to report people on his behalf.

If they had any spines, or the ability to back up what they said, they wouldn't be who they are in the first place.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#2571 - 2014-08-16 12:51:15 UTC
Rabe Raptor wrote:
Honestly I don't understand the will for nerfs to ganking. If people simply followed the Law of Highsec they would be completely safe. Carebears baffle me.


While I do enjoy the antics of the CODE, you shouldn't push this notion of 'completely safe', as it is untrue, has never been true, and for so long as EVE is EVE will never be true. There will always be predation, and to try to push your dogma as some kind of magical shield against it is unfair to those who you're trying to convert. Yes, the code is full of ship-saving material, but until you and yours man up to the responsibility of protecting those who fall under your shield from those who don't give 1/15th of a rats hindquarters about it (yes, you may have guessed, but they do exist), the safety that comes from following it is only safety from you and yours.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#2572 - 2014-08-16 13:14:45 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Rabe Raptor wrote:
Honestly I don't understand the will for nerfs to ganking. If people simply followed the Law of Highsec they would be completely safe. Carebears baffle me.


While I do enjoy the antics of the CODE, you shouldn't push this notion of 'completely safe', as it is untrue, has never been true, and for so long as EVE is EVE will never be true. There will always be predation, and to try to push your dogma as some kind of magical shield against it is unfair to those who you're trying to convert. Yes, the code is full of ship-saving material, but until you and yours man up to the responsibility of protecting those who fall under your shield from those who don't give 1/15th of a rats hindquarters about it (yes, you may have guessed, but they do exist), the safety that comes from following it is only safety from you and yours.


Since the law outlines warping away if you see gankships on d-scan please give me a reasonable scenario that doesn't save you. An opponent throwing two SBs at a retriever or something? cmon.

Together we can make Highsec a better place! www.lawofhighsec.com

Read it, share it, learn it, quote it, memorize it,  live it, breathe it!
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#2573 - 2014-08-16 13:43:13 UTC
Um. People die in high sec all the time from things that are not ganks. I know. I've killed a handful of them, others I know have killed more. I'm just saying that it's unkind to preach a notion of complete safety when such a thing doesn't truly exist, regardless of how much good advice you follow.

Like I said earlier, I don't disapprove of the CODE.'s methods. I just don't want folks to have misconceptions of absolute safety spoon fed to them. By following the advice given many times over in this thread by the gankers they can minimize their chances of being wtfpwnd, this is true, but we aren't ever supposed to be completely safe. It's part of what makes EVE awesome.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2574 - 2014-08-16 14:04:14 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Um. People die in high sec all the time from things that are not ganks. I know. I've killed a handful of them, others I know have killed more. I'm just saying that it's unkind to preach a notion of complete safety when such a thing doesn't truly exist, regardless of how much good advice you follow.

Like I said earlier, I don't disapprove of the CODE.'s methods. I just don't want folks to have misconceptions of absolute safety spoon fed to them. By following the advice given many times over in this thread by the gankers they can minimize their chances of being wtfpwnd, this is true, but we aren't ever supposed to be completely safe. It's part of what makes EVE awesome.


I must agree. Safety comes from the measures you take to achieve it. Buying a permit is an excellent step in doing so, but no amount of what you do will ever come to 100% safety, unless you never undock.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2575 - 2014-08-16 14:14:40 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
but no amount of what you do will ever come to 100% safety, unless you never undock.
If you're terminally greedy or stupid not even a station can offer 100% safety.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2576 - 2014-08-16 14:16:26 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
but no amount of what you do will ever come to 100% safety, unless you never undock.
If you're terminally greedy or stupid not even a station can offer 100% safety.


Yeah, but God bless those people. I paid for my account earlier this week with someone else's money.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#2577 - 2014-08-16 22:53:20 UTC
Rabe Raptor wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Rabe Raptor wrote:
Honestly I don't understand the will for nerfs to ganking. If people simply followed the Law of Highsec they would be completely safe. Carebears baffle me.


While I do enjoy the antics of the CODE, you shouldn't push this notion of 'completely safe', as it is untrue, has never been true, and for so long as EVE is EVE will never be true. There will always be predation, and to try to push your dogma as some kind of magical shield against it is unfair to those who you're trying to convert. Yes, the code is full of ship-saving material, but until you and yours man up to the responsibility of protecting those who fall under your shield from those who don't give 1/15th of a rats hindquarters about it (yes, you may have guessed, but they do exist), the safety that comes from following it is only safety from you and yours.


Since the law outlines warping away if you see gankships on d-scan please give me a reasonable scenario that doesn't save you. An opponent throwing two SBs at a retriever or something? cmon.

uncloacking scram
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2578 - 2014-08-16 22:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
...

so you want easy kills.... sorry but eve isnt just about you....and i dont think adding one more slot and 3 rigs is going to give anywhere near the EHP of carriers, so dont be silly


You and your ilk have read THIS and tried to apply brain in gear before wailing on forums for nerfs right, RIIIIIIGHT?

(finger hovers over the Kill-It-Forward button...)

F

*pushes button for fayed*



Quote:
Kill it forward
From: Ralph King-Griffin
Sent: 2014.08.16 22:50
To: [Redacted-see link in sig]

I just wanted to check in and provide an opportunity for you to ask any questions you may have about your recent Proteus and Typhoon losses in Auvergne tonight,

Rest assured you did nothing personally to prompt the loss, but instead you merely found yourself embroiled in eve the eve political meta.

in which both myself,my Benevolent ceo and overlord Feyd Rautha Harkonnen, and our corp have dedicated ourselvs to sploding a carebear for each and every request for 'nerf's made on the EVE-O forums.

the fact that ye'r Tech 3 cruiser and (rather dashing ill add)Battleship were killed by a mear frigate may have generate some bleeding from the posterior, If this is the case please fillout this form


However...should this experience instead fire your imagination, or you wish to make this a learning experience, I stand ready to answer any questions you may have, up to and including enrolling you in our asshat training program(which is super fun) so you can aid me in my quest (pending confirmation of you not being a total bellend).

Yours
Ralph King-Griffin

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Paranoid Loyd
#2579 - 2014-08-16 23:08:39 UTC
Nicely done sir, you no longer qualify as inept. Twisted

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2580 - 2014-08-16 23:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Nicely done sir, you no longer qualify as inept. Twisted


Cloaked Proteus... in an NPC corp... in highsec. What the actual ****.

On behalf of everyone, thank you for killing that guy.

[edit: AAAAAHHHHH! Mixed guns on the Typhoon! *cries into napkin*

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.