These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Size Matters: Introducing Burner Missions

First post First post First post
Author
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#181 - 2014-08-14 23:36:48 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
New content.
New PVE content.
New PVE content that high sec players can get involved in on a solo basis and enjoy.

I am shocked.
Very pleasantly shocked.

Maybe there is hope yet.

I just hope the rewards are in line with the ISK / hour of regular L4 missions.


For the future.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#182 - 2014-08-15 00:09:36 UTC
David Kir wrote:
I would suggest making so that these NPCs have to be pointed.

They should be able to try to warp out when in difficulty (structure damage?).

Once the NPC warps off:

a) the mission is failed

b) the site collapses and re-spawns.

You could also implement Warp-Off routines into the AI, like switching to full neuting power and pulling range with webs and scrams in order to warp off.

The true difference between PVE and PVP is that human opponents have a survival instinct, while NPCs don't: make NPCs fear for their lives, for once.


^^^^THIS.^^^^

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#183 - 2014-08-15 00:26:54 UTC
Here is a run down on the Burner Ships and which ships should be fielded against them.

*This is just an assumptive list and will not represent each Capsuleer's choice of ship.

Serpentis Burner

- Cruor, Daredevil
- Any T2 Frigate


Angel Burner

- Cruor, Daredevil
- Any T2 Frigate
- Crucifier, Condor, Griffin, Maulus, Tristan, Atron, Slasher

Guristas Burner

- Worm
-Maulus, Griffin, Crucifier, Enyo, Iskhur,
-Jaguar, Harpy, Retribution

Sansha Burner

-Daredevil, Cruor
-Hawk, Vengeance
Inquisitor, Heron, Punisher, Incursus, Bantam, Navitas, Tormentor, Griffin, Burst

Blood Raider

- Succubus, Garmur, Cruor
- Any T2 Frigate
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#184 - 2014-08-15 00:30:58 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
Here is a run down on the Burner Ships and which ships should be fielded against them.

*This is just an assumptive list and will not represent each Capsuleer's choice of ship.

Serpentis Burner

- Cruor, Daredevil
- Any T2 Frigate


Angel Burner

- Cruor, Daredevil
- Any T2 Frigate
- Crucifier, Condor, Griffin, Maulus, Tristan, Atron, Slasher

Guristas Burner

- Worm
-Maulus, Griffin, Crucifier, Enyo, Iskhur,
-Jaguar, Harpy, Retribution

Sansha Burner

-Daredevil, Cruor
-Hawk, Vengeance
Inquisitor, Heron, Punisher, Incursus, Bantam, Navitas, Tormentor, Griffin, Burst

Blood Raider

- Succubus, Garmur, Cruor
- Any T2 Frigate



Or, you know, a worm for all of the above. Blood burner might give it a problem, but fit a cap booster and youre fine.
David Kir
Dominionist Commonwealth of Confederated States
#185 - 2014-08-15 00:33:28 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

Or, you know, a worm for all of the above. Blood burner might give it a problem, but fit a cap booster and youre fine.


Some of us like fun, you know?

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.

Circumstantial Evidence
#186 - 2014-08-15 00:49:02 UTC
David Kir wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Or, you know, a worm for all of the above. Blood burner might give it a problem, but fit a cap booster and youre fine.
Some of us like fun, you know?
Too true! Players have already beaten new, unreleased content. "When are we gonna get some new, new missions? *bored*" - lol
Sir Livingston
Doomheim
#187 - 2014-08-15 01:00:10 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Just to explain a little on how these will be testable. The current solution we are working towards is temporarily disabling all other level 4 missions on Sisi, so that these are the only ones available. For those of you who aren't standings-positive enough to get level 4 missions (and for everyone else!) we will be reworking the moveme bot to provide faction standings. This might even stick around if there's enough interest in it, but the missions will be restored following the Hyperion release.

Great! Big smile

Sci-fi games as played by an earthbound human in the 21st century http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew

asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#188 - 2014-08-15 01:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: asteroidjas
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Neuting these NPCs won't have any effect, unfortunately.

Although these NPCs will be using some improved tactics compared to other NPCs they still rely on the same back-end. However simultaneous work is being performed on improving our NPC and content creation tools, and these missions will serve as excellent testing grounds for future NPC advancements.

So just confirming you are pretty much saying that we will likely see frigates with 7 guns AND nuets that will be able to permanently run both neuts and personal rep 100% of the time. Yay incursion rats that we have to take down with frigates!!!! Will the also follow the same range limitations? Or are their rockets going to still hit me from 50k..ect (i'm looking at you 150k torp NPC raven's)

Quote:
"This pirate will be flying a shield boosted Dramiel frigate, with an extremely small signature radius. He tends to deal most of his damage with Domination Fusion ammo, supplemented with Mjolnir rockets. Survivors of his previous attacks claim that he likes to orbit his opponents at very close range at high speed to make himself hard to hit. He always flies with a Stasis Webifier and Warp Scrambler fit."


Sooo, its a Dramiel that will have both guns AND missiles. (with its 3 high slots)
And it will be shield tanked, WITH both "a" web and scram. which will likely have a prop mod. (with its 4 mids)

Plus who knows what the ungodly agility (among other stats) these ships will be given to allow them to fill the 'roles'

How can you boast that these ships
Quote:
with stats based on those of a player flying a pirate frigate with officer/deadspace gear, pirate implants, and command links
yet still have the same old broken AI that puts twice as many guns as can fit on the hull, (and who knows how far off the 'mid' and 'low' count truly is)

Instead of putting something that could potentially be awesome and squishing it into a very broken system...here's a novel idea...

FIX THE HORRIDLY BROKEN SYSTEM FIRST....then you won't have to go back and re-do everything a second time to reballance everything once the NPC system is finally fixed.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#189 - 2014-08-15 01:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
you realise of course that the amount of turrets on an NPC ship has absolutely no effect on its damage right?

nor do they have slots or fittings and i dnt even think they use the same missiles as capsuleers.

they are just blips with stats that shoot projectiles with stats.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#190 - 2014-08-15 01:38:35 UTC  |  Edited by: asteroidjas
Daichi Yamato wrote:
you realise of course that the amount of turrets on an NPC ship has absolutely no effect on its damage right?

if thats the case, then why are their that many on them to begin with? In most cases more than the hull is designed to hold (NPC breacher hull with missile launchers literally STACKED ON TOP OF turrets because it lacked the hardpoints to fit them all) (raven hulls with 7 turrets 2 launchers and atleast 1 defender, plus torps that fly 150k)

If the NPC turret count does not effect their dmg, then why the need to break the system like that to make it so?

*edit*
Sry, i'm not sure why i'm even bothering, CCP has their mind set to do what they want, feedback or not. Last time i spent any respectable amount of time giving feedback CCP had the gall to say they didn't believe us, then went dark for 2 months. Never again.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#191 - 2014-08-15 01:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
all BS's dessies and BC's have 8 hardpoints, but capsuleers can only fit so many of them.

all cruisers have 6 (i think), and frigs have 4?

thats just the models and for some reason NPC ships always fit max hard points regardless. the only exception being when it comes to missile hard points. all rats always have a max of one missile hard point. (saves on lag)

(oh and other exceptions may apply to ship models that are not used by rats e.g. the myrmidon)

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#192 - 2014-08-15 01:48:33 UTC
OK a few more thoughts now that I can spend some time writing them up.

Firstly, the audience for these missions and for existing L4 missions won't overlap very much.

L4 mission dabblers usually focus on battleship skills, L4 grinders on Marauders or HACs.

Those skills do not translate much to flying frigates. And those with good frigate skills don't often crosstrain into battleships.

I'm actually in the minority that has decent (A-) Marauder skills, very solid (A to A+) HAC skills and decent (A-) Assault Frigate skills, mainly because when I was newer, I wanted tech 2 battleship guns, and tech 2 Cruiser and Frigate guns were prerequisites for that back then - this is no longer true.

This means that standard level 4 missions should not be a prerequisite for these Burner Missions. At all. (Likewise I see no reason for burner missions to be prerequisites for L4 missions either, but the proposal doesn't have that in it).


Secondly, these pose an opportunity to have something additional in lowsec that's worth fighting over.

Mordrus belt spawns led to more activity in lowsec belts and more fights. These missions could do so even better - bringing together players in ISK generating activities in specific locations that are carried out in PVP fitted ships.



My suggestions:

- Keep these as rare offerings from existing L4 agents. No penalty for declining them. This is to give carebears an opportunity to try something different - something they may just like.

- Add them to the L5 rotation as well, for something different to do.

- Add specialist 'burner agents' to a small number of locations in lowsec, with some in the quietest areas of low (non-FW Placid, Solitude). These would offer burner missions all day, every day and would not offer anything else, but would follow normal rules for declining missions. Put some of these agents in places where the burner objective could be in either lowsec or nullsec, and (different) agents where the objective could be in either highsec or lowsec, and maybe have some that are always in low.

- Add about 10 more restricted burner agents to highsec. These would be new L4 agents that would offer only one burner mission per 18 hours. Accept or decline as you see fit, you don't get another chance to use that agent until the time expires.

- These missions should take place over a wider geographical area than most missions do. Travelling 6j for one of these isn't onerous as you will be in a frigate. Again, this gets players into areas that are unfamiliar and new, and often will send highsec players into lowsec in a ship they can afford to lose.

- Work on level 3 versions of these for the future as well. Something a bit easier and less rewarding for lowskilled players that want practice against competent but not brilliant opposition. These burners would fly assault frigates or destroyers with tech 2 fits, mostly '4' skills, and no offgrid boosters.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#193 - 2014-08-15 02:06:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:


- These missions should take place over a wider geographical area than most missions do. Travelling 6j for one of these isn't onerous as you will be in a frigate. Again, this gets players into areas that are unfamiliar and new, and often will send highsec players into lowsec in a ship they can afford to lose.



this isnt something you run in cheap frigs, and if they end up in low sec they will just be declined.

many level 4 mission runners have high frig, HAC and BS skills and will want to run these.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Nolak Ataru
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#194 - 2014-08-15 02:10:18 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:


- These missions should take place over a wider geographical area than most missions do. Travelling 6j for one of these isn't onerous as you will be in a frigate. Again, this gets players into areas that are unfamiliar and new, and often will send highsec players into lowsec in a ship they can afford to lose.



this isnt something you run in cheap frigs, and if they end up in low sec they will just be declined.

many level 4 mission runners have high frig, HAC and BS skills and will want to run these.


Even Assault Frigates are much easier to move 6j than any battleship, so the distance can safely be increased slightly over regular L4 missions.

And yeah, unless you give the player a way to enter lowsec that will deposit them in a semi-random location in the adjacent lowsec, people won't go.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#195 - 2014-08-15 02:13:09 UTC
it was more at the 'and often will send highsec players into lowsec in a ship they can afford to lose.'

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#196 - 2014-08-15 02:18:14 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
With the Hyperion release to be published in August 26th we will see a new kind of Level 4 Missions. In these new missions you can only use frigate sized ships and have to fight a single strong NPC that has some nasty tricks up his sleeves.

Those new type of missions, the so called "Burner" missions, will be the ideal playground for people who want to tinker around and find the optimal ship setup and strategy to be used in a good challenge.

Read more about which NPCs you can expect, why and how they pose a challenge and what you can gain from these missions in CCP Fozzie's latest dev blog Introducing Burner Missions.



You know these are gonna get farmed to death by people with uber high faction standings and thus can reject mission after mission(like ME) and who dual/triple box (like me) or isboxer.

Just so yall know Twisted
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#197 - 2014-08-15 02:22:49 UTC
An excellent first step in updating the mission system, and I hope to see a lot more like it Big smile

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.

Destroyer Chappy
Doomheim
#198 - 2014-08-15 02:30:31 UTC
Super idea.

My only thought is that some lesser version of this ought to be available at Level 3 to encourage players in their first month to stay in EVE and to relieve boredom when working up standing with a new NPC corp.

By lesser I mean...

A little less uber rat: Maybe = initial competent player instead of full expert skill set and not completely uber gear.

Rewardwise: Lesser chance of lesser loot due to fact level 3 is easier to farm/blitz and its less of a challenge. Probably even less chance of getting mission to prevent too much farming.


Also if this proves popular and not odious to code...consider destroyer burner missions.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#199 - 2014-08-15 02:32:08 UTC
Kraizer793 wrote:
As awesome as the idea is, I really don't think they'll be used.

The people who will be attracted to this type of mission are, in my experience, the type who won't want to bother grinding out traditional L4's in all their mind-numbing tedium.

The people who like L4's or run them for ISK's sake will likely just skip them. due to the risk and skill involved, just skipping it and going back to blitzing Dread Pirate Scarlet for the seventh time that day is much easier.

They need to be their own brand of mission, able to be done without having to deal with the existing missions which are an exercise in pressing F1 more than they are anything else. I think a lot of people will try them out initially, but after the new feature smell wears off, they'll fall to the wayside.

Perhaps reserve the Burners as "boss fights" for a new strain of mission, and traditional missions of this strain and pockets leading up to the Burner itself would contain less powerful variants of the Burners. 2-4 per pocket, still powerful, and still capable of causing a player to evaluate each mission and situation from a tactical perspective, and not from a "What damage type?" perspective.

+1. Step in the right direction.


This is generally incorrect, mission blitzers will love these things. It simple means buying a frig to supplement the Shuttle and Blitzing BS (like a machariel).

I should also prove a boon for loot ninjas. Scanning alts across new eden will be hunting frigs in mission hubs now since there is a chance of faciton loot.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#200 - 2014-08-15 02:33:47 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
With the Hyperion release to be published in August 26th we will see a new kind of Level 4 Missions. In these new missions you can only use frigate sized ships and have to fight a single strong NPC that has some nasty tricks up his sleeves.

Those new type of missions, the so called "Burner" missions, will be the ideal playground for people who want to tinker around and find the optimal ship setup and strategy to be used in a good challenge.

Read more about which NPCs you can expect, why and how they pose a challenge and what you can gain from these missions in CCP Fozzie's latest dev blog Introducing Burner Missions.



You know these are gonna get farmed to death by people with uber high faction standings and thus can reject mission after mission(like ME) and who dual/triple box (like me) or isboxer.

Just so yall know Twisted

You want, like, a parade?