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Dev blog: Size Matters: Introducing Burner Missions

First post First post First post
Author
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2014-08-14 20:37:39 UTC
Yup, as expected, pvp style mission farms for wholers, lowsequers and of course those beloved nullbears. Not something your normal carebear would be interested in running. This idea ranks right up there with the whole lot of distribution missions some dumb@$$ decide to unleash on us a few years back to great fanfare and look how well that idea turned out.

Just out of curiosity, what are the rewards? One million isk and another million isk bonus to risk a 4 billion isk frigate? Are you guys really that interested in creating isk sinks for plex? What will the bad guys be dropping, officer/deadspace loot or tech 1 garbage? Don't forget that in their wisdom the geniuses that come up with this stuff decided to take away pirate faction loot from missions because the nullbear BWAAAAmbulance made the rounds whining to anyone that would listen that carebears made too much isk. Roll

If this is the new direction pve is taking then, %$#@) that.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#142 - 2014-08-14 20:41:01 UTC
I think dynamic here just means random, but yes.
voetius
Grundrisse
#143 - 2014-08-14 20:47:04 UTC
Dalilus wrote:
Yup, as expected, pvp style mission farms for wholers, lowsequers and of course those beloved nullbears. Not something your normal carebear would be interested in running. This idea ranks right up there with the whole lot of distribution missions some dumb@$$ decide to unleash on us a few years back to great fanfare and look how well that idea turned out.

Just out of curiosity, what are the rewards? One million isk and another million isk bonus to risk a 4 billion isk frigate? Are you guys really that interested in creating isk sinks for plex? What will the bad guys be dropping, officer/deadspace loot or tech 1 garbage? Don't forget that in their wisdom the geniuses that come up with this stuff decided to take away pirate faction loot from missions because the nullbear BWAAAAmbulance made the rounds whining to anyone that would listen that carebears made too much isk. Roll

If this is the new direction pve is taking then, %$#@) that.


If you are having trouble running missions in your 4 billion isk frigate just drop me a note to say where you are doing them as I'm sure I can pop along and help out.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#144 - 2014-08-14 20:48:38 UTC
Do you need to point them? I hope so. Love the concept anyway.

What about having specialist agents in lowsec that only give these missions?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#145 - 2014-08-14 21:02:35 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Wait wait wait, so you want us, the capsuleers who are inexplicably bound by CONCORD's law and get an ass kicking the moment we over step, to fight and kill a bunch of terrorists who have managed to elude CONCORD and are using better equipment then even we have access to?

In any realistic scenario anyone would take two seconds to think that over and say HELL NO. But in this case, I think it's just another piece of bad story writing. All is good. (Really, put some more effort into decent background stories for game mechanics).

As far as the gameplay itself goes, I'm sure we all like the addition of new missions, but this is once again more static content that is able to be mapped and countered to perfection each and every time. Hell, the dev blog already gives a neat little list of exactly what each mission's dangers are. It will take 1 week tops before someone has all the details of each Burner written down and mapped out.

The reason missions in general are boring is not because there aren't enough different ones, but because it's the same stuff each and ever single time. The rats are always the same. The method of attack is always the same. The incoming damage is always the same. All you have to do to beat a mission is do the exact same thing you did last time.

If you want to improve missions and PVE content in general, start working on dynamic missions that change ever so slightly each time they are ran. Dynamic rats, dynamic triggers, dynamic damage and dynamic stats. That way at least there's still some challenge instead of being able to find every single piece of information on a website.

Of course a system like that takes time to program and stuff, I get that. But this basically goes for everything in EVE; make it less static.



Wont ever happen. All the dynamic options will be maped also and people will just go in fit and expecting the hardest variation. Thus turning the dynamic content into static content.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#146 - 2014-08-14 21:03:41 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:

also, sig tanking is actually speed tanking. or speed tanking is sig tanking. you cannot separate these things.

They're different when you shoot missiles at them.


Ziggy star dust knows all about "speed" tanking

Rocket man:

She packed my bags last night pre-flight
Zero hour nine a.m.
And I'm gonna be high as a kite by then
I miss the earth so much I miss my wife
It's lonely out in space
On such a timeless flight

And I think it's gonna be a long long time
Till touch down brings me round again to find
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Oh no no no I'm a rocket man
Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone

Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids
In fact it's cold as hell
And there's no one there to raise them if you did
And all this science I don't understand
It's just my job five days a week
A rocket man, a rocket man

And I think it's gonna be a long long time...


There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#147 - 2014-08-14 21:05:02 UTC
Dalilus wrote:
Yup, as expected, pvp style mission farms for wholers, lowsequers and of course those beloved nullbears. Not something your normal carebear would be interested in running. This idea ranks right up there with the whole lot of distribution missions some dumb@$$ decide to unleash on us a few years back to great fanfare and look how well that idea turned out.

Just out of curiosity, what are the rewards? One million isk and another million isk bonus to risk a 4 billion isk frigate? Are you guys really that interested in creating isk sinks for plex? What will the bad guys be dropping, officer/deadspace loot or tech 1 garbage? Don't forget that in their wisdom the geniuses that come up with this stuff decided to take away pirate faction loot from missions because the nullbear BWAAAAmbulance made the rounds whining to anyone that would listen that carebears made too much isk. Roll

If this is the new direction pve is taking then, %$#@) that.



you need to learn to read. rewards are stated in the dev bog.
Xer Jin
XER'S LONE SOLOS CLUB
#148 - 2014-08-14 21:11:42 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Just to explain a little on how these will be testable. The current solution we are working towards is temporarily disabling all other level 4 missions on Sisi, so that these are the only ones available. For those of you who aren't standings-positive enough to get level 4 missions (and for everyone else!) we will be reworking the moveme bot to provide faction standings. This might even stick around if there's enough interest in it, but the missions will be restored following the Hyperion release.


how about just making an agent that hands out burner missions in one system a temporary agent of sorts on sisi that gives the different races missions one after the other that way you can collect stats easily from one system / node and people can chat about them in local i fell this would be easier to implement and convenient for us capsulers.
adriaans
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
#149 - 2014-08-14 21:15:02 UTC
I wish these were not bound to lvl 4 agents or were options you could choose instead (using tag drops from normal lvl 4's perhaps? Which would make it bound to the economy) from said lvl 4 agents, say perhaps even exclusive to low-sec, they ARE avoiding concord after-all!

----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#150 - 2014-08-14 21:17:25 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
sure there's a reason; the reason is so you don't waste content putting it where players won't access it.

of the few people i've spoken to since i got home from work who were interested in these missions, they've pretty much all lost interest when i told them you have to mindlessly grind l4s until the rng gods let you have a go at one of these new ones.


If nobody flies them, then sure, they can do something to make them more attractive. But if I were them, on a six-week release beat, I'd roll them out with the least possible amount of effort and watch, then adjust as necessary. Maybe you don't want to run those particular L4s; maybe I'd rather spin my Ishtar than run L4s at all. It's a fair bet that somebody out there who's willing to give them a shot. There's been demand for this kind of variety in L4 missions, and this is a pretty good way to figure out how much demand there is among the existing mission-running player base.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

HYPAKILLA
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#151 - 2014-08-14 21:20:17 UTC
The more PvE is like PvP the better.

I'm in.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#152 - 2014-08-14 21:20:36 UTC
Crazy NPCs like these could be added as bonus "Boss" pockets in regular missions.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!

Xer Jin
XER'S LONE SOLOS CLUB
#153 - 2014-08-14 21:25:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Xer Jin
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:

also, sig tanking is actually speed tanking. or speed tanking is sig tanking. you cannot separate these things.

They're different when you shoot missiles at them.


Ziggy star dust knows all about "speed" tanking

Rocket man:

She packed my bags last night pre-flight
Zero hour nine a.m.
And I'm gonna be high as a kite by then
I miss the earth so much I miss my wife
It's lonely out in space
On such a timeless flight

And I think it's gonna be a long long time
Till touch down brings me round again to find
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Oh no no no I'm a rocket man
Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone

Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids
In fact it's cold as hell
And there's no one there to raise them if you did
And all this science I don't understand
It's just my job five days a week
A rocket man, a rocket man

And I think it's gonna be a long long time...



wow as a capsuleer you have made complete and utter fail!!!
firstly "rocket man" was written and composed by elton john
second "Ziggy stardust" is not a real person but a persona created by David Bowie who wrote "Major Tom" actualy titled "Space Oddity"
i think you have them all confused clearly
you need to go back and train up "capsuleer culture" a few more levels
lololol
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#154 - 2014-08-14 21:28:24 UTC
So are these things going to be player fitable fits, or are they going to be Sansha 2.0 that can do everything all at the same time, with virtually unlimited slot layout?

That makes a big difference, if your intent is for players to solo a Sansha frigate (in essence) with only a frigate...i feel your new content will go widely unused. However, if they are infact ACTUAL usable fits, this could be really fun.
David Kir
Dominionist Commonwealth of Confederated States
#155 - 2014-08-14 21:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: David Kir
I would suggest making so that these NPCs have to be pointed.

They should be able to try to warp out when in difficulty (structure damage?).

Once the NPC warps off:

a) the mission is failed

b) the site collapses and re-spawns.

You could also implement Warp-Off routines into the AI, like switching to full neuting power and pulling range with webs and scrams in order to warp off.

The true difference between PVE and PVP is that human opponents have a survival instinct, while NPCs don't: make NPCs fear for their lives, for once.


Oh, I almost forgot:

The missioner's dream is to be supreme
The bigger, the better
The biggest ever
SIZE MATTERS!

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.

Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#156 - 2014-08-14 21:39:45 UTC
This part is a little weird, why should these missions be any different from any other mission.
Quote:
Burner Missions are 100% optional. There will be no standings penalty for turning down or failing these missions. Your friendly neighborhood security agent knows that not every capsuleer will have the equipment or skills to take on these missions and won’t be offended if you decline.

If you are running Level 4s you should already have a few ships laying about that you no longer use anymore, or at least be able to pick something up with the amount of ISK that you have from your other level 4s. If you can't do it then you cancel the mission like any other mission that you don't want to do. Just like allot of people currently do with ones that you have to shoot other Empire Faction ships in.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#157 - 2014-08-14 21:45:50 UTC
Kraizer793 wrote:
As awesome as the idea is, I really don't think they'll be used.

The people who will be attracted to this type of mission are, in my experience, the type who won't want to bother grinding out traditional L4's in all their mind-numbing tedium.

The people who like L4's or run them for ISK's sake will likely just skip them. due to the risk and skill involved, just skipping it and going back to blitzing Dread Pirate Scarlet for the seventh time that day is much easier.

They need to be their own brand of mission, able to be done without having to deal with the existing missions which are an exercise in pressing F1 more than they are anything else. I think a lot of people will try them out initially, but after the new feature smell wears off, they'll fall to the wayside.

Perhaps reserve the Burners as "boss fights" for a new strain of mission, and traditional missions of this strain and pockets leading up to the Burner itself would contain less powerful variants of the Burners. 2-4 per pocket, still powerful, and still capable of causing a player to evaluate each mission and situation from a tactical perspective, and not from a "What damage type?" perspective.

+1. Step in the right direction.


Nalha Saldana wrote:
Gain them randomly from doing L4s? No this is a terrible idea, a lot of L4 runners dont want them and most who want burner missions dont want L4s at all.

Best solution is definitely to drop keys or similar in L4s that can be sold on market and turned in to a agent to gain a burner mission. This gives those who does L4s the option between isk or burner while those who want to farm them the ability to do it unlimited while still having it regulated by market cost.


Dave Stark wrote:
and you've just made them, useless, and ****** content.

if i'm doing level 4 missions, it ain't in a goddamn frigate. it's in a ship that can't do them, it'll get instantly declined and disregarded.

either make them an alternative, or don't bother. just adding in missions i can't complete in my normal mission boat, to my normal mission agent is just another mission that i instantly disregard just like anything in low sec, more than 3 jumps away, or incurs faction standing losses.

on the bright side, at least you know it's a dumb idea and aren't imposing standing losses for your terrible implementation of what could have been an amazing addition to eve.


Dalilus wrote:
Yup, as expected, pvp style mission farms for wholers, lowsequers and of course those beloved nullbears. Not something your normal carebear would be interested in running. This idea ranks right up there with the whole lot of distribution missions some dumb@$$ decide to unleash on us a few years back to great fanfare and look how well that idea turned out.

Just out of curiosity, what are the rewards? One million isk and another million isk bonus to risk a 4 billion isk frigate? Are you guys really that interested in creating isk sinks for plex? What will the bad guys be dropping, officer/deadspace loot or tech 1 garbage? Don't forget that in their wisdom the geniuses that come up with this stuff decided to take away pirate faction loot from missions because the nullbear BWAAAAmbulance made the rounds whining to anyone that would listen that carebears made too much isk. Roll

If this is the new direction pve is taking then, %$#@) that.

I agree 100% with all of these.

As a long time explorer and mission runner (+6 years) in this game, I have to say this type of so called PvE content is nothing more than mock PvP, something which doesn't interest me at all. CCP constantly trying to force PvE players into doing PvP is killing this game. If players want to do PvP action, there's nothing stopping them so why the constant attempts to force those who only want to do PvE content into doing PvP?

What I've seen happening over the past few years is a small but very vocal group of PvP players constantly dictating / meta-gaming CCP via CSM / Null Sec Alliances on how this game should be played. Since CCP is bound and determined to listen to them by slowly removing the PvE aspect of this game, I say just fracking do it already and stop wasting our time with this slowboat action of turning Eve into Vaporware.

Seriously, CCP Devs need to pull their heads out of their Facebooks and stop twittering with themselves.


DMC
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#158 - 2014-08-14 21:46:58 UTC
Finally a use for these Kestrels...

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

David Kir
Dominionist Commonwealth of Confederated States
#159 - 2014-08-14 21:49:12 UTC
Caldari 5 wrote:

If you are running Level 4s you should already have a few ships laying about that you no longer use anymore, or at least be able to pick something up with the amount of ISK that you have from your other level 4s. If you can't do it then you cancel the mission like any other mission that you don't want to do. Just like allot of people currently do with ones that you have to shoot other Empire Faction ships in.



Because not all mission runners have good frigate combat skills, knowledge and ability.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that most of them do not.

Besides, this would unfairly penalize low-SP players.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.

David Kir
Dominionist Commonwealth of Confederated States
#160 - 2014-08-14 21:54:09 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

CCP constantly trying to force PvE players into doing PvP


"Burner Missions are 100% optional. "

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.