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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#2481 - 2014-08-12 19:56:17 UTC
Phoebe Buffet wrote:
The afk autopiloting issue is all on CCP as far as I’m concerned.
The mechanism is broken.
It’s a question of your precious gaming time and how you are willing to use it.
Lets say for whatever reason you have an unfitted battleship or an Orca in Molden Heath… something that aligns slowly.
You live in Arida because you changed corps or whatever and you have a lot of stuff to move.
So you fly your pod/shuttle to Molden Heath and then get in the ship to move it to Aridia.
So to move this ship non autopiloted from point A to B will take up to two hours maybe?
Two hours of gaming time wasted on a mundane task.
That makes no sense at all.
Instead, you could autopilot and go mow your lawn/clean out the garage/take a shower and go to the liquor store.
This isn’t just a carebear issue.
Everyone needs to move their stuff.
Yes, the galaxy is a huge place but gaming time is very precious and we have little choices on how to move things especially when you have to make multiple trips.
CCP needs to make long distance transportation more sensible.


There's this thing, what is it - oh yeah, it's called a courier contract! I hear tales of how there's even large well organized groups, one of them has something to do with a frog of a specific color or something - who will gladly move everything you need moved for a quite reasonable fee.

So you have a few options here to preserve your very precious gaming time:

1) Plan ahead. If you know you are going to need to move something long distance, set up the contract at the END of a play session, and when you come back to play again your stuff will magically already be moved!

2) Go AFK in space in a valuable ship as you can't handle the simple fact that moving ships is not very exciting - then cry on the forms that while you were mowing your lawn something happened in the online game you were logged into.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2482 - 2014-08-12 20:15:30 UTC
Airto TLA wrote:
Griefers vary in definition, but if you use the definition "To do something that makes no sense in the game, except it causes the other player pain", then yes EVE is full of griefers.
The only definition that counts is CCP's

Quote:
An industrial player can understand and deal with cost benefit, and work around that, but it becomes hard to deal with the "watch the world burn people". This is why in most polite societies these people get a terrorist badge and up in jail forever. Not, just because they killed someone, they disrupted society (and business).
Sometimes they rise to the top, conquer vast swathes of territory and become historically significant figures. Genghis Khan, the odd little man with the dodgy 'tache and Joseph Stalin are examples of this.

Quote:
I do not own a freighter since I can withstand the loss of some idiot ganking it, "just because"., it would help run my little industry operation, but profits are just not high enough for loss of one freighter to kill profits for a few weeks.
So outsource to people like Red Frog or PushX like the rest of us do, if they get ganked you still get paid due to the collateral you set.

Quote:
Like the OP, I do not mind ganking, it is the perm -10.0 using holes in the system to continuously do it, that does not seem right (sort of like the yo yo Concord trick, where realism has to be ignored to keep completely valid tactic under most circumstances from being exploited.)
People who are -10 aren't using holes in the systems, they are using the exact same game mechanics that everybody else has access to.

Quote:
My suggestions, has always been if you reach -9 or lower NPC police will try and kill your pod and only low sec stations will accept your medical clones. Seems like a realistic disadvantage to being a known arsonist.
No.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2483 - 2014-08-13 01:10:09 UTC
Airto TLA wrote:

My suggestions, has always been if you reach -9 or lower NPC police will try and kill your pod and only low sec stations will accept your medical clones. Seems like a realistic disadvantage to being a known arsonist.


While we're making self serving suggestions, I have one.

If you are killed by someone whose sec status is -5.0 or lower, you don't get any insurance payout.

Because reasons.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lady Areola Fappington
#2484 - 2014-08-13 02:04:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Areola Fappington
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
While we're making self serving suggestions, I have one.

If you are killed by someone whose sec status is -5.0 or lower, you don't get any insurance payout.

Because reasons.



Hey, if we're going there, I want to see Sleeper level AI "bounty hunters" sicced on missioners after X number of missions. Surely, within the genocide of mortals that missioners execute, there'll be ONE family with the means to hire hunters to kill their son's murderer.

That one, and make it so that mining causes your faction standings to decrease. I mean, a capsuleer miner is basically stealing resources that the Empire factions could be using more effectively to support a broader cross-section of the population.

Finally, visas, import taxes, and customs paperwork for import/export across Empire boundaries. It makes no sense, capsuleers can import military grade weapons and vehicles across Empire borders, but in the RL, I can get in trouble for not declaring the fruitbasket I bought overseas once I get back to the States. The goal IS to make EVE more realistic, right?

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2485 - 2014-08-13 02:12:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If you are killed by someone whose sec status is -5.0 or lower, you don't get any insurance payout.

Because reasons.

Act of Code
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#2486 - 2014-08-13 02:36:39 UTC
The risk:reward of HiSec is broken, and it's a good thing to see players taking this problem into their own hands and ganking everything they can find.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#2487 - 2014-08-13 03:27:21 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
The risk:reward of HiSec is broken, and it's a good thing to see players taking this problem into their own hands and ganking everything they can find.

So easy to say. And you are right, hi sec should get more rewards for their actions.

Still waiting for someone to counter that theory using logic, not "obviously I am taking more risk by living somewhere else than hi sec so I should get more rewards." It doesn't work that way in the real world, and it shouldn't work that way in EvE either.

By so many players twisted definition I should pay more for gold that comes from a war torn state in Africa. Guess what, that gold is cheaper. And the more they mine the cheaper it gets.

Null sec ratting shouldn't pay bounties. Empire should be glad that rats are in Null sec, why would they pay for their extinction there? Hi priority targets, sure. But I don't remember there being a bounty on every member of a terrorist organization. And where would rats need the best equipment? Most likely hi sec where they face more threats. Logically hi sec drops should be better.

But hey, logic doesn't fit into discussions regarding entitlement. You feel you deserve more rewards because you chose to live in a backwater then fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2488 - 2014-08-13 03:37:07 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
[quote=Xuixien]You feel you deserve more rewards because you chose to live in a backwater then fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.


Not even a good attempt at a strawman.

They feel that people who take less risk in their gameplay, deserve less reward.

Highsec is by definition less risk. That is not up for debate, it's not my opinion, it's a fact.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#2489 - 2014-08-13 03:54:28 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
While we're making self serving suggestions, I have one.

If you are killed by someone whose sec status is -5.0 or lower, you don't get any insurance payout.

Because reasons.



Hey, if we're going there, I want to see Sleeper level AI "bounty hunters" sicced on missioners after X number of missions. Surely, within the genocide of mortals that missioners execute, there'll be ONE family with the means to hire hunters to kill their son's murderer.

That one, and make it so that mining causes your faction standings to decrease. I mean, a capsuleer miner is basically stealing resources that the Empire factions could be using more effectively to support a broader cross-section of the population.

Finally, visas, import taxes, and customs paperwork for import/export across Empire boundaries. It makes no sense, capsuleers can import military grade weapons and vehicles across Empire borders, but in the RL, I can get in trouble for not declaring the fruitbasket I bought overseas once I get back to the States. The goal IS to make EVE more realistic, right?



Well actually, as long as we are indulging, it would make sense for pirate NPC factions to offer kill missions on players. Imagine you got someone turbo-farming Serpentis consistently. It would make sense that the worse your standing with them, the more they will want to see you get... discouraged. So why not let other players visit their agent out in nullsec and get a "kill this guy" mission and the target is another player?

That and NPC corps wardeccing each other and we got some game on.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2490 - 2014-08-13 11:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Well actually, as long as we are indulging, it would make sense for pirate NPC factions to offer kill missions on players. Imagine you got someone turbo-farming Serpentis consistently. It would make sense that the worse your standing with them, the more they will want to see you get... discouraged. So why not let other players visit their agent out in nullsec and get a "kill this guy" mission and the target is another player?

That and NPC corps wardeccing each other and we got some game on.
I like this.

Though as someone who routinely massacres NPCs on a large scale I'd expect to be on the receiving end of it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2491 - 2014-08-13 12:16:15 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Well actually, as long as we are indulging, it would make sense for pirate NPC factions to offer kill missions on players. Imagine you got someone turbo-farming Serpentis consistently. It would make sense that the worse your standing with them, the more they will want to see you get... discouraged. So why not let other players visit their agent out in nullsec and get a "kill this guy" mission and the target is another player?

That and NPC corps wardeccing each other and we got some game on.
I like this.

Though as someone who routinely massacres NPCs on a large scale I'd expect to be on the receiving end of it.



HELL NO!

As many NPC ships as I've killed in the last 7 years, if you implemented something like this, EVE would become self aware for the sole purpose of manufacturing robots that would stalk me in real life. I'd look out my window and see and Dread Guristas tank rolling down my street looking for me. As cool as that would be, I don't want that to be the last cool thing I ever see lol.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2492 - 2014-08-13 12:20:29 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Well actually, as long as we are indulging, it would make sense for pirate NPC factions to offer kill missions on players. Imagine you got someone turbo-farming Serpentis consistently. It would make sense that the worse your standing with them, the more they will want to see you get... discouraged. So why not let other players visit their agent out in nullsec and get a "kill this guy" mission and the target is another player?

That and NPC corps wardeccing each other and we got some game on.
I like this.

Though as someone who routinely massacres NPCs on a large scale I'd expect to be on the receiving end of it.



HELL NO!

As many NPC ships as I've killed in the last 7 years, if you implemented something like this, EVE would become self aware for the sole purpose of manufacturing robots that would stalk me in real life. I'd look out my window and see and Dread Guristas tank rolling down my street looking for me. As cool as that would be, I don't want that to be the last cool thing I ever see lol.


If Skynet ever does become a thing, it will be because of video games, I guarantee it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2493 - 2014-08-13 12:32:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Jenn aSide wrote:
HELL NO!

As many NPC ships as I've killed in the last 7 years, if you implemented something like this, EVE would become self aware for the sole purpose of manufacturing robots that would stalk me in real life. I'd look out my window and see and Dread Guristas tank rolling down my street looking for me. As cool as that would be, I don't want that to be the last cool thing I ever see lol.
lol I know what you mean, without diplomacy 4 my standings to Angels and Serpentis are around -9.6

Strangely enough Guristas actually like me with diplomacy 4, but that's only because I don't shoot them, filthy jamming scumbags.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If Skynet ever does become a thing, it will be because of video games, I guarantee it.
It's already a thing, if the system didn't predate the Terminator movies by 15 years I'd suspect someone at the Ministry of Defence of having a sense of humour

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2494 - 2014-08-13 12:34:16 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
The risk:reward of HiSec is broken, and it's a good thing to see players taking this problem into their own hands and ganking everything they can find.

So easy to say. And you are right, hi sec should get more rewards for their actions.

Still waiting for someone to counter that theory using logic, not "obviously I am taking more risk by living somewhere else than hi sec so I should get more rewards." It doesn't work that way in the real world, and it shouldn't work that way in EvE either.

By so many players twisted definition I should pay more for gold that comes from a war torn state in Africa. Guess what, that gold is cheaper. And the more they mine the cheaper it gets.

Null sec ratting shouldn't pay bounties. Empire should be glad that rats are in Null sec, why would they pay for their extinction there? Hi priority targets, sure. But I don't remember there being a bounty on every member of a terrorist organization. And where would rats need the best equipment? Most likely hi sec where they face more threats. Logically hi sec drops should be better.

But hey, logic doesn't fit into discussions regarding entitlement. You feel you deserve more rewards because you chose to live in a backwater then fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Your attempt at comparing Eve's economy to one rife with state endorsed exploitation falls on it's face from the start. There is a way to make "gold from war torn Africa" out of nullsec exports. All we would need is a population of null dwellers that have no ability to move goods anywhere else, and alliance and coalition level CEOs who skim 90+% of the profits of the labors, when exporting them to market hubs. Eve doesn't have mechanics in place that would create a permanent slave labor force, since any pilot could pick up and move elsewhere, whenever they so desired.

Second, countries with higher levels of security have notoriously high costs of living, compared to those that do not. Seriously, compare price parity between say, Denmark and Chad (since you wanted to bring up Africa). What you can survive off of for a year in Chad, wouldn't feed you for a day in Copenhagen. Again, Eve does not function that way.

And no, logically highsec drops shouldn't be higher. You know why? Imperial powers. Anything worth picking from those criminals would already be taken by the various empires for their own uses. I don't hear of too many RPGs, or SAWs making it from the hands of criminals into the public domain, in civilized society.

So yeah, seriously, stop with the attempts at making real world comparisons.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2495 - 2014-08-13 12:40:49 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:


Second, countries with higher levels of security have notoriously high costs of living, compared to those that do not. Seriously, compare price parity between say, Denmark and Chad (since you wanted to bring up Africa). What you can survive off of for a year in Chad, wouldn't feed you for a day in Copenhagen. Again, Eve does not function that way.


I so wish it was this way sometimes. As it is, CONCORD protection is 'free', if EVE were like real life, magical space police that drop out of the sky when someone merely looks at you funny would come with an effective 60% tax on all income lol. Spaceships full of cops and jump engine fuel ain't cheap.

These "in real life blurg blurg Africa blurg nullsec blurg" people can always think how a 'realistic' situation would benefit them, but oddly can't realize how much it would screw them as well.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2496 - 2014-08-13 12:42:10 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
The risk:reward of HiSec is broken, and it's a good thing to see players taking this problem into their own hands and ganking everything they can find.

So easy to say. And you are right, hi sec should get more rewards for their actions.

Still waiting for someone to counter that theory using logic, not "obviously I am taking more risk by living somewhere else than hi sec so I should get more rewards." It doesn't work that way in the real world, and it shouldn't work that way in EvE either.

By so many players twisted definition I should pay more for gold that comes from a war torn state in Africa. Guess what, that gold is cheaper. And the more they mine the cheaper it gets.

Null sec ratting shouldn't pay bounties. Empire should be glad that rats are in Null sec, why would they pay for their extinction there? Hi priority targets, sure. But I don't remember there being a bounty on every member of a terrorist organization. And where would rats need the best equipment? Most likely hi sec where they face more threats. Logically hi sec drops should be better.

But hey, logic doesn't fit into discussions regarding entitlement. You feel you deserve more rewards because you chose to live in a backwater then fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.


Oh look, the most coddled players in a video game living in the safest, most comfortable space think they have it bad. High Sec should be renamed "1st World Space".
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2497 - 2014-08-13 13:05:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Oh look, the most coddled players in a video game living in the safest, most comfortable space think they have it bad. High Sec should be renamed "1st World Space".
Suicide ganking, a First World Problem. Shocked

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Syssa Binchiette
#2498 - 2014-08-13 13:15:09 UTC
Perma-Death all round for everyone.
That would shake up how people play..

It's only water, in a stranger's tear. Looks are deceptive, but distinctions are clear. A foreign body and foreign mind; never welcome in the land of the blind.
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#2499 - 2014-08-13 13:29:01 UTC
if wee hard perma deaf then thar wood be a lott less fraters thats fore true

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#2500 - 2014-08-13 14:01:21 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Airto TLA wrote:

Griefers vary in definition, but if you use the definition "To do something that makes no sense in the game, except it causes the other player pain", then yes EVE is full of griefers.

An industrial player can understand and deal with cost benefit, and work around that, but it becomes hard to deal with the "watch the world burn people". This is why in most polite societies these people get a terrorist badge and up in jail forever. Not, just because they killed someone, they disrupted society (and business).

I do not own a freighter since I can withstand the loss of some idiot ganking it, "just because"., it would help run my little industry operation, but profits are just not high enough for loss of one freighter to kill profits for a few weeks.

Like the OP, I do not mind ganking, it is the perm -10.0 using holes in the system to continuously do it, that does not seem right (sort of like the yo yo Concord trick, where realism has to be ignored to keep completely valid tactic under most circumstances from being exploited.)

My suggestions, has always been if you reach -9 or lower NPC police will try and kill your pod and only low sec stations will accept your medical clones. Seems like a realistic disadvantage to being a known arsonist.



That's why we use CCP's definition of "greifer" on CCP's system. Makes life much easier that way, rather than having 100,000 different definitions, with resulting confusion.

There's no "holes" in a -10 flying around highsec. You're having a misconception moment. One of CCP's hard-set design features from the very beginning was/is "No player will be totally locked out of any section of space for any reason". CCP didn't like the idea of "You must be this tall/level/age/etc to ride" style divisioning of playerbase that other MMOGs do. There's no "Level 1-10, level 11-20, etc" zoning in EVE.

It may be difficult for a -10 to live in highsec, but it's not mechanically impossible.


It should be almost impossible, but it is not if you are willing to use any of the workarounds, it is mainly a second account and you are somewhat immune to the police due to the fact that they do not pod. And the players who do this are basically playing street thugs that the police ignore,. I am just saying rework it so that people can not simply build a "professional ganker" character (and it is really a pretty low sp job, to do get an adequate destroyer based one.) and be in effect immune to the impact of criminal status.