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[Hyperion] Incursion changes on Sisi now

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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-08-11 15:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Habakuk
Hey guys,

Hope you are all having a wonderful summer. We have some small, iterative, changes for Incursions that we are hoping to release with Hyperion and would love your feedback on them.


  • Assault systems for Incursions will now never be just NCNs. At most NCNs can only take up 50% of the sites.
  • The re-spawn time between an incursion ending and it re-spawning has been lowered.
  • Scout site rewards, and spawns, have been re-balanced.


The scout site changes are what we would really love some feedback on. We have attempted to up their reward (text changes in the client still to come) and up their difficulty.

The idea is that if you run these sites with 5 people they should be profitable to run, but not as profitable as Vanguards. While we have given them a balance pass, we think they probably need a bit more of a buff. Before we do that though we would love your feedback on how they are now.

When offering feedback on the scout sites if you could let us know what kind of fleet you ran it with and how long it was taking you to complete them broken down by which site you were running.

Hope you enjoy and thanks for the feedback guys.

Update:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4931846#post4931846

Basically we are increase the number of people you can bring to a null sec Vanguard site.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
WeaponsSt
#2 - 2014-08-11 16:15:02 UTC
What are these new sites balanced for? The current meta of battleships and logi? Because if battleships can get into these sites that is what will be used.

Thanks for finally looking into these site btw.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#3 - 2014-08-11 16:15:13 UTC
never done them .. after-all why would you ??

but that being said if they became a frigate only site that would be interesting ... without needing more than 1 logi aswell ..
a little 5 on 5 frig action would be cool

Also who thought that incursions should be battleships trying too shoot frigates??? they should be shot .. also incursions are too profitable .. nerf the isk/LP rewards .. make it more casual and fun and varied

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2014-08-11 16:18:05 UTC
WeaponsSt wrote:
What are these new sites balanced for? The current meta of battleships and logi? Because if battleships can get into these sites that is what will be used.

Thanks for finally looking into these site btw.


There is no restriction on ships.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#5 - 2014-08-11 16:19:27 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
WeaponsSt wrote:
What are these new sites balanced for? The current meta of battleships and logi? Because if battleships can get into these sites that is what will be used.

Thanks for finally looking into these site btw.


There is no restriction on ships.


so nothing interesting here then ... pretty much the same as any other site then

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Otuk Andven
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-08-11 16:23:49 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
WeaponsSt wrote:
What are these new sites balanced for? The current meta of battleships and logi? Because if battleships can get into these sites that is what will be used.

Thanks for finally looking into these site btw.


There is no restriction on ships.


so nothing interesting here then ... pretty much the same as any other site then


given that Vanguard meta is focused around battle cruisers and a few solo logi I suspect they'll be designed as an slightly easier version of this and good thing too. One of the major problem with incursions is the high requirements mean that only a few big groups do it. By creating these small sites you can get corps and other group coming in and trying it out without competing with the major group.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#7 - 2014-08-11 16:25:34 UTC
If you were to restrict BSes from entering then you might get the older players to stick with their VGs and Assaults and HQs

But just making them profitable is an awesome step for me :D

The Drake is a Lie
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2014-08-11 16:34:35 UTC
I will try and hang out on Sisi with CCP FoxFour when i remember, but if you need any help testing this stuff best to give me a ping on twitter (@regnerba) or on IRC (Coldfront - [CCP]FoxFour]).

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
PopplerRo
#9 - 2014-08-11 16:38:13 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:

..The re-spawn time between an incursion ending and it re-spawning has been lowered.


What range of a respawn cycle should be expected?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2014-08-11 16:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
something to keep in mind about a 5-ship payout curve and difficulty: a two-logi comp has a single point of failure (jams), and incursions do that. going with three logi eats into DPS, and takes up 60% the 5-ship limit. you could go remote rep or high EHP, but both of those are simply not available in small T1 (and leaves T3 for EHP, or Battleships for deep wells of cap for RR).

It -can- be accomplished with logi T1 frigates or [logi T1] cruisers, but if you make the payout enticing, people will just roll them with the expensive stuff faster.

rather than increasing the payout, I think you should consider increasing the number of ships in the payout curve.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Xeent Tsool
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-08-11 17:04:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Xeent Tsool
I run lowsec incursions semi-regularly. All of these changes sound great.

EDIT: Rain6637, I've heard that scout sites are VERY easy and that the current payout is a joke. Any other change will be meaningless if the payout isn't increased.
Max Kupaptakov
AEGIS Contest Corporation
#12 - 2014-08-11 17:08:00 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:

  • The re-spawn time between an incursion ending and it re-spawning has been lowered.
    • .


    Oh, thanks you guys. Now I will have to move 70jumps a day, in order to make ISK in two different incursion sites if "Comunity drama" strikes again. Now you gonna gave us only more MOMs to pop and more jump to make.


    You are just encouraging ppl to rage popping more. Then ppl will spend more time on route then "enjoying the content".
    Better would be to extend time between grinding the influence and poping the mom.
    Rain6637
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #13 - 2014-08-11 17:15:52 UTC
    Xeent Tsool wrote:
    I run lowsec incursions semi-regularly. All of these changes sound great.

    EDIT: Rain6637, I've heard that scout sites are VERY easy and that the current payout is a joke. Any other change will be meaningless if the payout isn't increased.

    I'm aware. I just wanted to make the point that a 5 ship limit runs into the logi chain problem, at any difficulty. if they're going to alter the payout as an incentive, they should consider the number of ships and not just the per-ship figure. it strikes me as one of those matters of tradition that go unquestioned.

    Help, I can't download EVE

    President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

    PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
    Kalen Tsero
    WeebFleet
    Tsundere Triad
    #14 - 2014-08-11 17:29:38 UTC
    Rain6637 wrote:

    I'm aware. I just wanted to make the point that a 5 ship limit runs into the logi chain problem, at any difficulty. if they're going to alter the payout as an incentive, they should consider the number of ships and not just the per-ship figure. it strikes me as one of those matters of tradition that go unquestioned.


    Well what I'm getting from it is why do logi at all if it's balanced for 5 ships. Local reps at best is the only thing you may need. This to me sounds like it'll be no worse than the "The Blockade" or "When Worlds Collide" L4 missions. Which people run those solo.
    Sara Tosa
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #15 - 2014-08-11 17:36:11 UTC
    Rain6637 wrote:
    Xeent Tsool wrote:
    I run lowsec incursions semi-regularly. All of these changes sound great.

    EDIT: Rain6637, I've heard that scout sites are VERY easy and that the current payout is a joke. Any other change will be meaningless if the payout isn't increased.

    I'm aware. I just wanted to make the point that a 5 ship limit runs into the logi chain problem, at any difficulty. if they're going to alter the payout as an incentive, they should consider the number of ships and not just the per-ship figure. it strikes me as one of those matters of tradition that go unquestioned.

    first of all check if logis are really a requirement and if you can go by with just a spider group or even local repping ships.
    Tragot Gomndor
    Three Sword Inc
    #16 - 2014-08-11 18:13:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tragot Gomndor
    currently running distress beacon...
    setup: 2x remote armor nestors, 1x shield nightmare, crap fits

    too much ecm, too high hitpoints, we are doing it for like 30min already and only got to the second spawn, i hope theres not another... maybe works when counteracting the ecm somehow, we have no eccm :D

    edit: okay, we got a third spawn, so we ragequited

    for everyone else, each spawn had 8 cruisers, some frigs, first spawn had 4-6 ecm cruiser, second spawn had a fleeing cruiser, moved to 150km...

    NONONONONONO TO CAPS IN HIGHSEC NO
    BadAssMcKill
    Aliastra
    #17 - 2014-08-11 18:15:11 UTC
    "Assault systems for Incursions will now never be just NCNs. At most NCNs can only take up 50% of the sites."


    :yes:
    Mr Agathon
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #18 - 2014-08-11 18:17:49 UTC
    CCP FoxFour wrote:
    WeaponsSt wrote:
    What are these new sites balanced for? The current meta of battleships and logi? Because if battleships can get into these sites that is what will be used.

    Thanks for finally looking into these site btw.


    There is no restriction on ships.

    Why not restrict them to BC and under and have an introductory site that's profitable to run without billion isk battleships OR tens of millions of skillpoints.
    Tycho Naskingar
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #19 - 2014-08-11 18:30:41 UTC
    Tragot Gomndor wrote:
    currently running distress beacon...
    setup: 2x remote armor nestors, 1x shield nightmare, crap fits

    too much ecm, too high hitpoints, we are doing it for like 30min already and only got to the second spawn, i hope theres not another... maybe works when counteracting the ecm somehow, we have no eccm :D

    edit: okay, we got a third spawn, so we ragequited

    for everyone else, each spawn had 8 cruisers, some frigs, first spawn had 4-6 ecm cruiser, second spawn had a fleeing cruiser, moved to 150km...


    Agreed, the amount of ECM in these sites is ridiculous and ECCM just doesn't seem to work. Haven't finished one yet running 2 to 4 domis. Maybe with a dedicated trigger and silly sensor strength but I haven't tried that yet.

    As I see it now, all you could do would be marauders.
    Omia Ibruin
    GO' R0V
    Pandemic Horde
    #20 - 2014-08-11 18:35:17 UTC
    "The re-spawn time between an incursion ending and it re-spawning has been lowered."

    Sing Hallelujah!
    Sing it
    Sing Hallelujah!
    Sing it, yeah
    Sing Hallelujah!

    Sing Hallelujah!
    Sing it
    Sing Hallelujah!
    Sing it, yeah
    Sing Hallelujah!
    Sing Hallelujah!

    Sing Hallelujah!
    Sing it
    Sing Hallelujah!
    Sing it



    Dr-Alban
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