Wormholes

While I only tried to live in a wormhole for a few weeks ina LONG past. my 2 cents are. Seems clear that peopel that live in the hoels feel their activities will be harder to control. But seems that is exactly what ccp wants.

Its like a group of hunters/fur trappers complaining that the white bear they hunt is too hard to find (its almost extinct), they want somethign to make easier to find the remaining bears. the government on other hand make rules that make it harder to hunt and find the white bears. The hunters get mad and angry. But on the long run that will save them, because that will open space for the bear population to replenish.. If nothing was done on other hand the bear would eventually go extinct and no matter how easy was to hunt one.. there would not be enough bears to feed all the fur trappers.

20km or 40km, the time it takes a dread to warp off a hole and back to the hole remains the same. All the issues that we've brought up previously are still problematic, so I'll bring them up again on behalf of the community:

1) Rage rolling becomes much more annoying for large groups. This limits their ability to find content that they can take, whether it be site-runners to kill (which you *have* to rage-roll for, incidentally) or other large groups. The proposed change slows down chain-rolling, slowing down the speed at which content can be found. This also has the side effect of making farming safer, because the probability being rolled into whilst running sites comes down to how many holes can be opened whilst your caps are not in their POS. Less holes=less chance of dying to everyone else.

2) Rage rolling becomes essentially impossible for small groups. They also have to find content, and rolling the chain is often the only way to reliably find content of interest - whether that be PvP or PvE or anything else. The proposed changes stop you from being able to do this without fighting the larger groups... which you can't do because numbers are important in every case. Small groups can no longer rage-roll consistently, especially given that most larger groups will seed scouts into their chain.

3) Committing capitals to wormholes outside of home systems requires winning the fight or losing the cap... which in turn means that it won't be committed by anyone that hasn't already got the forces on-grid to win it. The proposed change ensures that capitals shoved into another wormhole can't get back into home system. Whereas we currently see Triage used to balance out fights against bigger entities, smaller entities can't afford to lose the triage carrier every time, so they'll just stop bringing them. Less fights is bad for everyone.

4) Using our capitals in nullsec (and arguably losec) means losing them. We're not stupid. The proposed change would strand our capitals 15-20km away from the hole. The fight would become a race against time: will they be able to form up capitals/supercapitals to kill our triage archon before we get it back into the hole? In most cases, the answer will be no. Power projection means that we can no longer commit capitals. It's bad enough at present, without increasing the scope of the problem. Once again, less fights is bad for everyone.

5) Sub-capital wormholes also suffer from the problem because orcas land far away too. The major difference between rolling C4 wormholes and C5 wormholes is that C4 wormholes use Orcas. If those orcas are guaranteed to be in danger, they're also guaranteed to die. We'll take orca kills any time of the day. So will other groups. This means that C4 groups also need to be fielding support fleets for their orca if they don't fancy losing them daily. Bad for small groups, which means they'll leave, which means we lose more groups and hence, lose content.


The error here is the belief that all groups can afford to field support groups. We can't. We aren't 10000 man coalitions, because wormholes can't support that kind of lifestyle. There is a maximum limit to how many people can fit into a wormhole, and unless we're now expecting all pilots to be on all of the time, that means that this change will make smaller groups increasingly unfeasible.

I originally made most of these points on a reddit post here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2cro9k/where_are_the_devblogs/cjihkl9. Some inital discussion over it can also be found.

This improves them for those who not so lazy and ready to spend this time - which is also goes well with Eve's design concepts, as it gives additional benefits or those ready to contribute some effort.

I personally would like to see wormholes to become more close to its original desing - [mostly] uninhabited space full of totally unpredictable and deadly encounters either with other players, and with environment itself - with some unique content which can't be seen anywhere else. To be explorer's paradise. Not another boring ratting grounds and PEW-PEW fest, with a little bit flavor.

Small Groups living in C1-C3 can not afford to form a defense fleet for their ships, bringing in Fuel for example, yes sometimes even don't have enough people to have Scouts on every wormhole. If this change will come with Hyperion Patch I am seeing possibly C3, maybe C2, but for sure C1 decreasing a lot in Population and Content and I think they are affected as much as higher class wormholes with their capitals are affected. No C2 + C3 can risk an orca anymore. If you have intruders and don't know about it, becaues with 3 people you just can't have scouts 23.5/7 in your wormhole, the orca is 100% dead due to it mass and slow Speed, thanks to a single Warp Scrambler and a single Rapier for example. And so is in many cases any other industrial you use to manage your logistic.
Risk vs. Reward in this low-class wormholes is already bad, but it's at the edge of "acceptable" for C2 and C3. With this change nothing will be done to increase reward for living in a C1-C3 in the same matter as the risk is increasing.
C1-C3 can not support a Group of approximatly 1-5 People to constantly live in. That number is just not enough to protect your ships doing logistics, which will die now a lot more often, increasing your costs and just causing Demotivation because you can't do anything against that in a C1-C3 with just so few People.
If you take C2, where you can "theoretically" roll a static to increase your income and I haven't seen anybody doing this in my wormhole life it will now be completely unreasonable (risk vs. reward) from my point of view.

Please correct me if I have a wrong Point of view on this as somebody living in a low-class wormhole, enjoying all form of Content they provide (direct lowsec Exits, PvP, some PvE, some industry).

Funny really, those who live in wormholes choose to do so, those who do not live in wormholes want them not to.

Seems legit.

If you're genuinely 8 people you have no business using caps period. In any other part of space in the game you'd be punished for lack of support and it would be unsustainable, but in W-space because everyone knows the mechanics you can just roll hostiles out in near total safety.

If you're 8 guys in a lower class wormhole, don't use Orcas blindly I guess? Use combat ships instead, or just suck it up that you don't have enough numbers to close out all your holes. You're not entitled to PVE risk free in wormholes, no one is.

Why you have to live their? Who said so? It was designed as unihabited space. And as many others things in EVE were left undeveloped. Somewhat different farming ground, that is. Instead of creating it in explorer's paradise full of deadly traps and unpredictable environment challenges, CCP went - as always - the easies way. Just add some red crossed here and there, make them not so stupid as other croses and all be ok. This is the problem, as I see it.

You found the way to live their, despite of initial design? I bow to you, keep on a good work. But I simply don't care as to me the ability to live here isn't so important. I'm more like explorer, and somewhat less carebear or pvpeer.