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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps

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Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#441 - 2014-08-07 09:14:17 UTC
Simyaldee wrote:

Having to find fights by rerolling to a random unknown system without any Idea whats in there seems like it would take
infinitely longer.

Why?
Here is objection:
Andiedeath wrote:

All it means is people will need to work better together to rage roll WHs... Carriers can still insta warp with webs the same as Ocras... If you then think about it for more than 2 seconds there is an EASY workaround for those that want to rage roll...

So, you create bm very close to hole you entered with, than you send you cap in insta-warp with web to this bm, and follow it, than you send it back using same method, again. If you are really a collective, and not some creepy multiboxer, which cares only about closing threatening hole ASAP and continue with his farming, than it won't be too hard for you to pull this.

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link
Dalron
0.0 Massive Dynamic
Pandemic Horde
#442 - 2014-08-07 09:15:26 UTC
'Dons fireproof suit'

Idea : T3 / Battleship module

Activation/Wind Up Time : 12 Seconds
Duration : 10 Seconds
Range : 20km
Any ships jumping through wormhole after module is active and running will land within 2k of the ship running the module.


Cap Fights : Jump a hard tanked T3 through and activate module and then jump cap ships through and they all land in a pile.

Rage Rolling Wormholes : Jump T3 through and burn back to hole and then activate module.

PVP Benefits : Extra high value ship to attack on the wormhole if you catch it in time.
PVE Benefits : When rolling empty/dead WH's time taken to roll is significantly reduced

Problems : I'm sure someone will come up with some
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#443 - 2014-08-07 09:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Faren Shalni
umnikar wrote:
This is a good change. Will make the rage rolling gank bit harder and give the other side of the WH the opportunity to engage from their side while the rolling party cannot insta close if the rolled target is a bit too hard Lol


I'm not picking on your post specifically but it highlights a common misconception people have about rolling.

This notion that you are safe rolling a hole

So let me highlight 3 ways we (SSC) have caught rolling ships crashing holes including our hole

1. Scouting them out and watching. Whenever you jump into a WH you should ALWAYS scout it out first this includes getting eyes on piloted capitals in pos's. Before now I have sat and watched a piloted Moros for 3 hours while a corp mate sat in a dic on our side of the hole ready. you can guess what happens next.

2. They came from behind. Too often people who have to roll multiple WH's seem to forget that you need to scout the other WH's as well. So with good scouting from you own side you can find the hole they are trying to roll and then you can land the hic on them.

3. Going in Bhaal's Deep. You have someone in your chain you want to fight but they dont want to, so they warp a rolling team to the hole your waiting on the on the other side ready for a fight, They jump the dread then the orca, You have a golden window at this point of about 10-30 seconds to go all in and jump the fleet into their hole. If they follow then your fleet is there ready and they have to fight or die, If they refuse to jump out you can then with other members of you corp can bring in more guys to kill them on your side of the hole.

All of the above relies on one thing GOOD INTEL so suck it up and work for your kills.

Now onto the subject of this thread.

Yes this change will create more capital ganks IN THE SHORT TERM as people learn what they can push. However long term there will be less as people don't want to risk their heavy assets. This however does not make it a good change as it affects capital pvp, effort to roll the hole and find content (on top of the scouting, scanning we already spend hours doing) and logistics through WH's

In captial PvP triage carriers rely on being able to refit off each other, Dreads actually benefit from this change for dread blapping which is already a massive problem now. On top of that Capitals have a 5 minute window they are unable to move during, also can only jump through the wh so many times before it crashes. All of this make it worthless to bring carriers and bringing blap dread setups.

Rolling of holes and logistics actually are covered by the same issue. The need to have more people to essentially escort you with webs and jams and reps. All I am going to say is this, Why is there not freighters runs in low sec as this principle meets the same criteria? If someone wants to kill your ship then is going to die unless you overwhelm them with reps and force a stalemate. (unless you can bring lots of dps as well, in which case you are a stupidly massive corp)

This change is bad and CCP should feel bad as its a waste of time. There are so many other options they could of done and they decided on this rubbish. This would of been the greatest WH patch since its release but this change will kill it

So Much Space
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#444 - 2014-08-07 09:18:47 UTC
umnikar wrote:
This is a good change. Will make the rage rolling gank bit harder and give the other side of the WH the opportunity to engage from their side while the rolling party cannot insta close if the rolled target is a bit too hard Lol


Surely does help smaller groups alot. They get wiped. Encourages rolling.
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#445 - 2014-08-07 09:20:45 UTC
Querns wrote:

The general idea is that the act of using mass exhaustion to cycle your wormhole connections causes all of the anoms to, statistically speaking, concentrate in very small areas, rather than spreading around for more casual wormhole dwellers to find and consume. It's not a black or white thing, but rather how the anoms cluster and trend, causing a smaller number of more skilled dwellers to dominate the space, since they are able to track down and consume the content more efficiently. Putting soft barriers to mass exhaustion encourages these sites to spread out more generally, and allows for more players to consume the content.


Empirically there is no evidence that this is occurring to any degree - not if i look at the stats of the last few months of of the statics we have rolled into. The only factor that correlates with the number of sigs/anoms is whether or not there is an active corp in that wormhole.

Most of the time we re-roll for interesting connections - not because the static we roll into doesn't have any sites.
Heinrich Erquilenne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#446 - 2014-08-07 09:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Heinrich Erquilenne
Looks fine, but the distance seems really small. How can 16km make a difference for capital ships? The real issue is that ragerolling exists in the first place. It makes it way too convenient for groups to close wormholes until they get something close to their home bases while cutting inhabitants or explorers from support very quickly. This should only be achieveable by a very large force (because i'm fine with larger groups stomping smaller ones).

Currently ratting in wormhole space with big ships is suicidal to say the least. That's why WH space is dead. Now increasing the risks of player disruption for small groups trying to exploit the mass limit mechanics at their own advantage is a step in the right direction but it should be seen as a first step. It won't suddently make wormhole space useful space. Wormhome cynos would add some tools for people willing to deny kills to people looking for pvp to use this space to do their own stuff. If there's no reliable way to deny kills to people doing pvp then ratting is stupid and should be considered suicide, and without interesting pve content we all know that pvp is hard to find. Both groups (pve and pvp) should have a fair chance to get what they want, and IMO the devs should go further and tweak more stuff.
Tuscor
13.
#447 - 2014-08-07 09:27:45 UTC
I think all the proposed changes are brilliant, except the one where ships spawn off the wormhole at long range. Maybe if you brought it back down so that carriers / dreads were only 10k max off the hole that would be ok.

In fact, that would be good. Adapt or die, people. Man up and enjoy the added complexity. Stop being whiners.

Other changes are fantastic, I love the long lasting frigate wormhole idea. Very cool and great for sneaky shennanigans.
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#448 - 2014-08-07 09:32:40 UTC
Heinrich Erquilenne wrote:
Looks fine, but the distance seems really small. How can 16km make a difference for capital ships? The real issue is that ragerolling exists in the first place. It makes it way too convenient for groups to close wormholes until they get something close to their home bases while cutting inhabitants or explorers from support very quickly. This should only be achieveable by a very large force (because i'm fine with larger groups stomping smaller ones).

Currently ratting in wormhole space with big ships is suicidal to say the least. That's why WH space is dead. Now increasing the risks of player disruption for small groups trying to exploit the mass limit mechanics at their own advantage is a step in the right direction but it should be seen as a first step. It won't suddently make wormhole space useful space. Wormhome cynos would add some tools for people willing to deny kills to people looking for pvp to use this space to do their own stuff. If there's no reliable way to deny kills to people doing pvp then ratting is stupid and should be considered suicide, and without interesting pve content we all know that pvp is hard to find. Both groups (pve and pvp) should have a fair chance to get what they want, and IMO the devs should go further and tweak more stuff.


so basically null blocs in WH? screw small groups, gtfo and let only big ones play.

+1 for such great troll.
Heinrich Erquilenne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#449 - 2014-08-07 09:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Heinrich Erquilenne
Pavel Sohaj wrote:
Heinrich Erquilenne wrote:
Looks fine, but the distance seems really small. How can 16km make a difference for capital ships? The real issue is that ragerolling exists in the first place. It makes it way too convenient for groups to close wormholes until they get something close to their home bases while cutting inhabitants or explorers from support very quickly. This should only be achieveable by a very large force (because i'm fine with larger groups stomping smaller ones).

Currently ratting in wormhole space with big ships is suicidal to say the least. That's why WH space is dead. Now increasing the risks of player disruption for small groups trying to exploit the mass limit mechanics at their own advantage is a step in the right direction but it should be seen as a first step. It won't suddently make wormhole space useful space. Wormhome cynos would add some tools for people willing to deny kills to people looking for pvp to use this space to do their own stuff. If there's no reliable way to deny kills to people doing pvp then ratting is stupid and should be considered suicide, and without interesting pve content we all know that pvp is hard to find. Both groups (pve and pvp) should have a fair chance to get what they want, and IMO the devs should go further and tweak more stuff.


so basically null blocs in WH? screw small groups, gtfo and let only big ones play.

+1 for such great troll.


You missed the point entierely. This should make pve in wormholes a bit safer since people looking for fights will be in danger when they jump into a system. More pve = more activity, including pvp ones. Look at the charts, the maps. If there's no pve there's no pvp. The highest number of kills happen in high sec, not in null.

I'm in an alliance living in npc null. This isn't a secret, ratter makes our most interesting kills. If you give people willing to do pve the means to protect themselves then they'll come and "content" everyone is thriving after will follow.
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#450 - 2014-08-07 09:56:20 UTC
Heinrich Erquilenne wrote:
Pavel Sohaj wrote:
Heinrich Erquilenne wrote:
Looks fine, but the distance seems really small. How can 16km make a difference for capital ships? The real issue is that ragerolling exists in the first place. It makes it way too convenient for groups to close wormholes until they get something close to their home bases while cutting inhabitants or explorers from support very quickly. This should only be achieveable by a very large force (because i'm fine with larger groups stomping smaller ones).

Currently ratting in wormhole space with big ships is suicidal to say the least. That's why WH space is dead. Now increasing the risks of player disruption for small groups trying to exploit the mass limit mechanics at their own advantage is a step in the right direction but it should be seen as a first step. It won't suddently make wormhole space useful space. Wormhome cynos would add some tools for people willing to deny kills to people looking for pvp to use this space to do their own stuff. If there's no reliable way to deny kills to people doing pvp then ratting is stupid and should be considered suicide, and without interesting pve content we all know that pvp is hard to find. Both groups (pve and pvp) should have a fair chance to get what they want, and IMO the devs should go further and tweak more stuff.


so basically null blocs in WH? screw small groups, gtfo and let only big ones play.

+1 for such great troll.


You missed the point entierely. This should make pve in wormholes a bit safer since people looking for fights will be in danger when they jump into a system. More pve = more activity, including pvp ones. Look at the charts, the maps. If there's no pve there's no pvp. The highest number of kills happen in high sec, not in null.

I'm in an alliance living in npc null. This isn't a secret, ratter makes our most interesting kills. If you give people willing to do pve the means to protect themselves then they'll come and "content" everyone is thriving after will follow.


I spent 30 months in wormhole, C6, C5 and now C4. Ratting there is great source of income, its not suicidal but viable only in C5 and C6 cause escalations.
You dont make PVE safe when you remove ability to control hole collapsing, at best you make it more difficult. When we farm , we close everything excpet the static that goes into verge so if theres problem, 4 marauders can blap it. Small groups is what you want in WHs, since they provide content, occupy more holes, fly ships, get killed, kill you and all that. Hell, everybody rolls static to find stuff. Ive no interest in c4 static with 10 ore belts when im looking for sleeper anomalies with battleships. This change makes it goes away and forces us to spend much more time on finding content. When people get bored, they leave. Those few out for pew will eventually find none bar the few big entities in high end holes. Thats how it is.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#451 - 2014-08-07 10:03:24 UTC
CCP this is directed to you.

Ok this thread has reached it's natural conclusion.
We have heard from Large wormhole corporations, medium wormhole corporations, small corporations and the consistent overwhelming conclusion is that this change is completely without merit, harms all wormholers either in the short or long term and is universally despised.

We have also heard from people who have little or no understanding of the mechanics, or are from null blocks who resent wormhole life and can see it is a mechanism for starting to make it nullsec lite, actively trying to portray wormholers as weak ineffectual entities who are afraid of change, working the meta if you would rather see it that way.

There is no possible way to dress this change up with tweaks or polishing. The core idea is bad for the long term survival of wormholes.

That is the matter in the simplest clearest terms, people who are acknowledged experts in this matter have given clear detailed discourse as to the reasons why, there is actually nothing more that can be added to that, it is a comprehensive rejection of this change rationally and clearly presented to you.

You have the information you required, the responsibility is yours.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#452 - 2014-08-07 10:04:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Durzel
I think this is a good change to be honest, and will shake things up a bit, which of course people will hate irrationally (though good comments have been made)

The elephant in the room with this, and rage rolling, seems to be that people have a problem with the idea that their fleet actually has to be on standby for a fight, rather than "listening on TS, playing DOTA, ping me if you roll into some bears".

If people are actually rage rolling for a fight, as is suggested, then presumably they have people ready anyway? So they're unaffected by this change - albeit taking an extra minute or so per hole to get caps back to jump range.

If they DON'T have support online, and are jumping Orcas and capitals solo or with barely enough people online to dutifully protect it... err remind me why that should remain risk free? Lot of people seemingly straight up suggesting that the current mechanics of rolling in or rolling hostiles out should be so simple, so predictable and need so few (if any) support... to preserve "something".

Smaller entities punished for not having numbers available to support their caps jumping? It's hard to believe people are saying this po-faced. It's not unfair that a support fleet sold have to be available to support caps, it's what you'd expect to be required! Certainly CCP doesn't think it balanced that one guy can roll holes with 2-3 alts with negligible risk without even having to worry about support.

Then again that's the other elephant in the room: people who currently close up their holes solo to bear and sensing that plsystyle becoming riskier or - God forbid - having to involve/require other people arguing against the change.
Jack Marshal
The Malleus Maleficarum
Random Violence.
#453 - 2014-08-07 10:05:00 UTC
As a Small group, who is tired of nul-sec and the low sec blob wars
we have enjoyed the wormhole , the jump range will leave us defenseless
against blob, and will kill the content in the game for the small groups.
CCP definitely wants more blob's to advertise on youtube.
When this goes in to effect, since we will be POS spinning most of the time
we are setting up a minecraft and Dayz Server. To kill time until we get tired
of playing for a game we cant do anything with anymore.
Contact me in game for the Server address's as your spinning in you POS.

Anyone know any good online games, because this one is going to start sucking perdy soon
John Starski
Anarchist Dawn
U N K N O W N
#454 - 2014-08-07 10:06:24 UTC  |  Edited by: John Starski
Quote:
You missed the point entierely. This should make pve in wormholes a bit safer since people looking for fights will be in danger when they jump into a system. More pve = more activity, including pvp ones. Look at the charts, the maps. If there's no pve there's no pvp. The highest number of kills happen in high sec, not in null.

I'm in an alliance living in npc null. This isn't a secret, ratter makes our most interesting kills. If you give people willing to do pve the means to protect themselves then they'll come and "content" everyone is thriving after will follow.


So, you basically saying that you live in k-space and have no idea whats going on in wh and too scared to pve in them without this changes. It seems like the majority of CSM and CCP thinks about wormholes in the same manner.

This post from No Response guy will explain the obvious truth: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4886669#post4886669
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#455 - 2014-08-07 10:06:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Heinrich Erquilenne wrote:

You missed the point entierely. This should make pve in wormholes a bit safer since people looking for fights will be in danger when they jump into a system. More pve = more activity, including pvp ones. Look at the charts, the maps. If there's no pve there's no pvp. The highest number of kills happen in high sec, not in null.

I'm in an alliance living in npc null. This isn't a secret, ratter makes our most interesting kills. If you give people willing to do pve the means to protect themselves then they'll come and "content" everyone is thriving after will follow.


The difference is, in null sec, you rat for isk and the odd faction mod but in wormhole space the income is tied to sleeper salvage (and blue tags), the value of which fluctuates depending on supply and demand. If you make it too safe and convenient for farmers who do nothing in wormhole space but shoot sleepers, the whole wormhole economy suffers. They will drive down the cost of sleeper salvage , further hurting low class wormhole dwellers.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#456 - 2014-08-07 10:10:57 UTC
Durzel wrote:
I think this is a good change to be honest, and will shake things up a bit, which of course people will hate irrationally (though good comments have been made)

The elephant in the room with this, and rage rolling, seems to be that people have a problem with the idea that their fleet actually has to be on standby for a fight, rather than "listening on TS, playing DOTA, ping me if you roll into some bears".

If people are actually rage rolling for a fight, as is suggested, then presumably they have people ready anyway? So they're unaffected by this change - albeit taking an extra minute or so per hole to get caps back to jump range.

Smaller entities punished for not having numbers available to support their caps jumping? It's hard to believe people are saying this po-faced. It's not unfair that a support fleet sold have to be available to support caps, it's what you'd expect to be required! Certainly CCP doesn't think it balanced that one guy can roll holes with 2-3 alts with negligible risk without even having to worry about support.

Then again that's the other elephant in the room: people who currently close up their holes solo to bear and sensing that plsystyle becoming riskier or - God forbid - having to involve/require other people arguing against the change.


Right. No.
We dont need to be super active like ppl in null standing by for whatever sheep order. why cant we listen to music, play DOTA or anything!? Who are you to tell us? IF you roll for fight, you have fleet ready. WE roll for PvE, so we are what? Forbidden, should we gtfo? I dont see the point.

And smaller - we are. Like 8 people. We dont have numbers to pull uneasy fights just so w can spawn 10km from hole with battleships ( we cant use anything bigger then orca in 4-4). What you suggest is to form big blocks, so I smell null living guy here without any idea how WHs work.

I wonder why everybody wants to kill small groups, who are providing content, so bad. I also direct you to another similar post

Jack Marshal wrote:
As a Small group, who is tired of nul-sec and the low sec blob wars
we have enjoyed the wormhole , the jump range will leave us defenseless
against blob, and will kill the content in the game for the small groups.
CCP definitely wants more blob's to advertise on youtube.
When this goes in to effect, since we will be POS spinning most of the time
we are setting up a minecraft and Dayz Server. To kill time until we get tired
of playing for a game we cant do anything with anymore.
Contact me in game for the Server address's as your spinning in you POS.

Anyone know any good online games, because this one is going to start sucking perdy soon



I seriously doubt youll understand but it is worth a try, for the blind.
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#457 - 2014-08-07 10:14:19 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Heinrich Erquilenne wrote:

You missed the point entierely. This should make pve in wormholes a bit safer since people looking for fights will be in danger when they jump into a system. More pve = more activity, including pvp ones. Look at the charts, the maps. If there's no pve there's no pvp. The highest number of kills happen in high sec, not in null.

I'm in an alliance living in npc null. This isn't a secret, ratter makes our most interesting kills. If you give people willing to do pve the means to protect themselves then they'll come and "content" everyone is thriving after will follow.


The difference is, in null sec, you rat for isk and the odd faction mod but in wormhole space the income is tied to sleeper salvage (and blue tags), the value of which fluctuates depending on supply and demand. If you make it too safe and convenient for farmers who do nothing in wormhole space but shoot sleepers, the whole wormhole economy suffers. They will drive down the cost of sleeper salvage , further hurting low class wormhole dwellers.


Nonono. Blue loot is fixed price and melted ribbons are already so low it aint even funny. Die in T3s more plox.
Every WH dweller is hit by price change, but more ppl in WH will lead to even lower price. Hell, hope stuff gets cheaper too.

MOst of what to do in WH is farm, get isk and spend it elsewhere. Much like rats in null, blue loot in WHs is the same. EVen without the drops you can make great isk from it. ANd given sheer amount of systems to farm in, ist nigh impossible to impact this.
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#458 - 2014-08-07 10:16:19 UTC
I for one like this change. While it may seem detrimental to those who are very well integrated into the current system, I believe that is the point. This change makes rolling holes harder with only high-mass ships. In theory, this will lead to a pipe in wh space lasting longer as people are less likely to roll it. Also it makes jumping into fight and then just jumping out harder as you may spawn out of the already large 5km jump range. I think this is a good change as it creates challenges for smart players to overcome and utilize, and diversify the styles of dealing with wh space.
Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#459 - 2014-08-07 10:17:14 UTC
Dalron wrote:
'Dons fireproof suit'

Idea : T3 / Battleship module

Activation/Wind Up Time : 12 Seconds
Duration : 10 Seconds
Range : 20km
Any ships jumping through wormhole after module is active and running will land within 2k of the ship running the module.


Cap Fights : Jump a hard tanked T3 through and activate module and then jump cap ships through and they all land in a pile.

Rage Rolling Wormholes : Jump T3 through and burn back to hole and then activate module.

PVP Benefits : Extra high value ship to attack on the wormhole if you catch it in time.
PVE Benefits : When rolling empty/dead WH's time taken to roll is significantly reduced

Problems : I'm sure someone will come up with some



How is this in any way different to the current system? It's like you slapped on a band-aid for a problem that shouldn't even exist!


Literally this idea for mass-based jumping is the worst idea for a change to w-space that I have ever heard. And that's including the idea to have some sort of mass-stabilizing unit to deploy around a wormhole. Fozzie, I don't know who gave you this idea or (heaven forbid) if you came up with it yourself, but either way you and your team have been seriously mislead if you think this will have a net-positive change on w-space.

Infact, the only way I can think of to make this change WORSE, is to also add mass-regeneration to all wormholes.
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#460 - 2014-08-07 10:17:35 UTC
Pavel Sohaj wrote:
Durzel wrote:
I think this is a good change to be honest, and will shake things up a bit, which of course people will hate irrationally (though good comments have been made)

The elephant in the room with this, and rage rolling, seems to be that people have a problem with the idea that their fleet actually has to be on standby for a fight, rather than "listening on TS, playing DOTA, ping me if you roll into some bears".

If people are actually rage rolling for a fight, as is suggested, then presumably they have people ready anyway? So they're unaffected by this change - albeit taking an extra minute or so per hole to get caps back to jump range.

Smaller entities punished for not having numbers available to support their caps jumping? It's hard to believe people are saying this po-faced. It's not unfair that a support fleet sold have to be available to support caps, it's what you'd expect to be required! Certainly CCP doesn't think it balanced that one guy can roll holes with 2-3 alts with negligible risk without even having to worry about support.

Then again that's the other elephant in the room: people who currently close up their holes solo to bear and sensing that plsystyle becoming riskier or - God forbid - having to involve/require other people arguing against the change.


Right. No.
We dont need to be super active like ppl in null standing by for whatever sheep order. why cant we listen to music, play DOTA or anything!? Who are you to tell us? IF you roll for fight, you have fleet ready. WE roll for PvE, so we are what? Forbidden, should we gtfo? I dont see the point.

And smaller - we are. Like 8 people. We dont have numbers to pull uneasy fights just so w can spawn 10km from hole with battleships ( we cant use anything bigger then orca in 4-4). What you suggest is to form big blocks, so I smell null living guy here without any idea how WHs work.

I wonder why everybody wants to kill small groups, who are providing content, so bad. I also direct you to another similar post

Jack Marshal wrote:
As a Small group, who is tired of nul-sec and the low sec blob wars
we have enjoyed the wormhole , the jump range will leave us defenseless
against blob, and will kill the content in the game for the small groups.
CCP definitely wants more blob's to advertise on youtube.
When this goes in to effect, since we will be POS spinning most of the time
we are setting up a minecraft and Dayz Server. To kill time until we get tired
of playing for a game we cant do anything with anymore.
Contact me in game for the Server address's as your spinning in you POS.

Anyone know any good online games, because this one is going to start sucking perdy soon



I seriously doubt youll understand but it is worth a try, for the blind.

If you're genuinely 8 people you have no business using caps period. In any other part of space in the game you'd be punished for lack of support and it would be unsustainable, but in W-space because everyone knows the mechanics you can just roll hostiles out in near total safety.

If you're 8 guys in a lower class wormhole, don't use Orcas blindly I guess? Use combat ships instead, or just suck it up that you don't have enough numbers to close out all your holes. You're not entitled to PVE risk free in wormholes, no one is.