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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps

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Author
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#481 - 2014-08-07 11:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Faren Shalni
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
Valenthe de Celine wrote:

You seem to have no idea how many empty C5 and C6 wormholes are out there with 30+ combat anomalies in them. It's like a graveyard out there. If there's so much money to be had, why are these boundless riches left unattended?

Because people are lazy.


no because it takes hours to run that many sites then salvage. on top of that you not even guaranteed the rewards as you have to go out of WH space to sell it which puts it at risk of being ganked and lost.

Edit: Spelling errors

So Much Space

John Starski
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#482 - 2014-08-07 11:06:44 UTC  |  Edited by: John Starski
Kagura Nikon wrote:
While I only tried to live in a wormhole for a few weeks ina LONG past. my 2 cents are. Seems clear that peopel that live in the hoels feel their activities will be harder to control. But seems that is exactly what ccp wants.

Its like a group of hunters/fur trappers complaining that the white bear they hunt is too hard to find (its almost extinct), they want somethign to make easier to find the remaining bears. the government on other hand make rules that make it harder to hunt and find the white bears. The hunters get mad and angry. But on the long run that will save them, because that will open space for the bear population to replenish.. If nothing was done on other hand the bear would eventually go extinct and no matter how easy was to hunt one.. there would not be enough bears to feed all the fur trappers.



It's more like there are still plenty of bears and no extinction possibility but goverment desides to dig deep wide ditch with crocodiles around the place where they live. And then calls this "new and exciting improvement in hunting"! Big smile
Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#483 - 2014-08-07 11:09:37 UTC
Oreamnos Amric wrote:
Ray Kyonhe wrote:

Because people are lazy.


People are indeed lazy. This mechanic makes rolling holes more time consuming therefore lazy people won't bother. Instead they'll log off and do something else. How does that improve wormholes?

This improves them for those who not so lazy and ready to spend this time - which is also goes well with Eve's design concepts, as it gives additional benefits or those ready to contribute some effort.

I personally would like to see wormholes to become more close to its original desing - [mostly] uninhabited space full of totally unpredictable and deadly encounters either with other players, and with environment itself - with some unique content which can't be seen anywhere else. To be explorer's paradise. Not another boring ratting grounds and PEW-PEW fest, with a little bit flavor.

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link

TKL HUN
Jugis Modo Utopia
pwn-O-graphy
#484 - 2014-08-07 11:10:18 UTC
I can only repeat myself, don't kill WH space, fix nullsec.

Coz this will kill WH space sadly...

So -1.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#485 - 2014-08-07 11:12:01 UTC
John Starski wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
While I only tried to live in a wormhole for a few weeks ina LONG past. my 2 cents are. Seems clear that peopel that live in the hoels feel their activities will be harder to control. But seems that is exactly what ccp wants.

Its like a group of hunters/fur trappers complaining that the white bear they hunt is too hard to find (its almost extinct), they want somethign to make easier to find the remaining bears. the government on other hand make rules that make it harder to hunt and find the white bears. The hunters get mad and angry. But on the long run that will save them, because that will open space for the bear population to replenish.. If nothing was done on other hand the bear would eventually go extinct and no matter how easy was to hunt one.. there would not be enough bears to feed all the fur trappers.



It's more like there are still plenty of bears and no extinction possibility but goverment desides to dig deep wide ditch with crocodiles around the place where they live. And then calls this "new and exciting improvement in hunting"! Big smile

You forgot to mention the point where the new feature to improve engagement is that when you try to cross the ditch you get pushed into the crocodiles. You know, for fun.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#486 - 2014-08-07 11:12:57 UTC
Traiori wrote:
20km or 40km, the time it takes a dread to warp off a hole and back to the hole remains the same. All the issues that we've brought up previously are still problematic, so I'll bring them up again on behalf of the community:

1) Rage rolling becomes much more annoying for large groups. This limits their ability to find content that they can take, whether it be site-runners to kill (which you *have* to rage-roll for, incidentally) or other large groups. The proposed change slows down chain-rolling, slowing down the speed at which content can be found. This also has the side effect of making farming safer, because the probability being rolled into whilst running sites comes down to how many holes can be opened whilst your caps are not in their POS. Less holes=less chance of dying to everyone else.

2) Rage rolling becomes essentially impossible for small groups. They also have to find content, and rolling the chain is often the only way to reliably find content of interest - whether that be PvP or PvE or anything else. The proposed changes stop you from being able to do this without fighting the larger groups... which you can't do because numbers are important in every case. Small groups can no longer rage-roll consistently, especially given that most larger groups will seed scouts into their chain.

3) Committing capitals to wormholes outside of home systems requires winning the fight or losing the cap... which in turn means that it won't be committed by anyone that hasn't already got the forces on-grid to win it. The proposed change ensures that capitals shoved into another wormhole can't get back into home system. Whereas we currently see Triage used to balance out fights against bigger entities, smaller entities can't afford to lose the triage carrier every time, so they'll just stop bringing them. Less fights is bad for everyone.

4) Using our capitals in nullsec (and arguably losec) means losing them. We're not stupid. The proposed change would strand our capitals 15-20km away from the hole. The fight would become a race against time: will they be able to form up capitals/supercapitals to kill our triage archon before we get it back into the hole? In most cases, the answer will be no. Power projection means that we can no longer commit capitals. It's bad enough at present, without increasing the scope of the problem. Once again, less fights is bad for everyone.

5) Sub-capital wormholes also suffer from the problem because orcas land far away too. The major difference between rolling C4 wormholes and C5 wormholes is that C4 wormholes use Orcas. If those orcas are guaranteed to be in danger, they're also guaranteed to die. We'll take orca kills any time of the day. So will other groups. This means that C4 groups also need to be fielding support fleets for their orca if they don't fancy losing them daily. Bad for small groups, which means they'll leave, which means we lose more groups and hence, lose content.


The error here is the belief that all groups can afford to field support groups. We can't. We aren't 10000 man coalitions, because wormholes can't support that kind of lifestyle. There is a maximum limit to how many people can fit into a wormhole, and unless we're now expecting all pilots to be on all of the time, that means that this change will make smaller groups increasingly unfeasible.

I originally made most of these points on a reddit post here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2cro9k/where_are_the_devblogs/cjihkl9. Some inital discussion over it can also be found.



I'd like to add something to this very constructive post. I know lower-class wormholes are not as "important" probably as higher-class to most people and Devs here, but:

Small Groups living in C1-C3 can not afford to form a defense fleet for their ships, bringing in Fuel for example, yes sometimes even don't have enough people to have Scouts on every wormhole. If this change will come with Hyperion Patch I am seeing possibly C3, maybe C2, but for sure C1 decreasing a lot in Population and Content and I think they are affected as much as higher class wormholes with their capitals are affected. No C2 + C3 can risk an orca anymore. If you have intruders and don't know about it, becaues with 3 people you just can't have scouts 23.5/7 in your wormhole, the orca is 100% dead due to it mass and slow Speed, thanks to a single Warp Scrambler and a single Rapier for example. And so is in many cases any other industrial you use to manage your logistic.
Risk vs. Reward in this low-class wormholes is already bad, but it's at the edge of "acceptable" for C2 and C3. With this change nothing will be done to increase reward for living in a C1-C3 in the same matter as the risk is increasing.
C1-C3 can not support a Group of approximatly 1-5 People to constantly live in. That number is just not enough to protect your ships doing logistics, which will die now a lot more often, increasing your costs and just causing Demotivation because you can't do anything against that in a C1-C3 with just so few People.
If you take C2, where you can "theoretically" roll a static to increase your income and I haven't seen anybody doing this in my wormhole life it will now be completely unreasonable (risk vs. reward) from my point of view.

Please correct me if I have a wrong Point of view on this as somebody living in a low-class wormhole, enjoying all form of Content they provide (direct lowsec Exits, PvP, some PvE, some industry).
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#487 - 2014-08-07 11:14:17 UTC
Oreamnos Amric wrote:
Ray Kyonhe wrote:

Because people are lazy.


People are indeed lazy. This mechanic makes rolling holes more time consuming therefore lazy people won't bother. Instead they'll log off and do something else. How does that improve wormholes?


Sure the people in the game who roll, scan, scout, Fight, Farm, ninja huff gas, gank, haul and then deal with corp matters and the Awful pos system are the lazy people.

Seriously 90% of my time playing eve is currently scanning and scouting dead chains with no one in them to roll and get another dead chain.

an increase to rolling and therefore finding people to fight or WH's to carebear in is an increase to the already mountainous pile of tedious and time consuming tasks we Whers undertake on a daily basis

(tbh the only people I think who work harder than WH's are people who fuel and run Nullsec recon's and logistic divisions)

So Much Space

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#488 - 2014-08-07 11:14:26 UTC
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
Oreamnos Amric wrote:
Ray Kyonhe wrote:

Because people are lazy.


People are indeed lazy. This mechanic makes rolling holes more time consuming therefore lazy people won't bother. Instead they'll log off and do something else. How does that improve wormholes?

This improves them for those who not so lazy and ready to spend this time - which is also goes well with Eve's design concepts, as it gives additional benefits or those ready to contribute some effort.

I personally would like to see wormholes to become more close to its original desing - [mostly] uninhabited space full of totally unpredictable and deadly encounters either with other players, and with environment itself - with some unique content which can't be seen anywhere else. To be explorer's paradise. Not another boring ratting grounds and PEW-PEW fest, with a little bit flavor.


Funny really, those who live in wormholes choose to do so, those who do not live in wormholes want them not to.

Seems legit.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Freddie Merrcury
Fukushima Daiichi Electric Power Co.
#489 - 2014-08-07 11:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Freddie Merrcury
Alright, so can I try to think the same thought process that spawned this little gem of an idea?

"Hmm, lets see, how can we make wormhole space less lackluster after we dicked it up two expansions ago with the scanning changes?"

"Uh, gee boss, how about we, ummm, make it really hard to collapse every wormhole in the game?"

"Yeah sure everyone loves when we make mundane tasks inordinately difficult for difficulties sake."


Perhaps its in Fozzie's contract that they have to make one terrible change for every set number of good changes every patch.
Or perhaps its the inverse, I haven't figured it out yet.

I been kicked out of better homes than this.

Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Strictly Unprofessional
#490 - 2014-08-07 11:22:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Andiedeath
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:


Small Groups living in C1-C3 can not afford to form a defense fleet for their ships, bringing in Fuel for example, yes sometimes even don't have enough people to have Scouts on every wormhole. If this change will come with Hyperion Patch I am seeing possibly C3, maybe C2, but for sure C1 decreasing a lot in Population and Content and I think they are affected as much as higher class wormholes with their capitals are affected. No C2 + C3 can risk an orca anymore. If you have intruders and don't know about it, becaues with 3 people you just can't have scouts 23.5/7 in your wormhole, the orca is 100% dead due to it mass and slow Speed, thanks to a single Warp Scrambler and a single Rapier for example. And so is in many cases any other industrial you use to manage your logistic.
Risk vs. Reward in this low-class wormholes is already bad, but it's at the edge of "acceptable" for C2 and C3. With this change nothing will be done to increase reward for living in a C1-C3 in the same matter as the risk is increasing.
C1-C3 can not support a Group of approximatly 1-5 People to constantly live in. That number is just not enough to protect your ships doing logistics, which will die now a lot more often, increasing your costs and just causing Demotivation because you can't do anything against that in a C1-C3 with just so few People.
If you take C2, where you can "theoretically" roll a static to increase your income and I haven't seen anybody doing this in my wormhole life it will now be completely unreasonable (risk vs. reward) from my point of view.

Please correct me if I have a wrong Point of view on this as somebody living in a low-class wormhole, enjoying all form of Content they provide (direct lowsec Exits, PvP, some PvE, some industry).


LOL CORRECTION!. You can have 50 people living in a c2 and live decently. Also with 50 people its still easy as to roll the static in the new environment... All those 'afk people' that sit in their POS while others roll WHs will just have jump into a suitable ship and help out.

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public

Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#491 - 2014-08-07 11:23:04 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
CCP this is directed to you.

Ok this thread has reached it's natural conclusion.
We have heard from Large wormhole corporations, medium wormhole corporations, small corporations and the consistent overwhelming conclusion is that this change is completely without merit, harms all wormholers either in the short or long term and is universally despised.

We have also heard from people who have little or no understanding of the mechanics, or are from null blocks who resent wormhole life and can see it is a mechanism for starting to make it nullsec lite, actively trying to portray wormholers as weak ineffectual entities who are afraid of change, working the meta if you would rather see it that way.

There is no possible way to dress this change up with tweaks or polishing. The core idea is bad for the long term survival of wormholes.

That is the matter in the simplest clearest terms, people who are acknowledged experts in this matter have given clear detailed discourse as to the reasons why, there is actually nothing more that can be added to that, it is a comprehensive rejection of this change rationally and clearly presented to you.

You have the information you required, the responsibility is yours.



Quoted for emphasis.

25 pages and counting is enough. Make your move.
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Strictly Unprofessional
#492 - 2014-08-07 11:24:41 UTC
LOL CCP MAKE THE CHANGES! They are awesome! We might get some more active people moving in to fight!

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public

Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#493 - 2014-08-07 11:25:36 UTC
Andiedeath wrote:
LOL CORRECTION!. You can have 50 people living in a c2 and live decently. Also with 50 people its still easy as to roll the static in the new environment... All those 'afk people' that sit in their POS while others roll WHs will just have jump into a suitable ship and help out.


Please Show me one corp who is doing this and where this C2 can pay for Tower, Fuel, Ships, etc. Question
stierkobb
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#494 - 2014-08-07 11:25:51 UTC
The intention to make the wormhole meta more unpredictable and dangerous has been made clear at Fanfest 2014, at least on the Wormholes 2 meeting where I was present. However I would have never expected a change like the spawn distance which is really the worst idea.
Changes to K162 signature spawning have been discussed and I expected this or a similar change.

1) Rolling a wormhole
There will be no way to roll a wormhole quickly, especially for smaller groups/corps. It will also take considerably more time to do it, which is my biggest concern with the spawn distance changes. Longer time needed means more time exposed to possible attacks.
It will be impossible to quickly get rid of a potentially dangerous static connection (aka combat rolling), especially for small groups or few people online, so the connection will be kept and people will either POS spin ships, play another game or log off until the connection despawns. The reason for that is that smaller groups/corps simply do not have the bodies in fleet to defend their ships, so they depend often on quick and sneaky rolls.
This will have a detrimental effect on w-space activity and connections as wormhole connections can not be rolled to find better PVP or PVE content.
I wonder how often Fozzie or someone else actually rolled wormholes. Seriously.

2) Capital fights
As mentioned previously, dreads and carriers are committed by larger groups regularly and with great effect, but rely on a few aspects which are the same throughout EVE: If you jump through a wormhole or to a cyno, you will land in close proximity with everyone else that jumped with you. This is essential for carriers and dreads for refitting and support (remote repair and energy transfer).
Now this mechanic should be changed for w-space only, although the number of capital ships is severely limited compared to k-space, which reduces the chance to spawn next to a friendly carrier greatly. Imagine you jump 200 carriers instead of only 2.

With small numbers, carriers are often used as logistic ships so more pilots can fly DPS/Ewar ships instead of logistic cuisers.
The option to bring a carrier instead of 4 or more logistic cruisers is often the only way to take fights, but relies on the fact that the carrier can jump back if it survives a triage cycle. This option won't be available with the new changes, so less fights will be happening.
Again, a detrimental effect on PVP content in w-space.

3) K162 appearance only on first jump
This will lead to many unopened and unused connections and many more signatures on overall.
Less open connections mean fewer routes to explore and less content overall in w-space.
A potential detrimental effect on PVP content in w-space, too.

So instead of making wormhole life more interesting and concentrate on POS code, CCP chooses to make it harder and more boring, hurting smaller entities more than large corps/alliances.

Any views or opinions presented in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Hard Knocks Inc.
Valenthe de Celine
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#495 - 2014-08-07 11:26:35 UTC
Freddie Merrcury wrote:
Alright, so can I try to think the same thought process that spawned this little gem of an idea?

"Hmm, lets see, how can we make wormhole space less lackluster after we dicked it up two expansions ago with the scanning changes?"

"Uh, gee boss, how about we, ummm, make it really hard to use collapse every wormhole in the game?"

"Yeah sure everyone loves when we make mundane tasks inordinately difficult for difficulties sake."


Perhaps its in Fozzie's contract that they have to make one terrible change for every set number of good changes every patch.
Or perhaps its the inverse, I haven't figured it out yet.

That many WH corps aren't slavishly employing system security every time someone leaves a POS bubble anymore is a result of those scanning changes. Some were good, some were bad, but all of it promoted being lazy and sloppy with WH safety. Now they want to make rolling those holes (that are so easy to spot) extra difficult, if not impossible given a potential enemy fleet in the vicinity.
Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#496 - 2014-08-07 11:31:36 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Funny really, those who live in wormholes choose to do so, those who do not live in wormholes want them not to.

Seems legit.

Why you have to live their? Who said so? It was designed as unihabited space. And as many others things in EVE were left undeveloped. Somewhat different farming ground, that is. Instead of creating it in explorer's paradise full of deadly traps and unpredictable environment challenges, CCP went - as always - the easies way. Just add some red crossed here and there, make them not so stupid as other croses and all be ok. This is the problem, as I see it.

You found the way to live their, despite of initial design? I bow to you, keep on a good work. But I simply don't care as to me the ability to live here isn't so important. I'm more like explorer, and somewhat less carebear or pvpeer.

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link

Heinrich Erquilenne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#497 - 2014-08-07 11:34:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Heinrich Erquilenne
Valenthe de Celine wrote:
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
Chev Alsar wrote:

This means these smaller groups, who would normally log on scout and close holes before PVE'ing will now log on, scout the hole and log off. There is no maybe when it comes to whether they will lose their rolling ships. They will lose them and the hole will remain open.

It's a risk/profit game, what's wrong with it? If they can't tolerate risk/cover expenses, someone more capable/tolerant will take their place. WHs still produce insane amount of profits, they won't stay unattended. And you needn't to live there actually, it was designed as a place for expeditions in the first place. If you can't adapt to living there, then revert to simply visiting occasionally.

You seem to have no idea how many empty C5 and C6 wormholes are out there with 30+ combat anomalies in them. It's like a graveyard out there. If there's so much money to be had, why are these boundless riches left unattended?


Because the risk is too high and the rewards are meh. They could make rewards 10 times higher in WH space it wouldn't make a difference. IMO no local + cloaky ships are a killer since all you can do is anomalies and anyone with a half-brains knows how to use the d-scan. No tellers like local or combat probes makes pve activities sucidal.

Making w-holes harder to close behind you so that casual wormholes dwellers might be able to call friends for help is a step in the right direction. But it will definitely need more work. When you know you WILL lose the ship no matter what you do and no matter how careful you are then it's just not worth doing it, and higher rewards can't fix that. That's how people get killed in null: they get too confident and eventually make a mistake someone will exploit to his own advantage. The first step is the ability to make people feel safe and somehow they have to have the tools to be safe so that this feeling emerges.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#498 - 2014-08-07 11:37:07 UTC
Durzel wrote:
Pavel Sohaj wrote:
Durzel wrote:
I think this is a good change to be honest, and will shake things up a bit, which of course people will hate irrationally (though good comments have been made)

The elephant in the room with this, and rage rolling, seems to be that people have a problem with the idea that their fleet actually has to be on standby for a fight, rather than "listening on TS, playing DOTA, ping me if you roll into some bears".

If people are actually rage rolling for a fight, as is suggested, then presumably they have people ready anyway? So they're unaffected by this change - albeit taking an extra minute or so per hole to get caps back to jump range.

Smaller entities punished for not having numbers available to support their caps jumping? It's hard to believe people are saying this po-faced. It's not unfair that a support fleet sold have to be available to support caps, it's what you'd expect to be required! Certainly CCP doesn't think it balanced that one guy can roll holes with 2-3 alts with negligible risk without even having to worry about support.

Then again that's the other elephant in the room: people who currently close up their holes solo to bear and sensing that plsystyle becoming riskier or - God forbid - having to involve/require other people arguing against the change.


Right. No.
We dont need to be super active like ppl in null standing by for whatever sheep order. why cant we listen to music, play DOTA or anything!? Who are you to tell us? IF you roll for fight, you have fleet ready. WE roll for PvE, so we are what? Forbidden, should we gtfo? I dont see the point.

And smaller - we are. Like 8 people. We dont have numbers to pull uneasy fights just so w can spawn 10km from hole with battleships ( we cant use anything bigger then orca in 4-4). What you suggest is to form big blocks, so I smell null living guy here without any idea how WHs work.

I wonder why everybody wants to kill small groups, who are providing content, so bad. I also direct you to another similar post

Jack Marshal wrote:
As a Small group, who is tired of nul-sec and the low sec blob wars
we have enjoyed the wormhole , the jump range will leave us defenseless
against blob, and will kill the content in the game for the small groups.
CCP definitely wants more blob's to advertise on youtube.
When this goes in to effect, since we will be POS spinning most of the time
we are setting up a minecraft and Dayz Server. To kill time until we get tired
of playing for a game we cant do anything with anymore.
Contact me in game for the Server address's as your spinning in you POS.

Anyone know any good online games, because this one is going to start sucking perdy soon



I seriously doubt youll understand but it is worth a try, for the blind.

If you're genuinely 8 people you have no business using caps period. In any other part of space in the game you'd be punished for lack of support and it would be unsustainable, but in W-space because everyone knows the mechanics you can just roll hostiles out in near total safety.

If you're 8 guys in a lower class wormhole, don't use Orcas blindly I guess? Use combat ships instead, or just suck it up that you don't have enough numbers to close out all your holes. You're not entitled to PVE risk free in wormholes, no one is.



Him say play like me or you're dumb. You need to conform so he feels comfortable (sarcasm).

I'll flip the coin on this one. You large guys should probably move to LS. Drama and forum fights aside - SYJ was at least smart enough to realize they outgrew wh. They moved to where they can play the way they like. Call them out on all the crap you like.... at least they had the decency to move to where their desired play style is located instead of trying to morph wh mechanics to their needs. So Props to SYJ for doing the right thing. If some of you other larger folks really feel the need to play w/ big fish only.... Go to the big pond and play where the big fish play.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#499 - 2014-08-07 11:42:28 UTC
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Funny really, those who live in wormholes choose to do so, those who do not live in wormholes want them not to.

Seems legit.

Why you have to live their? Who said so? It was designed as unihabited space. And as many others things in EVE were left undeveloped. Somewhat different farming ground, that is. Instead of creating it in explorer's paradise full of deadly traps and unpredictable environment challenges, CCP went - as always - the easies way. Just add some red crossed here and there, make them not so stupid as other croses and all be ok. This is the problem, as I see it.

You found the way to live their, despite of initial design? I bow to you, keep on a good work. But I simply don't care as to me the ability to live here isn't so important. I'm more like explorer, and somewhat less carebear or pvpeer.


I suggest you read Fozzies dev blog. This was fully addressed, you might find it contradicts your assumptions.

I choose to live in a vibrant and exciting environment, there are some good changes suggested, most need a little tweaking, and players with experience are giving good feedback to assist in this process.

This individual idea however is universally regarded by all classes of wormhole residents as destructive to the very vitality we enjoy and seek more of. Not every idea can always be good and this one is a real shocker. There are no redeeming features and will cause great long term harm and destruction of the very goal that is sought.

I encourage you to join a wormhole corporation and experience just how exciting fun and dangerous life is here.
I believe that You will be very surprised and will feel as strongly as I do that there is a real gem to protect from those who would replace it with the best of intentions with just a bit of sparkly glass.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
Hole Control
#500 - 2014-08-07 11:45:34 UTC
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Funny really, those who live in wormholes choose to do so, those who do not live in wormholes want them not to.

Seems legit.

Why you have to live their? Who said so? It was designed as unihabited space. And as many others things in EVE were left undeveloped. Somewhat different farming ground, that is. Instead of creating it in explorer's paradise full of deadly traps and unpredictable environment challenges, CCP went - as always - the easies way. Just add some red crossed here and there, make them not so stupid as other croses and all be ok. This is the problem, as I see it.

You found the way to live their, despite of initial design? I bow to you, keep on a good work. But I simply don't care as to me the ability to live here isn't so important. I'm more like explorer, and somewhat less carebear or pvpeer.


apart from not living there and having truly bad ideas, how did you contribute here, bar good trolling?
Go complain about nullsec plox.