These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

First post First post First post
Author
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2381 - 2014-08-07 05:03:38 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
My original comment was addressed at something else entirely and you took that out of context as well.


You just said "a freighter can't prevent a gank from determined gankers".

And that is completely wrong.

Before, you were trying to use the tired old whine about how, because EVE is a PvP game, that everyone wants to force you to play it their way, and not the playstyle you want.

Well, failing to defend yourself is not a playstyle.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2382 - 2014-08-07 05:11:21 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
A freighter can't prevent a gank from determined gankers. It's not supposed to, it's a frieghter, it hauls ****.

You are absolutely correct. This is also true for any lock that protects valuable property, or policemen who defend neighborhoods.

Against a determined criminal, no deterrent is 100%.

The question is, why are you looking for a defense that is a 100%? Do you think that EVE owes a freighter pilot a 100% effective defense?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2383 - 2014-08-07 05:18:48 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
A freighter can't prevent a gank from determined gankers. It's not supposed to, it's a frieghter, it hauls ****.

You are absolutely correct. This is also true for any lock that protects valuable property, or policemen who defend neighborhoods.

Against a determined criminal, no deterrent is 100%.

The question is, why are you looking for a defense that is a 100%? Do you think that EVE owes a freighter pilot a 100% effective defense?


Sibyyl, you're mistaking "prevent" for "defend". Not, you cannot defend against determined gankers.

You can definitely prevent them, however. Not for 100% certain, of course, but measures can be taken against pretty much any normal gank, and they are not really that hard.

Not flying through Uedama or Niarja during peak time is a good example. Don't be where the gankers are, it's not like we're in every system, all day long.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2384 - 2014-08-07 05:24:15 UTC
Good point. Prevention is a 100%.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2385 - 2014-08-07 05:25:53 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Good point. Prevention is a 100%.


In all honesty, a 99%.

Even if you take the right steps, it *can* happen. But it basically requires people to be trying to kill specifically you, which is not all that common of a circumstance.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#2386 - 2014-08-07 05:31:11 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
The blame for Ganking falls squarely at the feet of the "victim". Period. Crying about your loss with tears of "I did not consent to PVP" is untrue. That little button called "Undock" is all the consent needed

No ship ever should be Immune to exploding in high Sec. If a group of guys wants to explode an empty Freighter. That is entirely their business. In a PVP orientated sandboxed MMO game, you should be aware that some will help you , some will screw you, and most will never meet you.

Todays gamer is a self entitled entity. Demanding their stuff remain "safe" while they do as little as possible to protect themselves. I detest these types of gamers. They are a toxin to every game they involve themselves in.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize the sandbox was all about your style of gameplay. Do go on about how other gamers are self-entitled.


Failing to defend yourself is not a gameplay style.

Freighters failing to defend themselves. What?


Not anti-tanking your ship.
When planning a route look to see if there is any systems with large numbers of deaths/pods and possibly route away from them or in the case of large, valuable holds you can either fly them off peak or just fly another day, leave a few ships along a trade route so that if you can't get your primary cargo through you can haul other, smaller cargos or do other things like mining, shooting red crosses, exploring, etc.
Bring friends.
Bring logi.
Bring ewar.
Bring combat ships.
Don't use autopilot on trade routes
Shop around for a channel that has intel, or, make one.
Split your load and use smaller ships.
Don't AFK, especially while using autopilot.
If you are truly worried about your cargo, and it isn't leaving High sec any time soon, use red frog to ship it.
Always insure your hull so that even if you get ganked, you get paid out.
Pay attention to third party sites like minerbumping and themittani.
Put an alt in CODEdot. At the very least create a negative standings list with known CODEdot affliates and agents as even if there are non CODEdot members in their fleets there are usually a few familiar faces in the crowd to alert you that there may be a gang around.
Pay for a permit and follow the rules.
Use wormhole space to move cargo.
Move out of high sec or move to less populous areas of high sec and route accordingly.

The most important thing to stress is never fly without intel. Sites like minerbumping will advertise in advance where they will be heavy in their operational scope. The in-game star map can tell you where the large deaths are occurring, being CONCORDOKKEN'D shows up as well so if you are seeing things like 10 deaths and 1 pod death then probably freighter or exhumer ganking. An intel channel will keep you up to date with any sightings so you know whether to bring big loads through or dock up and try again later and do something else.

Flying with logi and ewar and combat ships will ruin their day. This is an MMO, they are flying with friends so the correct counter is to also fly with friends. Honestly with the early warnings you get you should be able to pay for merc corps to have an all you can eat buffet of pvp action on advertised weekends, most of code is -5 or below so they don't even need to dec them and even if they aren't there are enough kill rights floating about that you could just nab them up and go to town on them non-consensually.

There are plenty of ways to defend freighters, or prevent cargo related decompression syndrome. You can even turn the tables on them but nobody is interested because freighters and their ilk are a bunch of solo divas who baulk at either having friendlies fly with them (seriously, grab some third party voice chat, fly A to B and talk, share pictures, play music, whatever) or paying someone to clear out the route ahead or haul their cargo for them or merc for them. Yet at the same time when they get caught with their skirts all a flutter in the wind they cry and cry about how unfair it is.



Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#2387 - 2014-08-07 05:35:59 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
A freighter can't prevent a gank from determined gankers. It's not supposed to, it's a frieghter, it hauls ****.

You are absolutely correct. This is also true for any lock that protects valuable property, or policemen who defend neighborhoods.

Against a determined criminal, no deterrent is 100%.

The question is, why are you looking for a defense that is a 100%? Do you think that EVE owes a freighter pilot a 100% effective defense?

I don't particularly care if they have defenses at all, that's something you attributed to me. And I was saying they have preventative measures, not defenses.

It's like you and your friends were at a bar and some of you leave early.

Then later you meet up and one of your friends says, "Hey, after you left someone at the bar came up to me and tried to start a fight!"

"Really!? What did you do?"

"I totally defended myself!"

"No way! How?"

"I turned around and ran away as fast as I could!"

...
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2388 - 2014-08-07 05:38:56 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
I don't particularly care if they have defenses at all, that's something you attributed to me. And I was saying they have preventative measures, not defenses.

It's like you and your friends were at a bar and some of you leave early.

Then later you meet up and one of your friends says, "Hey, after you left someone at the bar came up to me and tried to start a fight!"

"Really!? What did you do?"

"I totally defended myself!"

"No way! How?"

"I turned around and ran away as fast as I could!"

...

Excellent example. Do you know why one shouldn't walk home alone from a bar at night?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2389 - 2014-08-07 05:39:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Derrick Miles wrote:

It's like you and your friends were at a bar and some of you leave early.



No, it's more like you run one of those armored cars that carries bank deposits.

Why would you go through a bad neighborhood? Heck, why would you fail to even know where the bad neighborhoods are? That's just negligence.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#2390 - 2014-08-07 05:46:44 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
A freighter can't prevent a gank from determined gankers. It's not supposed to, it's a frieghter, it hauls ****.

You are absolutely correct. This is also true for any lock that protects valuable property, or policemen who defend neighborhoods.

Against a determined criminal, no deterrent is 100%.

The question is, why are you looking for a defense that is a 100%? Do you think that EVE owes a freighter pilot a 100% effective defense?

I don't particularly care if they have defenses at all, that's something you attributed to me. And I was saying they have preventative measures, not defenses.

It's like you and your friends were at a bar and some of you leave early.

Then later you meet up and one of your friends says, "Hey, after you left someone at the bar came up to me and tried to start a fight!"

"Really!? What did you do?"

"I totally defended myself!"

"No way! How?"

"I turned around and ran away as fast as I could!"

...


Who ditches their friends at the bar? That is the lowest of the low. Also, you don't have to say the "I totally defended myself" bit, you just say you straight up ran, that dude was like huge/had friends/other lies or truths. You can have a defensive action without having to add a caveat.
Captain Soju
Failed Diplomacy
#2391 - 2014-08-07 08:21:22 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
The problem with this assumed realism is that we don't have much real life frame of reference for what police response time would be like given the technological advances and apparent disparity between capsuleers and concord.


But we totally have a frame of reference for how space societies treat nigh immortal, infinitely wealthy demigods fighting among one another, right?


I'll provide you with a frame of reference. 17th - 20th Century colonization period in the Americas. Imo, its the closest it can get to eve. And even then, if a known criminal whose actions resulted in loss of life (or clone for that matter) or property, showed up in a busy town he wouldn't be left alone to roam around until he killed another person. In Eve, CONCORD acts like the janitor who cleans up the mess, not a crime prevention unit. DED however is an entirely different animal...

Quote:
DED (Directive Enforcement Department) is the police enforcement arm of CONCORD. DED has the responsibility of tracking down known criminals and attacking criminal facilities. They frequently operate outside empire space, wanting criminals to understand that they are nowhere safe from the long arm of the law.

Iain Cariaba
#2392 - 2014-08-07 18:13:03 UTC
Captain Soju wrote:
I'll provide you with a frame of reference. 17th - 20th Century colonization period in the Americas. Imo, its the closest it can get to eve. And even then, if a known criminal whose actions resulted in loss of life (or clone for that matter) or property, showed up in a busy town he wouldn't be left alone to roam around until he killed another person.

Quite often the known criminal was simply watched/avoided by the townspeople cause no one, not even law enforcement, wanted to be the next victim. When the known criminal did commit another crime, that's when the townspeople went crying to law enforcement and the criminal was either shot or left town and another crime was added to their wanted poster.

(Above paragraph rewritten to be EvE relevant)
Quite often the ganker is simply ignored by the carebears cause they're AFK. When the ganker commits another gank, that's when the carebear starts crying on forums, the ganker is concorded, and another petition is filed cause the carebear didn't want to be shot.
Bluespot85
What IU Doing
Brothers of Tangra
#2393 - 2014-08-07 19:14:36 UTC
Noragli wrote:
When you let one group of players mercilessly grief another set, you lose players.

It's obvious to anyone who looks at it with a clear mind. If players are not enjoying the game, they quit.

You have this certain group of players who spend all their days in empire space just suicide ganking other players because it's the only thing that gives them pleasure in the game any more. Many of the victims never saw it coming or even imagined it could happen, then suddenly their ship is dead and pod is killed by a group of up to 25 players in cheap destroyers. This "style" of playing the game no doubt costs EVE many subscriptions.


You have all the tools to avoid losing your ship...if you can be bothered to use them.

If you look on the killboards, most freighter ganks happen at a certain time of day...avoid hauling during this time.

Closer inspection of the killboards will tell you who the FC's generally are, put them in your contact list and dont haul when they are online.

Red Frog charge 18 mill isk to haul from jita to the furthest part of empire. Only a fool would risk losing billions of isk when the cost of getting someone else to haul for you is so little.

High sec is safer...NOT SAFE. CCP have never stated that high sec is safe, that is a carebear asumption, a myth, a fairytale.

Remember, there are hundreds of other mmo's available where you are safe, this is not one of them......and never will be.

Hopefully an ISD will lock this thread soon since most of the crying is from a handful of bad losers which Eve dosn't need.

/goes off to shoot someone in space shooting MMO.



Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2394 - 2014-08-08 06:03:59 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Quite often the ganker is simply ignored by the carebears cause they're AFK.


It's pretty common for us to gank an Orca in an ice belt & have no one notice for several minutes, where someone then declares "Gankers about to strike!" like some sort of carebear hero.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2395 - 2014-08-08 06:10:50 UTC
Christina Project wrote:
Samantha Floyd wrote:
Yesterday I hauled ~36 billion ISK across New Eden.
3 trips of ~12 billion ISK.

I encountered a bump Machariel on 4 separate occasions during the trips. Each time they attempted to bump my freighter. Each time I escaped.

Suicide ganking is not the problem. It is in fact the opposite. Web warping freighters is a problem. It makes it so the gankers have a near 0% chance of catching the freighter.

And you are so horribly ugly that there is no way someone can miss that you're a troll! :D


Great face though, seriously! :D
I love the colors! :D


The ugly person is correct though. Webbing your freighter in to an almost instant warp has a very high success ratio.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2396 - 2014-08-08 06:15:56 UTC
It's probably also worth mentioning that I've been flying freighters on various accounts for nearly 6 years & have never lost one to a gank or otherwise.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2397 - 2014-08-08 06:31:24 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Well, failing to defend yourself is not a playstyle.

It is

Part of what you get out of it is your own explosion

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Ocih
Space Mermaids
#2398 - 2014-08-08 06:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocih
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Christina Project wrote:
Samantha Floyd wrote:
Yesterday I hauled ~36 billion ISK across New Eden.
3 trips of ~12 billion ISK.

I encountered a bump Machariel on 4 separate occasions during the trips. Each time they attempted to bump my freighter. Each time I escaped.

Suicide ganking is not the problem. It is in fact the opposite. Web warping freighters is a problem. It makes it so the gankers have a near 0% chance of catching the freighter.

And you are so horribly ugly that there is no way someone can miss that you're a troll! :D


Great face though, seriously! :D
I love the colors! :D


The ugly person is correct though. Webbing your freighter in to an almost instant warp has a very high success ratio.


I've done it using a Corp Daredevil, MWD and dual fit webs. (90% web x 2)

While most of this thread defines EVE to a letter perfect example (the game of don't do stuff) this is the one option you do when moving a freighter.

I object to the fruity bump mechanic, never tried to understand it and never saw it as valid but for the time being, CCP do see it as such. This is the work around.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2399 - 2014-08-08 06:50:27 UTC
Ocih wrote:
I object to the fruity bump mechanic, never tried to understand it...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLrpBLDWyCI

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Ocih
Space Mermaids
#2400 - 2014-08-08 06:56:39 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Ocih wrote:


I've done it using a Corp Daredevil, MWD and dual fit webs. (90% web x 2)

While most of this thread defines EVE to a letter perfect example (the game of don't do stuff) this is the one option you do when moving a freighter.

I object to the fruity bump mechanic, never tried to understand it and never saw it as valid but for the time being, CCP do see it as such. This is the work around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLrpBLDWyCI


Link leads to a cheesy 7 second Yoda fail clip for those to lazy to click it.

The draw back of course is, the Daredevil web worked so your catchy reply fails to hit the mark.