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Wormholes

 
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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Random WHs and the New Small Ship WHs

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Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#81 - 2014-08-06 18:53:53 UTC
Luminocity wrote:
Currently any WH system can have at most 6 WH connections at any given time (including its statics/wandering static). Will this remain as-is? Or will this new "random" wormhole supersede this limitation?


This is not true.
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#82 - 2014-08-06 19:08:52 UTC
I really like the small wormhole concept.
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#83 - 2014-08-06 19:09:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kynric
Double post... android failed me.
Sanuki Sukuuvestaa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2014-08-06 19:10:44 UTC
Finally! Been waiting for this so long, and we pushed for this several years in a row at the Fanfest WH Roundtables. No reason could be made up big enough to make this a bad idea, WH space needs more interaction between groups, as long as its not statics (read my C4 post), i think this is going to be the biggest bonus to wormholes since March 10, 2009.
Verran Skarne
4 Marketeers
#85 - 2014-08-06 19:12:58 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
I finally see the issue with this.

There is no actual flood control with this wormhole (at least not yet). Meaning that as many can come in as wanted (its basically a gate for frigates, destroyers and heavy dictors).

You potentially have no control at all regarding how many people enter unless you have a sensor boosted alpha fleet or a smart bombing fleet on the hole 24/7.

It is not a issue now, but I see this becoming an issue later.

Have to see how the hole mechanics work.


How about this?

The wormhole loses stability as more jumps are performed, resulting in longer and longer polarization timers for ships passing through it. At high levels of instability, ships passing through the wormhole could even take structural damage, or the wormhole could become impassable until enough time has passed.

So, you still get a wormhole that can't be easily closed, but that only frigates can jump through.
However, there's a throttle that prevents someone from using it to move large fleets quickly (at least, not without taking on additional risk).

PS: This in no way changes my original thoughts posted earlier in the thread. Just throwing this out as an example of how flood control could work.
Angelica Everstar
#86 - 2014-08-06 19:13:48 UTC
More use for frigates in WH ?
Good

Making sure WHs cant be closed off ?
Good

This idea ?
Bad


Why ?
Course frigates are not going to be able to fight what they find, unless they where not need in large numbers anyway.
SB and Interceptors can already kill scouts and indy ships.

Frigates appeal is in that they are cheap and fast.
Cheap - well only if you clone is cheap too - which most WH'ers are not due to implants and high SP levels.
Fast - works when if there is not useful target, you can just move on to next system or run away. In WHs due connections needed to be scanned, the speed of frigates travel is most useless (minus for fast tackle).

Making sure WHs can be closed is a good idea. But it would be better and simpler, that when a connection spawns, it appears on BOTH side after 10-15 mins, regardless of you scanning or warping to it. This means you can still do "sneak" attacks, but that you cant block off your WH. This will also mean LOTS more WH connections in general, which is a good thing.

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Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2014-08-06 19:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Yeah the more i think about this addition the less i like it. I hate how popular interceptors have become in k-space due to their op mechanics, and the last thing i want to see is wormhole space full of ceptors...

I think this wormhole would be better suited to a new class of wormhole system. A system that has no moons to anchor a POS and profitable PVE that can be ran by a strong frigate fleet.


I get the concern Rek. If I had a concern, it wouldn't be interceptor gangs, it would be bomber gangs.

I'm still not adverse to this change. I still see the potential (and I'm less worried about K-space invading with interceptors because there are easier fights to find without having to map out a giant wormhole chain just to find the pew). We are willing to do it (because that is what we do).


Interceptors spring to mind because I think people will bubble these unclosable holes straight away, and as you know, interceptors give zero fucks about bubbles Straight

Has Bronya decided to move the corp into a C4 yet? Seems perfect for you guys Blink

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Johnny Twelvebore
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#88 - 2014-08-06 19:48:22 UTC
Make these appear in Lowsec too, that's where all the frigate pilots are..

Bloody hell, another eve blog! http://johnnytwelvebore.wordpress.com
Saulith Revenant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2014-08-06 19:51:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Saulith Revenant
These changes will be the utter death to any corp without 10-12 regularly active people living/pvping in the WH and the only reason to have that many people living there will be pvp post Hyperion.
Ziirn
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#90 - 2014-08-06 19:53:05 UTC
The only benefit I can see for this is large groups flying frigate blobs.
Set a limit on it like 10ish jumps every 10minutes. To not allow massive blob fests of frigs.
Loris Fritz
Pixel Empire
#91 - 2014-08-06 19:58:09 UTC
This is a great new content generator for wspace. A wh you cannot close that lets pesky little frigs to catch your haulers and the like.... A possible wh that has ever present danger sounds like a lot of fun... Especially if you are the one hunting .
Kerodan Alduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2014-08-06 20:00:06 UTC
I think that these new connections will be used more for scouting and finding conventional routes into interesting systems rather than attracting true frigate roams for many of the reasons mentioned above.

However, I am also in favor of the idea of a new WH system class which only allows frigates and destroyers in. These might have connections both from W-space as well as from k-space. However, these connections should have mass limits and be (theoretically) rollable like any other WH.
These systems might attract more daytrippers from kspace and could contain special types of rewsleeper encounters wich are tough to beat in those small ships.

+1 for generating interesting ideas, though.
cyboman
My Wormhole Hurts
#93 - 2014-08-06 20:22:35 UTC
Living in a C3 LS static, I normally get 3-5 connecting WH exits on any given day. Now you want to increase that amount?

I think CCP is missing the point of control that some players enjoy. Being able to close your connections to PVE is why I choose to live in a C3.

If I wanted to live in a place with muti connections that I had no control over, why would I not just live in low sec? Yes I can continue to manage the closing of unwanted exits but I think increasing the amount of random exits is a bad idea.

Ask yourself why more people live in WH space then low sec. I have no idea how to check this but I believe it to be true.
Bleedingthrough
#94 - 2014-08-06 20:39:04 UTC
This frig WH
Why would anyone want to go on frig roams in w-space? Such an easy way to get podded. The only people having enough members in cheap clones are k-space blobs. Why should these groups get a WH designed for them?

Rob Cobb
Probe Patrol
#95 - 2014-08-06 21:13:30 UTC
stop trying to fix things that are not broken ccp. I havent liked a single WH change i have read so far.

if you want to spice up w-space, give reasons for more people to move into them.

e.g. moon goo, ice belts, new types of site

if you want to make wormholes more dangerous,

sleepers spawn around wormholes randomly... new sleepers with hic bubbles, etc, use your imagination, add to the content, dont **** it sideways everyday and twice on sunday.

If you really want to go balls deep, sleepers having the chance to spawn at your moon and reinforcing your tower^^
thebringer
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2014-08-06 21:24:14 UTC  |  Edited by: thebringer
These mini whs....

Really? The only people that will use them will be people with a love of the fast ticket to hi-sec and only want to mess with groups that cannot assemble ships to deal with this inconvienice instead of inducing small scale PVP that does not belong in whs.

Why CCP...
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2014-08-06 21:32:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Fozzie, please cancel the small ship wormhole idea until you have some new content deserving of this new connection.

There is no need/place for this given the current mechanics/content. This new low mass wormhole would be better suited as a gateway to a new class of wormhole designed for frigates.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Deeone
Deadspace Zombie Factory
#98 - 2014-08-06 21:37:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Deeone
there is no need for low mass wh......random capital mass (to all classes of wh) wh would be way more interesting game play wise. The only thing small ships can do in wh space is kill miners.....if they can find one........
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#99 - 2014-08-06 21:39:04 UTC
hmm.... is this because goons have gotten bored farming hisec residents for kills and need something to log on for?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Cirillith
Czarna-Kompania
Czarna-Kompania.
#100 - 2014-08-06 21:40:35 UTC
Verran Skarne wrote:


How about this?

The wormhole loses stability as more jumps are performed, resulting in longer and longer polarization timers for ships passing through it. At high levels of instability, ships passing through the wormhole could even take structural damage, or the wormhole could become impassable until enough time has passed.

So, you still get a wormhole that can't be easily closed, but that only frigates can jump through.
However, there's a throttle that prevents someone from using it to move large fleets quickly (at least, not without taking on additional risk).

PS: This in no way changes my original thoughts posted earlier in the thread. Just throwing this out as an example of how flood control could work.


This is nice idea... taken from universe of Honor Harrington (tm) by David Weber :) There are Wormholes which are destabilized by ship jumping through - more heavy ship longer the time of destabilization, and you can pass through group of ships instantly but only up to certain mass threshold and after that wormhole becomes destabilized for a long period of time - it is quite nice mechanic, but I do not think it can be easy implemented.... on the other hand I'm not programmer :P