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New industry skills discussion (connected to Advanced Industry)

First post First post First post
Author
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#81 - 2014-07-24 21:07:02 UTC
I really love the idea of a skill which effectively nullifies the effect that you have on the system index. Setting up in a deserted system is counter-productive because you're going to be increasing your own costs just by being there, a way to reduce this impact would be a big boost.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2014-07-24 21:07:19 UTC
Saraki Ishikela wrote:
I've always found the time reduction skills to be a waste. Say I'm at work for 8 hours and a job takes 8 hours to finish, reudcing the time to 6 hours nets me 0 gain. Unless there is a way to queue up additional jobs I have tradiationally always avoided anything that finishes a job faster as I normally see a 0 gain out of it.

it's a waste for some jobs, but when I stick in a titan, week-long component run, or 8 ishtars I see gain out of that

TE is an tycoon skill because you need to be building at such vast volumes that your saved time outweighs the random time between job finishing and you logging in, so it is more niche but it is valuble
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#83 - 2014-07-24 22:08:42 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
When you are adding new industry skills, you should do something to make Battleship Construction V have a use (along with Industrial Construction V, which I believe is also useless).


Reasonable.

I think these skills would be well suited for a 2% reduction in production time.



This person read my mind.

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elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#84 - 2014-07-24 23:35:53 UTC
hfo df wrote:
[list]
  • Negotiation (old charisma trade skill)
  • Reduces salary by 2% per level. So a 10% salary will be 9% at level 5.
    ]


    Sorry dear, I have to inform you that the 'Negotiation' skillbook is a 'social' skill that gives you a 5% better agent pay per level for any NPC / Epic Arc mission you do.

    Eve Minions is recruiting.

    This is the law of ship progression!

    Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

    Rowells
    Blackwater USA Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #85 - 2014-07-24 23:38:41 UTC
    Didn't read whole thread yet but how about a skill to reduce team salary percentage? Something along 2-5% per level. Unions Connections or something.
    Matcha Mosburger
    Matsuko Holding
    #86 - 2014-07-24 23:43:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Matcha Mosburger
    Delete please - double posted and consolidated my posts.
    Matcha Mosburger
    Matsuko Holding
    #87 - 2014-07-24 23:48:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Matcha Mosburger
    I'd also like to see something similar towards specilization maybe:
    (I'd prefer material reduction for these, but get the impression CCP isnt in favor of that. - Really I dont do huge runs, so TE offers the low quantity or part time indy no benefit)

    Advanced Shipwright - 2% time reduction (or 2% install cost) for hulls only

    Advanced Modules- 2% time reduction (or 2% install cost) for module production only

    Advanced Rig Assmebly - 2% time reduction (or 2% install cost) for Rig only (Also requires Rigging V)

    Advanced Space Construction - 2% time reduction in station/outpost/etc production



    Other ones to affect the over all indy environment:

    Advanced Labor Negotiations - Reduces the locatilty scaling tax by .5 per level. Requires Negotiation 5 and Adv Indy 5.

    Your in a 10% start system? train skill to 5 Bam 7.5 % tax... your now more competative than yur corp mates or other indys in your area.


    Industrial Accounting - Adv Indy 5 + Accounting 3 or 4 = Reduction in station or POS cost increase (base don number usage)

    20 people running jobs? Indy account just reduce your cost increase to the equivlent of 10 people running jobs at that location.
    Kivena
    EVE University
    Ivy League
    #88 - 2014-07-25 11:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kivena
    Existing skill Customs Code Expertise could be used again for an industrial purpose - reducing the NPC tax from 10% to 5% at max level. This would of course run counter to CCPs (apparent) desire to move more manufacturing out of hisec.

    Industrial Tax Codes Expertise (2x)
    Expertise in cutting through the red tape of industrial and research regulations. Reduces empire tax on industrial jobs by 10% per level.

    And as other people have mentioned, giving the Frigate/Cruiser/Industrial/Battleship/Capital Ship Construction skills a per-level bonus to constructing the relevant ships would be an excellent idea. 2% duration or 2% installation cost reduction or something along those lines.

    EDIT: the same could be done for all the science skills. They already increase invention chance, but don't provide any bonuses to actually manufacturing the items.

    Director of Communications EVE University

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    Masao Kurata
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #89 - 2014-07-25 13:06:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Masao Kurata
    Production Line Management - Queue up to 4 jobs per level to be started when existing jobs become deliverable. To clarify, this does not affect your throughput, it just lets you keep production going with less clicks and less being logged in at the right time. Despite starting in a paused state, stopping one of these jobs will not return the materials, just like an active job. Installation cost is set when the job is queued and team availability is determined by the calculated start time for the job assuming all jobs run to delivery. Obviously if I'm missing anything that would allow you to get use out of a team beyond their normal life, that needs to be addressed, I think this is fine even if we allow pausing jobs though.

    Something that would allow queuing jobs to depend on the input of existing jobs would be nice for players but probably hell to specify and develop.
    MoonglumX
    Viaticus Consortium
    #90 - 2014-07-25 13:50:26 UTC
    Please, zero skills that lower cost enough to be mandatory at level V.

    I think we need to dial up the crazy. What I would really find interesting is for skills that boost industry but only if you are in a Corp or on a POS (whichever is easier).

    -- Corp. Engineer Efficiency : lowers your foot print to the system cost index by x% when running a corporation BPO/BPC job.

    -- Corp. time efficiency: TE boosted by x% when running a corp BPO/BPC job.

    -- Corp. Copy Efficiency: Copy times boosted by x% when copying a corp BPO.

    -- Corp. Mineral Recovery: x% of minerals can be recovered from a canceled corp job.

    I know a corp redo is coming. Just squeeze some stuff like this in there.
    Lloyd Roses
    Artificial Memories
    #91 - 2014-07-25 14:12:14 UTC
    This seems to be bound to those advanced skills only benefitting your produced volume, any fiddling around with the per-job efficiency would rather be a step back.

    Pls make industry more mobile, so to say a reprocessing plant with its own warp drive, a production array available on the same fashion.
    Komi Toran
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #92 - 2014-07-25 14:25:28 UTC
    MoonglumX wrote:
    I think we need to dial up the crazy. What I would really find interesting is for skills that boost industry but only if you are in a Corp or on a POS (whichever is easier).

    The problem is, it's so easy to create a corporation that these skills might as well have the corporation requirement removed. In fact, the only people the corporation skills will be unavailable to are, ironically, people already in a corporation but lacking industry roles. So you're basically telling industrialists to never join a corporation they are not a director of.
    MoonglumX
    Viaticus Consortium
    #93 - 2014-07-25 14:53:32 UTC
    Komi Toran wrote:
    MoonglumX wrote:
    I think we need to dial up the crazy. What I would really find interesting is for skills that boost industry but only if you are in a Corp or on a POS (whichever is easier).

    The problem is, it's so easy to create a corporation that these skills might as well have the corporation requirement removed. In fact, the only people the corporation skills will be unavailable to are, ironically, people already in a corporation but lacking industry roles. So you're basically telling industrialists to never join a corporation they are not a director of.


    Creating corps should be easy. Finding good corps should be easy. Running corps should be easy (*within reason). Like I said, these skills should be put into the corp revamp.
    Nevyn Auscent
    Broke Sauce
    #94 - 2014-07-25 15:18:29 UTC
    MoonglumX wrote:

    Creating corps should be easy. Finding good corps should be easy. Running corps should be easy (*within reason). Like I said, these skills should be put into the corp revamp.

    If such skills existed they should be Corp skills, not Industry skills.
    And if the Leader trains them they should benefit all jobs in the corp. This would make actual investment in corp skills matter for the leader rather than the current create the corp with a specialist alt, then plug in some random with no skills and just never update the corp.
    Komi Toran
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #95 - 2014-07-25 15:36:32 UTC
    MoonglumX wrote:
    Creating corps should be easy. Finding good corps should be easy. Running corps should be easy (*within reason). Like I said, these skills should be put into the corp revamp.

    You're missing the point. These skills creates a barrier in the game's social progression, where you're better off either as a solo player in your own corp or an established member of another corp than you are as a new member. That's not a good thing.
    Mackenzie Nolen
    Doomheim
    #96 - 2014-07-25 15:59:37 UTC
    Steve Ronuken wrote:
    Mackenzie Nolen wrote:
    hfo df wrote:
    Back alley production
    Gain access to use a team 1 system per level away of where the team is located. (At increased team salary [per system] salary costs.) => free ride on others' teams next door.


    This one I particularly like, but instead of a new skill I suggest this functionality get added to the heavily nerfed and existing "Scientific Networking" skill.



    Sure, you can't run jobs from station any more, but you can run them from a whole other region...


    Let's not try to pretend that 95% of people with this skill didn't train it so their alt could sit in station while running research remotely at their POS. I'd be VERY curious to know what % of characters with this skill injected have it trained higher than level 1 or 2.
    Lady Rift
    His Majesty's Privateers
    #97 - 2014-07-25 16:21:49 UTC
    Mackenzie Nolen wrote:
    Steve Ronuken wrote:
    Mackenzie Nolen wrote:
    hfo df wrote:
    Back alley production
    Gain access to use a team 1 system per level away of where the team is located. (At increased team salary [per system] salary costs.) => free ride on others' teams next door.


    This one I particularly like, but instead of a new skill I suggest this functionality get added to the heavily nerfed and existing "Scientific Networking" skill.



    Sure, you can't run jobs from station any more, but you can run them from a whole other region...


    Let's not try to pretend that 95% of people with this skill didn't train it so their alt could sit in station while running research remotely at their POS. I'd be VERY curious to know what % of characters with this skill injected have it trained higher than level 1 or 2.



    lv 3 was a short train and gave 15 jumps I believe. let me not worry about where I was in the region while haul crap around.
    Masao Kurata
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #98 - 2014-07-26 04:08:38 UTC
    Masao Kurata wrote:
    Production Line Management


    Hmm, I think I should maybe expand on why I think this is a good idea now but might not have been before. Now personally I'm not an industrialist so my insight might be lacking, but it seems to me that there was little reason for industrialists to log on other than to keep their production lines running (including any hauling) and set up market orders before Crius. Now there is hopefully a dynamic industry landscape and more incentive to attack industrial starbases, creating actual gameplay for industrialists rather than log on, click buttons, log off. Scrapping the requirement to log on to click completely predetermined buttons in a predetermined order shouldn't be harmful in any way.
    Patrick Yaa
    Royal Amarr Institute
    Amarr Empire
    #99 - 2014-07-26 10:21:03 UTC
    This is in addition to post #50

    It might be madness, but in his last sentence, he mentioned something:
    Add skills to allow for superior products

    This is, don't add ME/TE, something that benefits the producer, but the consumer.
    Add skills, that add HP, dmg, whatever to the BPs. This will have to be a wide array of skills, so you don't have to have an "entrance requirement" to make these, but a benefit when you specialize. There would be a need for this to be seen on the final product though, or else scamming :P

    But yeah, so:
    Gallente Battleship Efficiency Specialization: 1% more armor HP/SL
    ORE Industrial Ship Efficieny Specialization: 1% to mining yield/SL
    Cpaital Ship Efficiency Specialization: 1% more structure HP/SL
    Caldari Cruiser Efficiency Specialization: 1% more shield HP/ SL
    Gallente Destroyer Efficiency Specialization: 1% more drone damage/SL
    and so on and so forth, lots of stuff to do.

    This would ensure, that newbies whcich get into this will have a long way to skill, but once there, they are at least on par with the vets in this special field of operation. Your skills actually get you more money, because you can sell better products for more money

    On the other hand - Market would get messy... or you get the option if you want to build with that skill or not, but can sell the better products only per contract

    Or just move this system to BPs and do it all by invention, with an increased cost, more materials needed, more time needed...
    whaddayathink
    Venirious
    Do It For The Lobster
    #100 - 2014-07-26 11:33:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Venirious
    CCP Greyscale wrote:
    Hi everyone,

    The Advanced Industry skill has been updated to give 3%/level reduction to all industry jobs (ie anything you can do in the industry window, not just building); this should be rolled out to TQ in the next week or so.

    This should give *most* people a decent amount of value, but we'd like to give it some additional oomf. We are therefore planning on adding some more advanced industrial skills with AI at 5 as a prereq, so there's clear benefit to everyone in having it trained (plus it would be nice to have some more skills).

    -Greyscale



    So is that the final word on the 'Advanced Industry' skill itself?

    I can't imagine I'm the only one that trained Production Efficiency to 5 that didn't intent to be a full blown industrialist. A lot of people have no need what so ever for jobs to finish faster which makes this skill quite useless. It's actually worse than useless, because atm I've lost ~700k worth of useful skill points, and to say I get to train MORE SP into other skills that may or may not benefit me (particularly in my 'small-time' industry scale) doesn't help. P.E was required for the invested, but it was also useful for the small timers. This skill update is leaving this small-timer wanting an SP refund.