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Risk = reward is a lie.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#81 - 2014-07-20 18:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ria Nieyli wrote:
EFTing an Orca with my skills and aforementioned fit puts it at 451k ehp, and I lack shield tanking skills which could push it up a bit higher. Just FYI.
10% error, not bad for some napkin math. 451k ehp is a scary amount to chew through in ~20 seconds.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2014-07-20 23:50:14 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
EFTing an Orca with my skills and aforementioned fit puts it at 451k ehp, and I lack shield tanking skills which could push it up a bit higher. Just FYI.
10% error, not bad for some napkin math. 451k ehp is a scary amount to chew through in ~20 seconds.



It would actually be an issue if people started tanking orcas to that level.

Truth is almost no-one does. For the occasional individual that bothers, good on them.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#83 - 2014-07-21 00:04:07 UTC
450K EHP

Sounds great but the ability to gank capitals in HiSec was never tied to EHP. It was tied to the ability to bump them or otherwise prevent them from warping.

MWD, dual web frigate works best.
Arcelian
0nus
#84 - 2014-07-21 00:59:48 UTC
Yes, low sec sucks for making money, the risk is not even close proportionately to the reward...when you are by yourself. You can't just roll up to a .2 system, start mining, and think that sort of angle is going to be profitable. You're gonna get blown up, sooner or later, or just have to stop what you are doing anytime someone comes through.

Now if you had a corporation that operated there, perhaps things could happen. Would it be worth it isk wise? Probably not. But that's as good as it's going to get.
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#85 - 2014-07-21 01:07:23 UTC
Random says something without facts to support in GD.

Oh my, CCP do something!
Madam Lash
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2014-07-21 01:55:24 UTC
Rena Emishi wrote:
So for fun I have been mining in low sec and null sec in the new prospect ship. I can make more money afk mining in high sec.

Data and relic sites in low sec and null sec -- . Time to isk.. I can make more money afk mining in high sec. or running risk free level 4s in high sec.

CCP you game is a lie. Why are you forcing people to do mundane risk free activities by not offering huge rewards for taking risks.


It's not like you're taking huge risks in cloaky ships now is it? If you put the time and effort into null and low you'll make a lot more money than your AFKing mining will ever make...

While you're complaining take a look at the main mission hubs to see how many shiny mission running ships worth billions of ISK are killed to gank fleets because like you they think HS has no risk - its nice when people take the time to in game prove them wrong.
Rena Emishi
Doomheim
#87 - 2014-07-21 02:27:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rena Emishi
Madam Lash wrote:
Rena Emishi wrote:
So for fun I have been mining in low sec and null sec in the new prospect ship. I can make more money afk mining in high sec.

Data and relic sites in low sec and null sec -- . Time to isk.. I can make more money afk mining in high sec. or running risk free level 4s in high sec.

CCP you game is a lie. Why are you forcing people to do mundane risk free activities by not offering huge rewards for taking risks.


It's not like you're taking huge risks in cloaky ships now is it? If you put the time and effort into null and low you'll make a lot more money than your AFKing mining will ever make...

While you're complaining take a look at the main mission hubs to see how many shiny mission running ships worth billions of ISK are killed to gank fleets because like you they think HS has no risk - its nice when people take the time to in game prove them wrong.


I was talking about low and null sec activities as a whole not just mining in low sec in that cloaky ship... But just to cover the sed cloaky mining- granted their isn't a huge risk of losing that ship but having to hide and move ect to avoid other players is the hindrances to isk making along with painfully risky and time consuming logistics of selling your hard earned ore that you don't have to deal with in high sec.

Ill say again yes I know you can make more money in null sec... IF you are part of a alliance that has secured the space making it relatively safe dimensioning the risk and also easing the logistic problems with jump freighters and their own mini trade hubs etc. And that's how it should be if tons of players to work together to create that kind of climate the deserve the benefits. They doo have to defend that space and that costs time and money etc..

My argument is a small corp or solo player should have options to make a lot more isk in low and null sec because of the risk factor. Mining, data sites / relic sites and so on.. in low sec and npc null sec should have a better risk v reward ratio.

And your point about some idiot faction fitting a battle ship to run level 4s is a mute point. That person dosnt need those mods to make the same amount of isk he could make a living and T2 and meta level 4 mods. I could say what about that faction fit Stratios that was ganked in some ghost site in low sec... I just don't get your point, he is increasing his risk above what it should be in high sec... because he is offering a nice kill mail and loot rewards for his death.


I like the danger it keeps me on my toes I like the rush I get from the risk.. I just don't like that I can make more money and make it safely in high sec to such a extent that im gimping my isk making by going to low sec.

_Valar Morghulis, Valar Dohaeris _
Heavypredator Singh
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#88 - 2014-07-21 02:57:52 UTC
You can make 1,5bil in 20 minutes in lowsec and nullsec. But You need to use expensive ships - 600-2000mil. You cant do that much in hisec. This is real risk vs reward not the mining - mining is lowest of professions in this game and pays bad everywhere.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2014-07-21 03:13:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sibyyl
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
You can make 1,5bil in 20 minutes in lowsec and nullsec. But You need to use expensive ships - 600-2000mil. You cant do that much in hisec. This is real risk vs reward not the mining - mining is lowest of professions in this game and pays bad everywhere.

Doing what?

Edit: I'm guessing ratting. Seems a bit high for ratting.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
ZAKURELL0 LINDA
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2014-07-21 05:46:06 UTC
mining in HS profitable?????? either u r using isboxer with 10+ barges (which u didn't), or u r doing it wrong......

drop ur pickaxe and pickup a rifter, that's wt we called RISK.

RIP Iron Lady
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2014-07-21 06:19:54 UTC
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
You can make 1,5bil in 20 minutes in lowsec and nullsec. But You need to use expensive ships - 600-2000mil. You cant do that much in hisec. This is real risk vs reward not the mining - mining is lowest of professions in this game and pays bad everywhere.

Unless youre specifically referring to the dude who had 3 mordus spawns in a row then you are wrong. Wormholes dont even make that much in that time.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#92 - 2014-07-21 06:32:40 UTC
Raw Matters wrote:
It is in fact a joke what you can pull out of null-sec data sites, average is about 8m. Considering that you risk your ship and implants each time you do one, this is hardly compensating. Relic sites are better with about 20-30m per site, but they are hard to find and often contested.

Compared to mission running in high-sec vs site running in null, scanning in high vs null is a tedious and unrewarding task.


You seem to forget how any real constellation in sov null especially can damn near be completely locked down by a decent gate camp with bubbles at either end and cyno inhibitors in every system you don't want outsiders in. Paragon soul would be a perfect example. If there was some reason to lock it down then it could be very very easily achieved. There's comparably no risk for sov null because not even npc corp gankers in disposable catalysts can reach you. So of course the rewards are low.

Lowsec is the deadliest place in eve with a piddling 8% of the population producing 24% of the annual kills.
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2014-07-21 06:50:17 UTC
Null sec is safer than high sec, and it stinks submission. A small mafia who monopolises a huge part of the cluster's richness. A private garden for spoiled sons of capitalists and their lackeys, with the blessing of CCP.
Risk vs reward is indeed a total joke, look at low sec.
If you want to balance the game, change the sov system.
Madam Lash
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2014-07-21 07:40:18 UTC
Rena Emishi wrote:


I was talking about low and null sec activities as a whole not just mining in low sec in that cloaky ship... But just to cover the sed cloaky mining- granted their isn't a huge risk of losing that ship but having to hide and move ect to avoid other players is the hindrances to isk making along with painfully risky and time consuming logistics of selling your hard earned ore that you don't have to deal with in high sec.


You specifically mentioned mining and anomaly/signature running in low - three pages in you finally got around to talking about ratting.

Rena Emishi wrote:


Ill say again yes I know you can make more money in null sec... IF you are part of a alliance that has secured the space making it relatively safe dimensioning the risk and also easing the logistic problems with jump freighters and their own mini trade hubs etc. And that's how it should be if tons of players to work together to create that kind of climate the deserve the benefits. They doo have to defend that space and that costs time and money etc..

My argument is a small corp or solo player should have options to make a lot more isk in low and null sec because of the risk factor. Mining, data sites / relic sites and so on.. in low sec and npc null sec should have a better risk v reward ratio.


Then have you considered joining one of these alliances or are you the lone wolf type who is bringing a solo player attitude to a multiplayer game and wondering why you fail to make the 'billions of ISK' you keep hearing about? What it really sounds like is that you neither want to put the time nor effort into null and low and expect to make money doing your own thing without all that nasty defending your own patch of New Eden thing that everyone else out there who is successful accepts and thrives on.

Rena Emishi wrote:


And your point about some idiot faction fitting a battle ship to run level 4s is a mute point. That person dosnt need those mods to make the same amount of isk he could make a living and T2 and meta level 4 mods. I could say what about that faction fit Stratios that was ganked in some ghost site in low sec... I just don't get your point, he is increasing his risk above what it should be in high sec... because he is offering a nice kill mail and loot rewards for his death.


Yeah fair point - however things go quicker with faction fit ships and ISK/Hour is increased which is why people insist on offering them up as gank bait.. That being said I still break out in sweats undocking anything with a faction module on it because any highly motivated individual would and should try to take it from me regardless of what class of space I'm flying in. Alternatively undock in Jita in any ship with a decent sized hull and listen to the clicks of cargo scanners go off as fleets of Tornados yellow box you seeing if your stuff is worth more than their stuff. I'll give you that HS has reduced risk if you keep your head down but it isn't without risk which you blithely assume it is by your afk mining practices

Rena Emishi wrote:


I like the danger it keeps me on my toes I like the rush I get from the risk.. I just don't like that I can make more money and make it safely in high sec to such a extent that im gimping my isk making by going to low sec.


Okay... Well here's the thing my original EVE character was a filthy mission runner for the longest time but I got bored and decided to try Null in a renter alliance with other like minded people - and quickly grew bored because it was no different than mission running with only slightly increased risk and a different set of rules to operate under. The money was better without a doubt but I really wasn't doing much different from what I used to do in High. I grew bored and left EVE for a while before coming back and heading into a wormhole... and it was there that risk finally equaled reward. Sadly real life got in the way of EVE and I sold my WH character but you can bet your last ISK on whether or not this one is training to head back into J-Space

So my advice to you for what its worth is head to J-Space, initially as you can fly a Prospect try ninja mining some gas sites if you feel brave and are able to fly a bomber and prey upon those who are running sites with luck you'll catch their loot ship or a lone explorer who has done all the hard work for you. If none of that seems interesting use J-Space as a shortcut to null to alleviate the logistics nightmare of getting your loot back to a hub.

Or you know - keep complaining that EVE isn't a solo game.
Arknos III
Doomheim
#95 - 2014-07-21 07:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Arknos III
Meh. Risk reward is kind of a lie.
Josef Djugashvilis
#96 - 2014-07-21 07:52:20 UTC
I play solo most of the time and it is wrong that I cannot earn as much per hour as those who band together to maximize income.

Oh wait...

This is not a signature.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#97 - 2014-07-21 08:06:23 UTC
Madam Lash wrote:
Or you know - keep complaining that EVE isn't a solo game.

Challenge accepted?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2014-07-21 08:32:27 UTC
Tao Dolcino wrote:
Null sec is safer than high sec, and it stinks submission. A small mafia who monopolises a huge part of the cluster's richness. A private garden for spoiled sons of capitalists and their lackeys, with the blessing of CCP.
Risk vs reward is indeed a total joke, look at low sec.
If you want to balance the game, change the sov system.

Has somebody been taking dinsdales medicine?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#99 - 2014-07-21 10:26:01 UTC
Rena Emishi wrote:


Ill say again yes I know you can make more money in null sec... IF you are part of a alliance that has secured the space making it relatively safe dimensioning the risk and also easing the logistic problems with jump freighters and their own mini trade hubs etc. And that's how it should be if tons of players to work together to create that kind of climate the deserve the benefits. They doo have to defend that space and that costs time and money etc..

My argument is a small corp or solo player should have options to make a lot more isk in low and null sec because of the risk factor. Mining, data sites / relic sites and so on.. in low sec and npc null sec should have a better risk v reward ratio.



I don't think you really understand the way null income works.

A gurista system spawns up about 3B of signature income in deds and miniprofs per month, all of which can be collected faster in isk/hr terms than missions. If one person, say me, lives in their own system, they get 3B of easy income a month. If 10 people live in the system, then people get 300m a month of the sugar and whatever else they need monthly has to be ratted.

Most alliances run at a character density of 50-100 per system. ie odds are if they are undeployed, most of the characters aren't going to probe down any deds, relics or datas in a month. Most of them will have to rat for income (goons losing spaceships with 2x SRP notwithstanding). If goons are able to do a lot of probing down of content when undeployed, that would simply say whole-lotta-highsec-alting.

ie small is already big for nullsec income, as is thieving sov content.

Quote:


And your point about some idiot faction fitting a battle ship to run level 4s is a mute point. That person dosnt need those mods to make the same amount of isk he could make a living and T2 and meta level 4 mods. I could say what about that faction fit Stratios that was ganked in some ghost site in low sec... I just don't get your point, he is increasing his risk above what it should be in high sec... because he is offering a nice kill mail and loot rewards for his death.



deadspace gear usually thins the tank down by 1 mod, giving you an extra damage mod (or applied damage mod), and having the extra damage or applied damage shortens the encounter and reduces the peak and total damage dealt to your ship which allows you to thin the tank down more, which allows you to fit an extra damage/applied damage mod, and suddenly you are doing the missions in a very different way.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2014-07-21 10:52:17 UTC
The OP could just get a Nyx and solo 5s .