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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2141 - 2014-07-19 14:10:11 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Proselytos wrote:

This would add a lot of more fun, realism, and stops certain simple minded exploits which are only possible because of a lack of realism.


Yes, the lack of realism in a fictional fluid universe space submarine game is the problem.


People who cry about "realism" in a video game in which players are immortal because cloning + sci fi magic are a special kind of person.


Have you noticed how they never cry for "realistic" tax rates (I hear that when governments are at war then taxes can rise quite high!) or "realistic" response by the faction navies during those wars (Oh wow a Gallente in a fully armed battlecruiser in Caldari space, ATTACK!) or "realistic" law enforcement response (they turn up 15-60 minutes after you ask for help, if they come at all, then arrest the nearest Minmatar and go back to the donut bar) or "realistic" insurance (you don't pay a one-time premium of 25% of the payour which never rises now matter how many times you claim) or "realistic" PvE (bad guys often shoot back, also if CONCORD are so awesome, how come there are any rats in hi-sec at all?) and so on.

"Realistic" is a code word meaning "I want an unfair gameplay advantage".
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2142 - 2014-07-19 14:12:37 UTC
Yanada wrote:
I've always rationalized the lack of collision damage as being a function of the ships shielding systems. When ships collide they are not actually hitting each others structures but 'bouncing' off each others shields. Think magnets repelling each other. Hey, it works for me :-)


What are you talking about? You don't even know how magnets work. Nobody does.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Yanada
Demonstrably False
#2143 - 2014-07-19 14:15:27 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
[quote=Yanada]

What are you talking about? You don't even know how magnets work. Nobody does.




I didn't say I knew how they worked. I said think about what they do :-P

Kinda like saying, "think star trek transporter" ... you know what it does, but who the hell knows how that works either. :-)
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2144 - 2014-07-19 15:24:31 UTC
Pheusia wrote:

or "realistic" law enforcement response (they turn up 15-60 minutes after you ask for help, if they come at all, then arrest the nearest Minmatar and go back to the donut bar)

Not gonna lie, this made me lol for real.
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2145 - 2014-07-19 15:43:09 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Pheusia wrote:

or "realistic" law enforcement response (they turn up 15-60 minutes after you ask for help, if they come at all, then arrest the nearest Minmatar and go back to the donut bar)

Not gonna lie, this made me lol for real.


The old jokes are still good
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#2146 - 2014-07-19 15:57:36 UTC
Problem: Indy players get ganked in T3 BC.
Solution: Indy players STOPS manufacturing T3 BC.
Iain Cariaba
#2147 - 2014-07-19 16:13:46 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
So I've been using my CAS starter corp alt to mine with and boost for younger players over the last week.

First of all, by being in fleet, we turn half of local purple which vastly improves the likelihood I can identify a ganker, so I regularly check sec and corp of entrants.

Second of all, fleet members that have been ganked before, have ganking characters on contacts, and identify logons of repeat attackers. I translated those warnings into setting -10s on them, on the CODE alliance, and as I found out by losing my pblrd hauler miasmos alt to a wartarget, I also needed to leave my alt in a safe, and set -10s on pblrd wartargets so I can see wartargets from either account.

Once I did that, I typically had 3 or 4 pilots not 20 in local to review, and today I was mining in my skiff, in the same belt as a fleet mate in a retriever, I identified the destroyer on scan, 30 seconds before it arrived in belt, gave the retriever pilot a heads-up of incoming and I locked and charged it to close drone range with the skiff the moment it showed up. It did not aggress the aligning retriever when faced with an aggressive skiff, the retriever pilot was smart enough to not worry about getting all its drones in which prevented the stand off being prolonged.

ie the "escort miner" as envisaged by CCP works just fine, I could literally have followed the ganker from belt to belt if need be.

Come the 22nd, my obelisk will be no longer required to haul ore further than to the compressor, and I'll be offering contract based compression so people in the area also won't need to use freighters for hauling and can use blockade runners.

ie to my mind the toolset is very complete. early warning local, close-range d-scan, escort miners, improved transport safety via utilizing infrastructure - its all there and it all works, and by being in newbie corp fleets, we are training new players to use these tools instead of trying to break the game.

Everyone look!!! A miner who does all the little things he's supposed to do to keep himself from getting ganked rather than whine on forums trying to nerf ganking again!!! Shocked

:waits for universe to implode:
Ilovetomine
Doomheim
#2148 - 2014-07-19 17:11:23 UTC
I can't even move around space without someone following me with the intention of ganking me. Whether it be in a pve ship/mining ship, or freighter/hauler. There isnt even really any point in playing if you can't enjoy the game. I have been sitting in a station for months just training skills...

And before being called carebear, most of my pvp experience has been logistics, or small fleet stuff. It's different when you go out in a pvp ship, you expect to blow up.... Rather than being in a mission site and being probed out for the sake of hassling you..


What's the point of eve these days anyways.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#2149 - 2014-07-19 17:18:40 UTC
Ilovetomine wrote:
I can't even move around space without someone following me with the intention of ganking me.


I can't see a single highsec loss for you on zkillboard so they can't be very good would-be gankers.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2150 - 2014-07-19 17:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Atomic Dove
admiral root wrote:
Ilovetomine wrote:
I can't even move around space without someone following me with the intention of ganking me.


I can't see a single highsec loss for you on zkillboard so they can't be very good would-be gankers.

I'm not sure if his post was a joke, or he's just smoking some really strong that causes BAD paranoia.

Snip, Please refrain from profanities - ISD Atomic Dove
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2151 - 2014-07-19 17:22:46 UTC
Ilovetomine wrote:
I can't even move around space without someone following me with the intention of ganking me. Whether it be in a pve ship/mining ship, or freighter/hauler. There isnt even really any point in playing if you can't enjoy the game. I have been sitting in a station for months just training skills...

And before being called carebear, most of my pvp experience has been logistics, or small fleet stuff. It's different when you go out in a pvp ship, you expect to blow up.... Rather than being in a mission site and being probed out for the sake of hassling you..


What's the point of eve these days anyways.


You dont get followed all the time, hell you likely haven even seen a gank given the odds are less than 0.5%.

What you have is just run of the mill paranoia, everyone gets that.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2152 - 2014-07-19 17:27:01 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Jita 4-4 undock would be a graveyard as countless ships ram into eachother. And we WILL build a wall of freighters on that undock.


Wouldn't work anyway, if there was collision damage you would have CONCORD turn up and destroy the aggressor even if it was an accident. CONCORD would probably build that wall quicker than you.


You would be crashing into my wall, you are the agressor. Concord would be doing my ganking for me.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2153 - 2014-07-19 17:28:02 UTC
Ilovetomine wrote:
I can't even move around space without someone following me with the intention of ganking me. Whether it be in a pve ship/mining ship, or freighter/hauler. There isnt even really any point in playing if you can't enjoy the game. I have been sitting in a station for months just training skills...
Your loss, half the fun is in outwitting those who are out to kill you.

Quote:
And before being called carebear, most of my pvp experience has been logistics, or small fleet stuff. It's different when you go out in a pvp ship, you expect to blow up.... Rather than being in a mission site and being probed out for the sake of hassling you..


What's the point of eve these days anyways.
Carebear is an attitude, not a playstyle. You're playing a primarily PvP game, the moment you undock you should consider yourself a potential target and play accordingly, even when doing PvE. Ships are disposable tools, treat them as such.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Bolek Navasia
Doomheim
#2154 - 2014-07-19 18:52:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
I really doubt many people "quit" over getting suicide ganked, TBH. Such comments are just a thinly veiled attempt to be "spiteful".


Not just spiteful, they are bascially trying to "appeal to CCPs wallet" to get CCP to change something they dislike (well, dislike enough to post about but not enough to act on using already existing in-game tools and tactics).

The reason that kind of fallacious appeal always fails is because it doesn't take into account the opposite: creating a situation where the thing they don't like (in this case, ganking) would also cause the 'sub loss' they claim to fear. They don't actually care about CCPs wallet because if all the gankers quit they'd be happy, even though that would hurt CCP.

As a pvp player who likes to push pirate ships around high sec a lot, I'm a bored ganker target lol. The difference between me and the people whining in this thread is that I understand Im playing an 'adversarial' game and people are supposed to try to 'get' you, and half the game for me is continuing to save the screwall Damsel while the other half is denying the 'gankers' the 'Jenn aSide's Machariel' killmail they desire.



Believe what you want. It's no coincidence that Eve's declining subscription rate coincides exactly with the implementation of it's current bounty system which reinforces this kind of thing.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Paranoid Loyd
#2155 - 2014-07-19 19:00:36 UTC
Bolek Navasia wrote:
Believe what you want. It's no coincidence that Eve's declining subscription rate coincides exactly with the implementation of it's current bounty system which reinforces this kind of thing.


Please elaborate on your obviously well informed comment. Roll

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2156 - 2014-07-19 19:20:25 UTC
Bolek Navasia wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
I really doubt many people "quit" over getting suicide ganked, TBH. Such comments are just a thinly veiled attempt to be "spiteful".


Not just spiteful, they are bascially trying to "appeal to CCPs wallet" to get CCP to change something they dislike (well, dislike enough to post about but not enough to act on using already existing in-game tools and tactics).

The reason that kind of fallacious appeal always fails is because it doesn't take into account the opposite: creating a situation where the thing they don't like (in this case, ganking) would also cause the 'sub loss' they claim to fear. They don't actually care about CCPs wallet because if all the gankers quit they'd be happy, even though that would hurt CCP.

As a pvp player who likes to push pirate ships around high sec a lot, I'm a bored ganker target lol. The difference between me and the people whining in this thread is that I understand Im playing an 'adversarial' game and people are supposed to try to 'get' you, and half the game for me is continuing to save the screwall Damsel while the other half is denying the 'gankers' the 'Jenn aSide's Machariel' killmail they desire.



Believe what you want. It's no coincidence that Eve's declining subscription rate coincides exactly with the implementation of it's current bounty system which reinforces this kind of thing.


So suicide ganking has been in EVE since 2003, but 2014 is the year it's causing subscriptions to fall because...?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2157 - 2014-07-19 19:39:26 UTC
Bolek Navasia wrote:


Believe what you want. It's no coincidence that Eve's declining subscription rate coincides exactly with the implementation of it's current bounty system which reinforces this kind of thing.


It's not a coincidence, mostly because you just made it up. You do this to try and hold other people's gameplay hostage to benefit yourself. It's a selfish, despicable act.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#2158 - 2014-07-19 19:46:28 UTC
Pheusia wrote:
So suicide ganking has been in EVE since 2003, but 2014 is the year it's causing subscriptions to fall because...?


Because now is when I want it to be true, dammit. Roll

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2159 - 2014-07-19 19:51:29 UTC
Bolek Navasia wrote:

Believe what you want. It's no coincidence that Eve's declining subscription rate coincides exactly with the implementation of it's current bounty system which reinforces this kind of thing.

It also coincides with everything listed here:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-odyssey-1.1
and here:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-rubicon
and here:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-kronos
and basically anything else that came since Retribution. Hmm, let me see if I can pick one I don't like and blame it for all of the sub drops.

Wait, I got it. Clearly, everyone has left because of the new jump gate animation that I detest so badly.
Get out.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#2160 - 2014-07-19 20:23:27 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Atomic Dove
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
Problem: Indy players get ganked in T3 BC.
Solution: Indy players STOPS manufacturing T3 BC.


Problem - one indy player stops manufacturing T3 BC
Solution 1 - Another indy player goes 'woo i can get more business and make more money' and steps up his production to cover the gap.
Solution 2 - Ganker makes his own industrial alt and builds everything he needs himself

When will the people who keep suggesting this realise that this tactic simply will not work, at best there MIGHT be a slight price increase and at the very worst the ganker goes 'the market' and builds his equipment himself.

Snip, Please refrain from profanities - ISD Atomic Dove

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome