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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2021 - 2014-07-15 21:29:58 UTC
Professor Solus wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
You are advocating for EVE to turn into this:
Immersion breaking farming in ESO

Do you not see that?


You are setting up a false dichotomy. Do you not see that?

EVE and ESO can both be terrible for different reasons! Likewise, you can improve EVE without turning it into ESO.

Specify what exact changes to highsec mechanics you were advocating? Can't make a judgment with superlatives.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2022 - 2014-07-15 21:39:56 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kal Murmur wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
CSM minutes Dec 2012 page 104
"For reasons that are left as an exercise to the reader, Exhumers are now blowing up at historically low
rates."

We've heard nothing contrary since so it is assumed that the above is still true, even James and his band of rambunctious rapscallions are unlikely to have made a dent in the amount of barges and exhumers in use every day.


Seriously? 'We assume' that 2 year old data is still true because CCP haven't specifically said it isn't? Shocked
It's just as valid an assumption as you assuming that all the Charon kills you listed were down to suicide ganks.

In fact it's more valid because since the days of Hulkageddon V nobody has really gone to town with a mass culling of miners. CODE. do a good job of it, but they just don't have the resources or numbers to do it on that scale.

Also you should fix your quote Jenn aSide said that, not me.


I've been working on something with a few other guys that may just bring back the days of miners dying in the hundreds each day, which in theory will bring the cost of doing so down to almost zero. Keep you posted.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Paranoid Loyd
#2023 - 2014-07-15 21:42:25 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I've been working on something with a few other guys that may just bring back the days of miners dying in the hundreds each day, which in theory will bring the cost of doing so down to almost zero. Keep you posted.


Let me know if/how I can help.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2024 - 2014-07-15 21:43:59 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I've been working on something with a few other guys that may just bring back the days of miners dying in the hundreds each day, which in theory will bring the cost of doing so down to almost zero. Keep you posted.


Let me know if/how I can help.


And my axe.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2025 - 2014-07-15 21:46:26 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I've been working on something with a few other guys that may just bring back the days of miners dying in the hundreds each day, which in theory will bring the cost of doing so down to almost zero. Keep you posted.


Let me know if/how I can help.


And my axe.

Mine too, hopefully my Gallente alt will see some proper use.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2026 - 2014-07-15 21:51:53 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I've been working on something with a few other guys that may just bring back the days of miners dying in the hundreds each day, which in theory will bring the cost of doing so down to almost zero. Keep you posted.


Let me know if/how I can help.


And my axe.

Mine too, hopefully my Gallente alt will see some proper use.

Me too, on both sides of the issue. An alt who is decent in a Cat, and myself as a target.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2027 - 2014-07-15 22:11:19 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
That would be quite the interesting idea, honestly. Give the "PVE at any cost" people a little flag they can set. In exchange for setting the flag, everything about that account just stops. No ISK generation, no SP, no seeing other ships in space, no chat (or maybe just one huge global room), nothing. They can just get an arbitrary "score", rather than ISK or SP. They can use the "score" to buy pretend ammo, equipment, and stuff from NPC vendors. NPC sold items, of course, costing more than what they buy the items back for.

Then, the PVE at any cost get their wish, they can't interact with EVE in any way shape or form. Still pay sub fees, of course.

I really wonder just how long they'd last like that.

CCP has already implemented this. It's called SiSi.

That was basically my point, but since SiSi's usage numbers are almost always quite low, it's obvious that people don't really want what they claim to want. What they really want, is all of the benefits of interacting with the sandbox, with none of the costs, losses, or risks. I just wish they'd grow the satchel to come out and say it.

Come on whining bears, try it with me one time: "I am a risk averse miscreant, and want to alter this sandbox to the point where it's not even the same game anymore, just to suit me."

Now, that wasn't so hard, was it?
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#2028 - 2014-07-15 22:29:42 UTC
Remember, whoever has the last post, is right...
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#2029 - 2014-07-15 22:51:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:


There was a very strong trend in 2012, 2013, 2014 with each year showing huge growth (over a 50% increase) in both # of concord kills and # of charon losses. As for the wardec issue the data was compiled from the same source, unless there was some patch between 2012-2014 that would have increased the number of wardecs significantly it would be safe to assume the % lost to wardecs would remain constant throughout.

I think we did it guys this has to be 100! I'm proud of each and every one of you.


We already told you why what you just said is wrong. Many times.


Really? must have missed that post. All I ever saw in refute to this was:

"I personally haven't seen any change, therefore it's not true".
Or
"The boards weren't combined until 2012" - no problem just look at 2013 onward
Or
"Wardecs and other" - as mentioned this should remain consistent throughout the data sets.
Or
"We have to use cheaper ships right meow because nerfs" - between 2013-2014?

You know what never mind, we hit 100 the goal has been achieved, peace.


We moved from using one or two high alpha battleships to lots of high DPS small ships. The killboards also did not track concord kills unless they were posted by the ganker, which was rare, that is where the "zomg concord are killing more ships that must mean more people are being ganked!

This is wrong, we went from 5 gankers to 20-30 per kill. It would also require you to ignore the fact that CCP themselves have shown that barge ganking has never been lower and that there are near no ganking kills showing up to constitute out of control ganking.

Ganking today is nothing like in the past, not even close.


You're like a politician it's uncanny, you avoid answering the question while continuing to spew your meaningless and unrelated nonsense.

Here are the counter points,
2012, 2012, 2012 and 2003? I agree 2012 should be dropped from the analysis based on the lack of reliable killboard info alone. Now care to answer why ganking in 2014 is up 50% over 2013?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2030 - 2014-07-15 23:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Organic Lager wrote:
Now care to answer why ganking in 2014 is up 50% over 2013?


It's not, we just use 50% more ships to do it. I'm not sure how this concept could be made any easier for you to understand.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2031 - 2014-07-15 23:18:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
Now care to answer why ganking in 2014 is up 50% over 2013?


It's not, we just use 50% more ships to do it. I'm not sure how this concept could be made any easier for you to understand.
Crayon drawings and words of 2 syllables or less?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#2032 - 2014-07-15 23:31:15 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
Now care to answer why ganking in 2014 is up 50% over 2013?


It's not, we just use 50% more ships to do it. I'm not sure how this concept could be made any easier for you to understand.


Thanks for the real answer, as I see Jonah still wants to play the pigeon. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't that nerf bat hit you in 2012 with the insurance payout nerf?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2033 - 2014-07-15 23:35:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Organic Lager wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
Now care to answer why ganking in 2014 is up 50% over 2013?


It's not, we just use 50% more ships to do it. I'm not sure how this concept could be made any easier for you to understand.


Thanks for the real answer, as I see Jonah still wants to play the pigeon. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't that nerf bat hit you in 2012 with the insurance payout nerf?


It was a combination of things over the last 3 years. It forced us to use a larger quantity of cheaper ships to do the same things. As a result, a lot of the casual gankers just stopped ganking.

E: The level of organisation that goes in to career ganking these days is rather impressive. If it were as easy as our victims claim, then casual gankers wouldn't have died off.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2034 - 2014-07-15 23:47:32 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
Now care to answer why ganking in 2014 is up 50% over 2013?


It's not, we just use 50% more ships to do it. I'm not sure how this concept could be made any easier for you to understand.


Thanks for the real answer, as I see Jonah still wants to play the pigeon. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't that nerf bat hit you in 2012 with the insurance payout nerf?


I've only been following this thread for the last 15 pages so forgive me if this is out of context: The insurance payout removal was not an actual nerf to ganking, it did nothing to the mechanics behind ganking, it simply moved the isk won vs isk lost equilibrium.


Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2035 - 2014-07-15 23:51:48 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
Now care to answer why ganking in 2014 is up 50% over 2013?


It's not, we just use 50% more ships to do it. I'm not sure how this concept could be made any easier for you to understand.


Thanks for the real answer, as I see Jonah still wants to play the pigeon. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't that nerf bat hit you in 2012 with the insurance payout nerf?


I've only been following this thread for the last 15 pages so forgive me if this is out of context: The insurance payout removal was not an actual nerf to ganking, it did nothing to the mechanics behind ganking, it simply moved the isk won vs isk lost equilibrium.




It made ganking cost more, which was a nerf. I'm not saying it wasn't a needed nerf. Getting the cost of your suicide ship back was a stupid mechanic & needed to go, but it was still one of many ganking nerfs over the years, while miners have seen only buffs to their gameplay & still want more nerfs on gankers.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2036 - 2014-07-15 23:55:55 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:


It made ganking cost more, which was a nerf. I'm not saying it wasn't a needed nerf. Getting the cost of your suicide ship back was a stupid mechanic & needed to go, but it was still one of many ganking nerfs over the years, while miners have seen only buffs to their gameplay & still want more nerfs on gankers.


Yep, that's the problem I have with them too. It's never enough, and their agenda is clear. They will never stop until PvP is not permitted.

Their attitude is so poisonous that they honestly think non consensual PvP is, or should be, a bannable offense.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2037 - 2014-07-16 00:04:57 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
Now care to answer why ganking in 2014 is up 50% over 2013?


It's not, we just use 50% more ships to do it. I'm not sure how this concept could be made any easier for you to understand.


Thanks for the real answer, as I see Jonah still wants to play the pigeon.

this had already been explained, actually
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2038 - 2014-07-16 00:07:43 UTC
I could give you the exact reason why you're seeing a lot of freighters dying in the last 2 months aswell, but you're not going to like the answer.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2039 - 2014-07-16 00:08:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Organic Lager wrote:
... as I see Jonah still wants to play the pigeon ...
Nope, not playing at being a pigeon at all, just poking a little fun at your apparent failure to grasp the obvious.

Now that's over and done with lets get back to the subject at hand.

As above ganking has been nerfed numerous times in the past, while the people who don't like gankers have received buffs left right and centre, the last buff to ganking that I can remember was indirect and only a buff by virtue of making Catalysts the go to ship for suicide ganking on a budget. That was the Crucible expansion when Destroyers had the 25% RoF reduction removed.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2040 - 2014-07-16 00:14:05 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I could give you the exact reason why you're seeing a lot of freighters dying in the last 2 months aswell, but you're not going to like the answer.


Oh, come on, don't be a tease.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.