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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1961 - 2014-07-15 15:11:23 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:
This is why I find you guys so laughable, absolutely no-one is calling for the removal of 'mass destruction' in Eve. All some people are asking for is that you carry out the majority of your mass destruction in parts of the game where it doesn't drive away new players.
Excellent. Then nothing actually needs to change.

Quote:
Incidentally, you appear to want it both ways. Either suicide ganking is 'laughably rare' or it constitutes 'mass destruction' on a level that would make Eve 'instantly collapse' were it removed. Well, which is it?
No-one said that it constitutes mass destruction.

Quote:
You should really slow down, if you make many more comments as utterly ridiculous as this, we're going to end up passing some form of idiot event horizon
So you agree then, since you have to jump straight for the personal attack. Goodie.

Quote:
So you can't damage new players?
…which, of course, wasn't what I said.

Quote:
Ganking isn't laughably rare, which is why CODE keep posting huge lists of all the ganks they're carrying out.
Ganking is laughably rare, as demonstrated by the minute number of kills even a supposed mass-murdering entity as CODE can produce. It is also demonstrated by how much attention this one group generates — if ganking was commonplace, they'd be a single player in the vast field of gankers and their activities would just be noise. Instead, their activities are such a shocking departure from the norm of highsec life that people keep coming to the forums to complain about what would otherwise be an every-day event. Your attempt to provide data to show otherwise by wilfully throwing any kind of judgement out of the window just demonstrated how desperate you are to invent a problem that simply does not exist.

Oh, and please, read what I write rather than invent more laughable nonsense: the only one telling everyone I'm clever is you. I suppose I should thank you for that rather than correct you, but I'd prefer that you at least be honest in your argumentation.
Hannibal Crusoe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1962 - 2014-07-15 15:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannibal Crusoe
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kal Murmur wrote:


This stuff is just nonsense. The idea that Eve would collapse without suicide ganking in high sec is laughable in the extreme. Despite the damage suicide ganking can do to new players, in terms of ships destroyed it's nothing compared to a decent null war.


Side note, this is why people like this get pwned on the forums all day every day by the Tippias and Kaarouses (Tippii and Kaarousii?) of the forum. Kaarous said DESTRUCTION, ganking is a form of destruction and it's existence is demonstrably good for the EVE economy.

Ganking also creates an air of danger and uncertainty, which are also great qualities to have in a sandbox game. I've spent 7 years learning how to not get ganked, how to avoid scams and danger. For a sandbox PVE player (like me), that's content in the same way that this game taught me as a child how not to get eaten by crocodiles.

I will NEVER understand the people so 'victimish' and weak that they can't even deal with a small amount of danger in a video game. If ganking scares you, sleeping without a night light must be cause for some very wet bedsheets.......



This
The HS danger has resulted in me adding an account.

Ride a white mare in the footsteps of dawn
Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#1963 - 2014-07-15 15:31:38 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
today is my birthday

you look like a monkey, and you smell like one, too.
I don't see any resemblance. What?

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1964 - 2014-07-15 15:34:29 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:
The other day we went over the zkillboard data which also showed a huge rise in suicide ganking, and it was brushed off as 'bad historical data'.

Can you share this data? So far it's been a unicorn that people keep referring to.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Kal Murmur
Lazortits
#1965 - 2014-07-15 15:46:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
No-one said that it constitutes mass destruction.


Ah so when you started talking about how mass destruction is an essential cornerstone of the game, that was just a completely irrelevant topic you just happened to mention in passing?

Quote:
…which, of course, wasn't what I said.


Except that you did..

Tippia wrote:
The damage suicide ganking can do to new players is very close to zero for one simple reason: they're new players. By virtue of being new, no damage dealt to them can be very high.


..but moving on..

Quote:
Ganking is laughably rare, as demonstrated by the minute number of kills even a supposed mass-murdering entity as CODE can produce. It is also demonstrated by how much attention this one group generates — if ganking was commonplace, they'd be a single player in the vast field of gankers and their activities would just be noise. Instead, their activities are such a shocking departure from the norm of highsec life that people keep coming to the forums to complain about what would otherwise be an every-day event.


So it's laughably rare yet at the same time such a 'shocking departure from the norm of highsec life' that everyone's up in arms about it? Can you explain how those two statements fit together in any way please?
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#1966 - 2014-07-15 15:46:34 UTC
Happy birthday to the Lady. As birthday present I have removed a troll post. \o/

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1967 - 2014-07-15 15:53:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Sibyyl wrote:
Kal Murmur wrote:
The other day we went over the zkillboard data which also showed a huge rise in suicide ganking, and it was brushed off as 'bad historical data'.

Can you share this data? So far it's been a unicorn that people keep referring to.

That'll be the data where Kal counted the number of Charons killed in June 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 by referring to zkillboard, all the while ignoring or ignorant of the fact that the zkill and evekill boards weren't integrated until 2012, without taking the time to remove any kills that were down to wardecs/ didn't involve Concord intervention; thus not suicide ganks.

Kal Murmur wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ganking is laughably rare, as demonstrated by the minute number of kills even a supposed mass-murdering entity as CODE can produce. It is also demonstrated by how much attention this one group generates — if ganking was commonplace, they'd be a single player in the vast field of gankers and their activities would just be noise. Instead, their activities are such a shocking departure from the norm of highsec life that people keep coming to the forums to complain about what would otherwise be an every-day event.


So it's laughably rare yet at the same time such a 'shocking departure from the norm of highsec life' that everyone's up in arms about it? Can you explain how those two statements fit together in any way please?

Something that is rare is by definition not the norm, ergo it's a departure from the norm Roll

Rare : (Of an event, situation, or condition) not occurring very often
Norm : (the norm) Something that is usual, typical, or standard
L2English


Happy Birthday Lady A

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1968 - 2014-07-15 15:56:49 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:


So it's laughably rare yet at the same time such a 'shocking departure from the norm of highsec life' that everyone's up in arms about it? Can you explain how those two statements fit together in any way please?



Sadly, this is the part of the show where someone in the audience has to point out that "laughably rare" and "shocking departure from the norm" go together quite nicely...

As in:

"Bob showing up for work on time was so laughably rare that when he did it was a shocking departure from the norm."


sorry...

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1969 - 2014-07-15 15:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Kal Murmur wrote:
Ah so when you started talking about how mass destruction is an essential cornerstone of the game, that was just a completely irrelevant topic you just happened to mention in passing?
No, it was a continuation of what was previously said. You should probably take a bit more care in reading the posts you respond to.

Quote:
Except that you did.
Nope, as the quote you provide amply demonstrates.

Quote:
So it's laughably rare yet at the same time such a 'shocking departure from the norm of highsec life' that everyone's up in arms about it? Can you explain how those two statements fit together in any way please?

What's strange about it? Something that is commonplace is not a shocking departure from the norm. In fact, it pretty much has to be rare to be a shocking departure. Come on, this isn't rocket surgery… Ugh

And to continue on that particular thread and to provide you with an actual (apparent) contradiction: if ganking was more common-place, it would probably make it even harder for the gankers to find victims…
Kal Murmur
Lazortits
#1970 - 2014-07-15 16:00:10 UTC
Hiply Rustic wrote:
Kal Murmur wrote:


So it's laughably rare yet at the same time such a 'shocking departure from the norm of highsec life' that everyone's up in arms about it? Can you explain how those two statements fit together in any way please?



Sadly, this is the part of the show where someone in the audience has to point out that "laughably rare" and "shocking departure from the norm" go together quite nicely...

As in:

"Bob showing up for work on time was so laughably rare that when he did it was a shocking departure from the norm."


sorry...


This would certainly explain events like this very 99 page thread where everyone's complaining about how rare suicide ganking is. Oh wait..
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1971 - 2014-07-15 16:02:30 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:
This would certainly explain events like this very 99 page thread where everyone's complaining about how rare suicide ganking is.

It definitely would, but not in either of the sarcastic senses you're hoping for.
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#1972 - 2014-07-15 16:03:14 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:
Hiply Rustic wrote:
Kal Murmur wrote:


So it's laughably rare yet at the same time such a 'shocking departure from the norm of highsec life' that everyone's up in arms about it? Can you explain how those two statements fit together in any way please?



Sadly, this is the part of the show where someone in the audience has to point out that "laughably rare" and "shocking departure from the norm" go together quite nicely...

As in:

"Bob showing up for work on time was so laughably rare that when he did it was a shocking departure from the norm."


sorry...


This would certainly explain events like this very 99 page thread where everyone's complaining about how rare suicide ganking is. Oh wait..


Yeah, 15 people on either side repeating the same arguments in different words for 99 pages is clearly indicative for how rare or often the subject of discussion is.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1973 - 2014-07-15 16:11:41 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:

This would certainly explain events like this very 99 page thread where everyone's complaining about how rare suicide ganking is. Oh wait..

Roughly 85 of these 99 pages are little more than two and three parties tossing "no u!" with some extra words thrown around it back and forth. What's your point?

Amusingly enough, since it's such a huge problem for the people getting ganked, I would expect a higher percentage of them to be wailing in this thread.

Nothing is so amusing (or pathetic) as those who get offended on the behalf of another.
Kal Murmur
Lazortits
#1974 - 2014-07-15 16:16:45 UTC
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:
Yeah, 15 people on either side repeating the same arguments in different words for 99 pages is clearly indicative for how rare or often the subject of discussion is.


Well every time we've tried to pull actual data, it's just dismissed out of hand despite each set showing exactly the same trend. I guess that's what happens when a handful of suicide gankers sense their favourite pastime might be at risk as a result of their own reckless actions.

I'm pretty bored now, so I'll just leave you with the words of James 315 in his latest post on BumpMining..

James 315 wrote:
In all, 40 freighters and 3 jump freighters were terminated during the week covered by the Kills of the Week post. Adding kills from the last two days, the number rises to 59 freighters and 4 jump freighters.

To put the slaughter into perspective, consider the first Burn Jita event in 2012. The combined forces of the CFC and HBC, somewhere around 40,000 characters, were called upon to participate. Thousands showed up, including many players in leadership positions. It was publicized throughout EVE, and CCP was forced to add a warning to the splash screen for everyone logging into the game. Burn Jita was covered by video game media, not just EVE media. During Burn Jita, 53 freighters and 12 jump freighters were killed. That's more isk damage than was inflicted by the New Order's activities in Uedama--but actually not that far off. Our gankers are becoming remarkably efficient killing machines.


Yes you are guys, and we all know what happens when any predator becomes too good at killing..
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1975 - 2014-07-15 16:22:34 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:
Hiply Rustic wrote:
Kal Murmur wrote:


So it's laughably rare yet at the same time such a 'shocking departure from the norm of highsec life' that everyone's up in arms about it? Can you explain how those two statements fit together in any way please?



Sadly, this is the part of the show where someone in the audience has to point out that "laughably rare" and "shocking departure from the norm" go together quite nicely...

As in:

"Bob showing up for work on time was so laughably rare that when he did it was a shocking departure from the norm."


sorry...


This would certainly explain events like this very 99 page thread where everyone's complaining about how rare suicide ganking is. Oh wait..


99 page threadnaught about how rare suicide ganking is or is not =/= a discussion about whether or not two phrases work together or do not work together. One of those discussions you have some legitimate points to make in. The other...in this specific case...not so much.

Seriously, let this one go and get back to the discussion you were having. Something which is a shocking departure from the norm is rare, by definition. Let it go.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1976 - 2014-07-15 16:26:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kal Murmur wrote:
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:
Yeah, 15 people on either side repeating the same arguments in different words for 99 pages is clearly indicative for how rare or often the subject of discussion is.


Well every time we've tried to pull actual data, it's just dismissed out of hand despite each set showing exactly the same trend. I guess that's what happens when a handful of suicide gankers sense their favourite pastime might be at risk as a result of their own reckless actions.
That's because you keep presenting erroneous data. When you take the time to remove kills that didn't involve Concord, and don't use a killboard where 2 out of the 5 years worth of data are incomplete then maybe it won't be dismissed.

Quote:
I'm pretty bored now, so I'll just leave you with the words of James 315 in his latest post on BumpMining..

James 315 wrote:
In all, 40 freighters and 3 jump freighters were terminated during the week covered by the Kills of the Week post. Adding kills from the last two days, the number rises to 59 freighters and 4 jump freighters.

To put the slaughter into perspective, consider the first Burn Jita event in 2012. The combined forces of the CFC and HBC, somewhere around 40,000 characters, were called upon to participate. Thousands showed up, including many players in leadership positions. It was publicized throughout EVE, and CCP was forced to add a warning to the splash screen for everyone logging into the game. Burn Jita was covered by video game media, not just EVE media. During Burn Jita, 53 freighters and 12 jump freighters were killed. That's more isk damage than was inflicted by the New Order's activities in Uedama--but actually not that far off. Our gankers are becoming remarkably efficient killing machines.


Yes you are guys, and we all know what happens when any predator becomes too good at killing..
So James and his merry band of miscreants managed to kill 59 freighters and 4 jump freighters in a week, how many freighters and jump freighters travelled, in the same week, through the systems they work in and didn't get molested?

It's more than 59 and 4 that's for sure, the ones that go unmolested probably number in the thousands.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1977 - 2014-07-15 16:34:47 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:
Well every time we've tried to pull actual data, it's just dismissed out of hand
The data was not dismissed. Your interpretation of it was, mainly because it wasn't much of an interpretation at all — just ”higher = more”.

Quote:
Yes you are guys, and we all know what happens when any predator becomes too good at killing..

He becomes happy and content and doesn't have to bluster quite so much to make it seem like his catch is anything spectacular.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#1978 - 2014-07-15 16:43:51 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
Kal Murmur wrote:
The other day we went over the zkillboard data which also showed a huge rise in suicide ganking, and it was brushed off as 'bad historical data'.

Can you share this data? So far it's been a unicorn that people keep referring to.

That'll be the data where Kal counted the number of Charons killed in June 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 by referring to zkillboard, all the while ignoring or ignorant of the fact that the zkill and evekill boards weren't integrated until 2012, without taking the time to remove any kills that were down to wardecs/ didn't involve Concord intervention; thus not suicide ganks.


There was a very strong trend in 2012, 2013, 2014 with each year showing huge growth (over a 50% increase) in both # of concord kills and # of charon losses. As for the wardec issue the data was compiled from the same source, unless there was some patch between 2012-2014 that would have increased the number of wardecs significantly it would be safe to assume the % lost to wardecs would remain constant throughout.

I think we did it guys this has to be 100! I'm proud of each and every one of you.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1979 - 2014-07-15 16:45:38 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:
Hiply Rustic wrote:
Kal Murmur wrote:


So it's laughably rare yet at the same time such a 'shocking departure from the norm of highsec life' that everyone's up in arms about it? Can you explain how those two statements fit together in any way please?



Sadly, this is the part of the show where someone in the audience has to point out that "laughably rare" and "shocking departure from the norm" go together quite nicely...

As in:

"Bob showing up for work on time was so laughably rare that when he did it was a shocking departure from the norm."


sorry...


This would certainly explain events like this very 99 page thread where everyone's complaining about how rare suicide ganking is. Oh wait..


You mean this 99 page thread that has 314 different posters in a game of more than 400,000 active accounts


http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/352595-1

You do understand that the size of a forum thread in a forum most EVE players don't use doesn't mean jack s$%^t right?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#1980 - 2014-07-15 16:53:49 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
On an unrelated note, today is my birthday, and I'm posting to the EVE-O forums. How sad is dat?


Happy birthday! I ate all your cake but you wouldn't expect any less of an Eve player. Big smile

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff