These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1761 - 2014-07-11 16:44:19 UTC
Grinder2210 wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.




Unless your me .... Than you have your home made into a rookie system ...... And told that even with a employment history going back years well um that player my still be a rookie ..........


No love for the CanFliper in eve What?


Can flipping is dead. What happened to can flipping is what bears want to do to all forms of pvp in high sec that can impact them.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1762 - 2014-07-11 16:46:02 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Puppy Eating wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:


Using scouts is a bit difficult if you have only one character, hiring bodyguards may make the trip not cost effective.




If you have made it to flying a Freighter without making friends. Then you should not be playing MMO's


Implying friends exist in EVE.

A 'friend' is just someone you haven't betrayed yet

See? Friends do exist in eve! Your definition works!

baltec1 wrote:
Its funny how I have total trust with other goons when moving my stuff from deployment to deployment yet you more civilised people have nobody you can trust.

Hm, maybe I should join goons then. You guys require a minor security deposit, correct?

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#1763 - 2014-07-11 16:46:18 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Can flipping is dead. What happened to can flipping is what bears want to do to all forms of pvp in high sec that can impact them.


Quoted for emphasis.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Raposao1978
#1764 - 2014-07-11 17:11:49 UTC
Do not undock in anything you can not afford to lose is the second rule of EVE, the first rule is no place in New Eden is truly safe.


Once you get a solid understanding of those two rules most of your "problems" will go away.

Is it a pain in the behind to get suicide ganked ....... yes, is it an illegal or exploit type of action by another player ....... no.

Some people like to blow up other people all day every day.

Perhaps if you flew with a squadron of support ships, and they could fight off your attackers you would not have a complaint ..... wait, hold on, you can do that!!!!!

There are solutions for suicide ganking that are available for all players right now!


Join a corp that has enough members to escort freighters. Fit your ship to be resistant to gank attacks instead of maxing out it's cargo capacity. Do not fly afk. Get the implants that makes your ship agile and get to warp as swiftly as possible. Get the fittings that make your ship difficult to scramble. Train your pilot to not be an easy target. Use a scout to look into a system before you jump into it. You have the option of a war dec, a good thing when you know your war targets are going to be flying for the most part in destroyers and smaller ships most of the time. If you engage them near any station or gate guns you'll get support in dps against them. Then there is my personal favorite, train an alt to join the suicide ganking corp and awox the heck out of them or steal the goodies they have laying around for ship replacement, then do it again an again until they are afraid of new members.

If hauling cargo becomes too dangerous contract it out to others who are better ready to accept the risk of moving stuff around New Eden.

This is for the most part a game about space ship combat, accept that. Try to skill up enough, and get enough player support to be as resistant to losing in the space ship combat that will eventually occur as possible.

CCP should not nerf suicide ganking out of the game, in my personal opinion.

EVE is a world wide game, you get to interact with all types of players and play styles, a lot of those interactions are not positive, so we have to deal with it. Remember it's only a game an if you are getting really really angry then that means it's a good game because you have become immersed in the game play. Train to get better, train to get even, train to get revenge. HTFU.

Self destruct so i can have your salvage ..... i'll get it anyway ..... and this saves us both some time!
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1765 - 2014-07-11 17:12:16 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Kagura Nikon wrote:
You know very well that it is not so simple. But when you can afford to suicide gank any battleship with 80m on its modules, then its borderline dumb.

Yes there is an exponentail cost that is irrelevant because exactly the catalysis is absurd. I know that nerfign the destroyers is a problem because the ship has an INTENDED role (that is nto suicide ganking) that shoudl not be attacked. No one said the solution would be easy. I am just pointing that Catalysis make all other forms of engagement in high sec look so non efficient that soudns really dumb.

It very well is that simple. We will continue to use the highest dps/isk/sp ship for ganking. EHP buffs have already made alpha ganks not viable in most cases which is why we use dps ships now. As for ganking battleships. Unless the battleship is faction/deadspace fit t2 catalysts LOSE money. Assuming a catalyst ouputs around 10k damage before concord arrives (it actually ranges from 6K-14K depending on a few different factors, most outside of our control)), and a price tage of 10m on a t2 catalyst (assuming we build them and the modules ourselves) it will take between eight and twenty catalysts to destroy a battleship (assuming 80-200k ehp). Even at 8 catalysts lost, the battleship has to be carrying over 160m in droppable modules (keep in mind the 50% drop rate) before we will average breaking even, let alone making a profit.

The numbers get significantly worse if you move to 1.0 systems, or don't pre-pull, or god forbid gank a buffer tanked ship. You also haven't taken into account the difficulty of pulling together 20+ person fleets, and the fact that the t2 catalyst is not the most cost effective gank ship (I'm pretty sure that honor would go to the velator). Its used as a balance between cost, dps, and number or ships required.

EDIT: The numbers are better if you can consistently scoop blue loot, but I also didn't include other players white knighting or stealing loot.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1766 - 2014-07-11 17:26:24 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
You also haven't taken into account the difficulty of pulling together 20+ person fleets


The general consensus of opinion amongst the "suicide ganking is OP/bad/exploitive/etc" crowd is that putting together a 20+ person fleet is trivial. To them fleets, and friends, are OP which is why they won't use either Roll

It must be true, a carebear said it Evil

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jedo Dre
Lignum Holdings Ltd.
#1767 - 2014-07-11 17:27:27 UTC
Just lost the last 2 or 3 months worth of work to a pirate attack.
Done with this game.
Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1768 - 2014-07-11 17:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Hatfield
Jedo Dre wrote:
Just lost the last 2 or 3 months worth of work to a pirate attack.
Done with this game.
I would greatly appreciate any donation of your unneeded stuff.

Also wrong thread, you appear to live in lowsec and nullsec, suicide ganking doesn't happen there.

If the Cormorant was the sum total of 3 months work you've been doing something very wrong, also are you going for the Guinness World Record for most pods lost?

I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.
Iain Cariaba
#1769 - 2014-07-11 17:32:12 UTC
Raposao1978 wrote:
There are solutions for suicide ganking that are available for all players right now!

They have been told this over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. They don't want to hear it. They don't want to actually expend any effort or even think about a slight reduction in their isk/hr ratio. What they want is for CCP to fix all their problems for them. Unfortunatly, CCP has a history of caving and giving the bears what they keep crying for. Come on, it wasn't even three days after the latest ganking nerf before the bears started crying for more nerfs. CCP simply needs to leave things where they're at in the ganking balance cause there is actual balance now.

For those who want to argue that I think it's balanced, here's how you prove me wrong:
Show me that the ratio of freighters ganked to freighters in space during a day is high.
Show me that the ganked freighters took steps to make themselves a less juicy target.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1770 - 2014-07-11 17:32:23 UTC
Jedo Dre wrote:
Just lost the last 2 or 3 months worth of work to a pirate attack.
Done with this game.


You were done with the game when you decided to put all those eggs in one easily breakable basket. Of course it's always just easier to blame others (or the game) isn't it?
Iain Cariaba
#1771 - 2014-07-11 17:40:49 UTC
Jedo Dre wrote:
Just lost the last 2 or 3 months worth of work to a pirate attack.
Done with this game.

I can haz ur stuff?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1772 - 2014-07-11 17:43:09 UTC
Jedo Dre wrote:
Just lost the last 2 or 3 months worth of work to a pirate attack.
Done with this game.


So.... everything you started the game with?

Cos this character is barely 3 months old

Also

"Hobbies include painting, exploration and making pirate scum in null space waste their expensive ammo on my worthless pod with my starter lvl clone."

aka: lel

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1773 - 2014-07-11 17:47:47 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Jedo Dre wrote:
Just lost the last 2 or 3 months worth of work to a pirate attack.
Done with this game.

I can haz ur stuff?
I already called dibs on his stuff P. Ask nicely and I may split it with you.

I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.
Soylent Jade
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1774 - 2014-07-11 17:48:23 UTC
Jedo Dre wrote:
Just lost the last 2 or 3 months worth of work to a pirate attack.
Done with this game.


If that fail fit Cormorant is 2-3 months worth of work, I submit you were never really playing in the first place, and what does that have to do with freighter ganks in hisec?

That loss was a month ago, yet you're still here...

Making hisec better...one Catalyst at a time

minerbumping.com
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1775 - 2014-07-11 17:48:51 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Also

"Hobbies include painting, exploration and making pirate scum in null space waste their expensive ammo on my worthless pod with my starter lvl clone."

didn't want those thirty-two pods anyway
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1776 - 2014-07-11 17:58:05 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Also

"Hobbies include painting, exploration and making pirate scum in null space waste their expensive ammo on my worthless pod with my starter lvl clone."

didn't want those thirty-two pods anyway

You'd think that losing a pod, on average, every 3 days, would make him realise that

  1. He's doing something very very wrong
  2. People will shoot at him, because they can
  3. WoW or any other MMO that isn't Eve is probably more to his taste, and abilities.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1777 - 2014-07-11 17:58:56 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Also

"Hobbies include painting, exploration and making pirate scum in null space waste their expensive ammo on my worthless pod with my starter lvl clone."

didn't want those thirty-two pods anyway

You'd think that losing a pod, on average, every 3 days, would make him realise that

  1. He's doing something very very wrong
  2. People will shoot at him, because they can
  3. WoW or any other MMO that isn't Eve is probably more to his taste, and abilities.


The painting part made me think that he was probably spending a lot of his time AFK anyway

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1778 - 2014-07-11 17:59:45 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
You know very well that it is not so simple. But when you can afford to suicide gank any battleship with 80m on its modules, then its borderline dumb.

Yes there is an exponentail cost that is irrelevant because exactly the catalysis is absurd. I know that nerfign the destroyers is a problem because the ship has an INTENDED role (that is nto suicide ganking) that shoudl not be attacked. No one said the solution would be easy. I am just pointing that Catalysis make all other forms of engagement in high sec look so non efficient that soudns really dumb.

It very well is that simple. We will continue to use the highest dps/isk/sp ship for ganking. EHP buffs have already made alpha ganks not viable in most cases which is why we use dps ships now. As for ganking battleships. Unless the battleship is faction/deadspace fit t2 catalysts LOSE money. Assuming a catalyst ouputs around 10k damage before concord arrives (it actually ranges from 6K-14K depending on a few different factors, most outside of our control)), and a price tage of 10m on a t2 catalyst (assuming we build them and the modules ourselves) it will take between eight and twenty catalysts to destroy a battleship (assuming 80-200k ehp). Even at 8 catalysts lost, the battleship has to be carrying over 160m in droppable modules (keep in mind the 50% drop rate) before we will average breaking even, let alone making a profit.

The numbers get significantly worse if you move to 1.0 systems, or don't pre-pull, or god forbid gank a buffer tanked ship. You also haven't taken into account the difficulty of pulling together 20+ person fleets, and the fact that the t2 catalyst is not the most cost effective gank ship (I'm pretty sure that honor would go to the velator). Its used as a balance between cost, dps, and number or ships required.

EDIT: The numbers are better if you can consistently scoop blue loot, but I also didn't include other players white knighting or stealing loot.


Good try. But knowing where you do the ganking, in systems (specially some of the most lucrative), where the missioners will nto be tanking against Thermal.. you are facing 50K EHP on most marauders.


I jsut wish battleships would have a tad more EHP so that would not be a problem.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1779 - 2014-07-11 18:19:17 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Good try. But knowing where you do the ganking, in systems (specially some of the most lucrative), where the missioners will nto be tanking against Thermal.. you are facing 50K EHP on most marauders.


I jsut wish battleships would have a tad more EHP so that would not be a problem.

what, mission runners shouldn't have to fit thermal hardeners themselves? do you want me to fit a thermal hardener for them? do you want ccp to breastfeed them, too?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1780 - 2014-07-11 18:27:03 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Good try. But knowing where you do the ganking, in systems (specially some of the most lucrative), where the missioners will nto be tanking against Thermal.. you are facing 50K EHP on most marauders.


I jsut wish battleships would have a tad more EHP so that would not be a problem.
If you're missioning in an area where you know suicide gankers are plying their particular trade in mayhem, fit a thermal tank mod......

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack