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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1741 - 2014-07-11 10:44:06 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I am not saying it shoudl nto exist. I jsut think that destroyers are TOOOO effective on taht role. Make the game look even more stupid. If it was not for destroyers at least I could pretend that the gankers are being penalized when concord appears :P

So what dps/cost would be fair? Should gankers have to spend 20m for 700dps? 50m? 100m? 200m? There is already a exponential progression on isk/dps. A talos is ten times the cost of a t2 catalyst with only a little over twice the dps. A brutix is seven times the cost of a t2 catalyst with a little over 1.5 times the dps. Any nerf to destroyers hurts new players far more than it hurts suicide gankers. We have the money and skills to move up to cruisers, new players do not.



You know very well that it is not so simple. But when you can afford to suicide gank any battleship with 80m on its modules, then its borderline dumb.

Yes there is an exponentail cost that is irrelevant because exactly the catalysis is absurd. I know that nerfign the destroyers is a problem because the ship has an INTENDED role (that is nto suicide ganking) that shoudl not be attacked. No one said the solution would be easy. I am just pointing that Catalysis make all other forms of engagement in high sec look so non efficient that soudns really dumb.

Nerf catalysts then. We'll just gank in vexors.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#1742 - 2014-07-11 10:48:54 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nerf catalysts then. We'll just gank in vexors.



Or Thrashers, or Thoraxes or Tornadoes or Taloses or...

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1743 - 2014-07-11 11:56:03 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:



You know very well that it is not so simple. But when you can afford to suicide gank any battleship with 80m on its modules, then its borderline dumb.



What's borderline dumb is getting ganked in a battleship with any amount of mods on, because if you're in a battleship, then you've been playing the game long enough to learn how to use one. That, or you were borderline dumb, bought a toon already skilled for one and a battleship was your first foray into EVE.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1744 - 2014-07-11 12:09:09 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:



You know very well that it is not so simple. But when you can afford to suicide gank any battleship with 80m on its modules, then its borderline dumb.



What's borderline dumb is getting ganked in a battleship with any amount of mods on, because if you're in a battleship, then you've been playing the game long enough to learn how to use one. That, or you were borderline dumb, bought a toon already skilled for one and a battleship was your first foray into EVE.


Again, its funny how my Megathron can take the firepower of several hundred other ships in fleet fights yet they whine that they cannot tank vs 20 destroyers.
Soylent Jade
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1745 - 2014-07-11 12:28:50 UTC
Henry Montclaire wrote:
We like conflict right?

Make anyone with a -10 sec status automatically flagged a suspect and able to be engaged by anyone without CONCORD interference.

Also, someone on one of the first pages said something about using a smartbombing battleship to clear suicide gankers but I'm fairly certain (correct me if I'm wrong) that smartbombs cannot be used in high sec.


WOW Seriously? Anyone -5 or below *can* be freely engaged without CONCORD response. Carebears by definition are afraid to shoot at us. Occasionally some white knights shoot at us, but all they generally accomplish is whoring in on CONCORD killmails and getting themselves some easy bounty money.

Smartbombs *can* be used in highsec, but you have to set your safety to red. Smartbombs would probably be a bad idea because unless you somehow are in a duel with the AFK freighter, you're going to get yourself CONCORDed. You may also get a white knight or two with your smartbombs, which would add to the hilarity. Plus, we usually have a neutral close enough to the target that you'll hit them, and we'll get killrights on you...are you willing to be extra paranoid for 30 days to save some ungrateful freighter pilot that won't even know you saved them? We may even gank your battleship instead, or at least bump it away from the target.

Making hisec better...one Catalyst at a time

minerbumping.com
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1746 - 2014-07-11 12:38:29 UTC
Henry Montclaire wrote:
We like conflict right?

Make anyone with a -10 sec status automatically flagged a suspect and able to be engaged by anyone without CONCORD interference.

Also, someone on one of the first pages said something about using a smartbombing battleship to clear suicide gankers but I'm fairly certain (correct me if I'm wrong) that smartbombs cannot be used in high sec.


I hope your trolling otherwise you are in the right alliance.

-5 and below can be freely engaged without concord intervention. The problem people seem to have is the effort that comes with it.

They want that quick win button since anything worth fighting for should have a I win button right?

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#1747 - 2014-07-11 12:49:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Christina Project
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Henry Montclaire wrote:
We like conflict right?

Make anyone with a -10 sec status automatically flagged a suspect and able to be engaged by anyone without CONCORD interference.

Also, someone on one of the first pages said something about using a smartbombing battleship to clear suicide gankers but I'm fairly certain (correct me if I'm wrong) that smartbombs cannot be used in high sec.


I hope your trolling otherwise you are in the right alliance.

-5 and below can be freely engaged without concord intervention. The problem people seem to have is the effort that comes with it.

They want that quick win button since anything worth fighting for should have a I win button right?

That guy must be a troll... or, well, typical highsec citizen.

You are half right. It's not only effort. It's alao too much ego.
Too many people really hate gankers. For them it's about the ego and nothing more.
They don't care for a cause at all, they only care about their selfish bullshit,
pretending to achieving something by whoring on lossmails or killing pods
without actually helping anyone.

Then there are all those idiots who are clueless beyond measurement but believe
they can talk down on me because I am -10, just spreading more hate and showing
again that people care only about themselves than about the cause.

Then there's this complete lack of organization ...
... but the worst part are the sick carebears.

Like this Leo who calls gankers sociopaths in his bio. A coward who stays silent
until there's an opportunity to rabble hatred.

People are doing anything to ruin this. 200+ people in the channel,
only a handfull ever speak, unless the trolls and assholes come out.

The anti-ganking channel is as much crap as all the others.
Only gank-intel has any sense and actually a reason to exist.

It's not lazyness... these people simply don't cut it.
No matter what angle I looked at it.

They're like accountants trying to be lion tambers.

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
Mrs Epeen
Doomheim
#1748 - 2014-07-11 14:10:31 UTC
Christina Project wrote:
They're like accountants trying to be lion tambers.
W(here)TF did you learn how to spell?

Your argument is invalid.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1749 - 2014-07-11 14:11:41 UTC
Mrs Epeen wrote:
Christina Project wrote:
They're like accountants trying to be lion tambers.
W(here)TF did you learn how to spell?

Your argument is invalid.


You never tambed a lion?

A tambed lioness is called a Tambourine, btw

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1750 - 2014-07-11 14:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I know that nerfign the destroyers is a problem because the ship has an INTENDED role (that is nto suicide ganking) that shoudl not be attacked.
Let me guess, a destroyer should be limited to the role specified for it by CCP, as an anti frigate platform? Short answer nope.

It's a sandbox, people can use the ships, tools and mechanics in any way they see fit as long as they remain within the rules, which is what makes it interesting....

Mrs Epeen wrote:
Christina Project wrote:
They're like accountants trying to be lion tambers.
W(here)TF did you learn how to spell?

Your argument is invalid.
Not everybody has English as a first language, IIRC the person behind the "Project Sisters" is one of them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#1751 - 2014-07-11 14:50:17 UTC
Thanks Jonah,
but speaking with worthless, hating "people" really isn't worth the time.

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#1752 - 2014-07-11 15:03:19 UTC
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
GM Lelouch wrote:

One final clarification: Alt recycling is defined as the act of using a disposable character/account to perform actions which carry negative consequences within the game and then recycling (biomassing) the character to bypass said consequences and starting all over again with a new character.

1. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then farming up security status once it drops too low? This is totally okay with us.
2. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then deleting the character and replacing it with a new one once security status drops too low? This is not okay.


I am a little confused.
Of what benefit is deleting the character with the low status (but with PvP skills) when you have to make a completely new character to replace him?
Wouldn't the loss of a skilled character be a hindrance?

I have done something like that with my mining characters. I gave a brand new character the isk and other assets owned by an established character (this is the established one), then retired the established character to the forum.
I have given new characters the assets of more established characters before biomassing the older characters, tho. I have even stated multiple times in the forum I had done this and no one raised any alarms about 'recycling'.

Wouldn't the loss of skills be considered a problem for PvP?
My confusion is basically because I avoid PvP, I admit.


You will often see posts on various boards on the official forum stating that there is no negative impact for suicide gankers. In actual fact this is not the case as correcting a large amount of negative sec status is not as easy as it may appear.
1) Farming the required tags takes time and is not without risk.
2) Buying the security tags from others is not cheap.
3) Killing rats in low or null takes time and again is not without risk.
Training up a Catalyst pilot, depending on whether you wish to fly T1 or T2 fittings, does not potentially take that long to do if you have available skill time training. So you can see where a capsuleer may consider deleting an alt and starting a new one up from scratch.

Of course if were able to target the fools who overfill their haulers and turn them into loot piñatas then it may be much easier to buy the security tags. It depends on who you are suicide ganking. Blink
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1753 - 2014-07-11 15:09:55 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
DB Tank wrote:

Wars should have a meaning why there was a war dec in the first place rather than just to get a kill


No, they should not. This is a sandbox game, which means that "because I can" is a good enough answer, let alone "to get kills".

yeah, and the lack of mechanical meaning allows for players to come up with their own reasons, such as "because i'm the elected ruler of all highsec". that's what emergent gameplay is.
Arkady Romanov wrote:
The first kill of our Burn Jita events is done using 100+ noobships.

sounds like noobships need a nerf
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#1754 - 2014-07-11 15:14:21 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:

Training up a Catalyst pilot, depending on whether you wish to fly T1 or T2 fittings, does not potentially take that long to do if you have available skill time training. So you can see where a capsuleer may consider deleting an alt and starting a new one up from scratch.



Disposable alts, to get around the negative impact of suicide ganking. Isn't that a ban able offense?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1755 - 2014-07-11 15:18:19 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:

Training up a Catalyst pilot, depending on whether you wish to fly T1 or T2 fittings, does not potentially take that long to do if you have available skill time training. So you can see where a capsuleer may consider deleting an alt and starting a new one up from scratch.



Disposable alts, to get around the negative impact of suicide ganking. Isn't that a ban able offense?

read what bethan's quoting.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#1756 - 2014-07-11 15:27:28 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:

Training up a Catalyst pilot, depending on whether you wish to fly T1 or T2 fittings, does not potentially take that long to do if you have available skill time training. So you can see where a capsuleer may consider deleting an alt and starting a new one up from scratch.



Disposable alts, to get around the negative impact of suicide ganking. Isn't that a ban able offense?

read what bethan's quoting.


The quote from GM Lelouch.

You'd have to be mad to risk a ban though.
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#1757 - 2014-07-11 15:32:54 UTC
Mrs Epeen wrote:
Christina Project wrote:
They're like accountants trying to be lion tambers.
W(here)TF did you learn how to spell?

Your argument is invalid.


Cant beat his argument? No problem, lets pick on a non native English speakers spelling instead!

Classic.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#1758 - 2014-07-11 15:53:30 UTC
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
GM Lelouch wrote:

One final clarification: Alt recycling is defined as the act of using a disposable character/account to perform actions which carry negative consequences within the game and then recycling (biomassing) the character to bypass said consequences and starting all over again with a new character.

1. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then farming up security status once it drops too low? This is totally okay with us.
2. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then deleting the character and replacing it with a new one once security status drops too low? This is not okay.


I am a little confused.
Of what benefit is deleting the character with the low status (but with PvP skills) when you have to make a completely new character to replace him?
Wouldn't the loss of a skilled character be a hindrance?

I have done something like that with my mining characters. I gave a brand new character the isk and other assets owned by an established character (this is the established one), then retired the established character to the forum.
I have given new characters the assets of more established characters before biomassing the older characters, tho. I have even stated multiple times in the forum I had done this and no one raised any alarms about 'recycling'.

Wouldn't the loss of skills be considered a problem for PvP?
My confusion is basically because I avoid PvP, I admit.



Recycling is ok, but recycling to circumvent the game mechanics (i.e. get rid of negative sec standing) is not. At least that's how I understand it.
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#1759 - 2014-07-11 16:19:04 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
GM Lelouch wrote:

One final clarification: Alt recycling is defined as the act of using a disposable character/account to perform actions which carry negative consequences within the game and then recycling (biomassing) the character to bypass said consequences and starting all over again with a new character.

1. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then farming up security status once it drops too low? This is totally okay with us.
2. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then deleting the character and replacing it with a new one once security status drops too low? This is not okay.


I am a little confused.
Of what benefit is deleting the character with the low status (but with PvP skills) when you have to make a completely new character to replace him?
Wouldn't the loss of a skilled character be a hindrance?

I have done something like that with my mining characters. I gave a brand new character the isk and other assets owned by an established character (this is the established one), then retired the established character to the forum.
I have given new characters the assets of more established characters before biomassing the older characters, tho. I have even stated multiple times in the forum I had done this and no one raised any alarms about 'recycling'.

Wouldn't the loss of skills be considered a problem for PvP?
My confusion is basically because I avoid PvP, I admit.



Recycling is ok, but recycling to circumvent the game mechanics (i.e. get rid of negative sec standing) is not. At least that's how I understand it.

I killed so many siblings already, I would be permabanned.
Recycling is okay, but recycling chars with negative sec,
who obviously were only of limited purpose... is a bannable offense.

I'm sure otoh that if I recycled Sol and made her a new,
nobody would bat an eye because I'd go -10 again anyway
and I only use disposable chars for vanity.

So, reality is that common sense trumps everything.

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
Grinder2210
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1760 - 2014-07-11 16:39:55 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.




Unless your me .... Than you have your home made into a rookie system ...... And told that even with a employment history going back years well um that player my still be a rookie ..........


No love for the CanFliper in eve What?