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CCP is thinking about removing the IGB

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hfo df
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
#61 - 2014-07-09 06:36:42 UTC
I'm seeing literally thousands of players using the IGB each day.
Please keep it in, albeit not updated.


(I'm df on eve-dev, but dont respond to the highlight as you folks talk too much about dwarf fortress.)
Winthorp
#62 - 2014-07-09 06:40:49 UTC
I am not sure what i am more angry about, losing access to WH mapping tools or the deposit function to fund my www.evebet.com addiction.

Jokes aside this is pretty bad and not just for WH users, a lot of other areas of the game use the IGB so they better have an alternative in place when they hit the delete button or **** will go back 5 years.
Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2014-07-09 07:06:16 UTC
The IGB is needed. The reasons have been listed here.

Look, CCP, if you have a game that at times is so long-winded as Eve you NEED something else to do. I mean, moving 22 jumps in an Orca to get needed things to a wormhole, or station in LoSec is mostly a non-event. Yet the EULA requires us to still play the game. (So to the gankers, I agree.)

But anyway, who am I kidding.... Eve is dying anyway. ;)
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#64 - 2014-07-09 07:15:55 UTC
Oh wow, this is a pretty amazing thread. Mostly filled with a lot of misunderstanding so let me see if I can clear that up before we get to the Jita riots. Before continuing though, please be advised this post comes to you from a phone and is therefore likely to be filled with even more terribleness than my usual posts. I may try and proof read this though.

So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon and defiantly not without a lot of discussion with the CSM and more importantly you guys. When I say not anytime soon I mean there is no plan to remove it, there is not even a plan to look into how much effort it would be to it. Removing the IGB is as best I can tell years away from happening.

So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.

So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.

The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.

I could go on listing so many other things but the bottom line is this: CREST is a far newer technology and more importantly one we can maintain far easier than the IGB. We would like to remove the IGB but we will not do so until CREST, or even maybe something else, gets us feature equal to the IGB.

Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security problem for everyone this is.

Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.

I hope that elevates your concerns for now. Let's get back to blowing up spaceships and building an awesome universe together and enjoying the sun... Which I might be the only one doing :P

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Winthorp
#65 - 2014-07-09 07:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Oh wow, this is a pretty amazing thread. Mostly filled with a lot of misunderstanding so let me see if I can clear that up before we get to the Jita riots. Before continuing though, please be advised this post comes to you from a phone and is therefore likely to be filled with even more terribleness than my usual posts. I may try and proof read this though.

So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon and defiantly not without a lot of discussion with the CSM and more importantly you guys. When I say not anytime soon I mean there is no plan to remove it, there is not even a plan to look into how much effort it would be to it. Removing the IGB is as best I can tell years away from happening.

So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.

So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.

The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.

I could go on listing so many other things but the bottom line is this: CREST is a far newer technology and more importantly one we can maintain far easier than the IGB. We would like to remove the IGB but we will not do so until CREST, or even maybe something else, gets us feature equal to the IGB.

Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security problem for everyone this is.

Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.

I hope that elevates your concerns for now. Let's get back to blowing up spaceships and building an awesome universe together and enjoying the sun... Which I might be the only one doing :P


Solid response, now if you can just give us back NPC kill API data *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
#66 - 2014-07-09 07:20:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Adriana Nolen
Personally, I support removing IGB cause it punishes blobbers everywhere.

Like the poster above...
Also, NERF cap escalations.
Winthorp
#67 - 2014-07-09 07:21:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Adriana Nolen wrote:
Personally, I support removing IGB cause it punishes blobbers everywhere.


I will never change my mind about you *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#68 - 2014-07-09 08:14:12 UTC
Don't remove the ingame browser!
Its nice to pull upp killboards and wh info and wiki pages with and even reading news on P
You guys could update it some, maybe add flash support? or something.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#69 - 2014-07-09 08:17:03 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Oh wow, this is a pretty amazing thread. Mostly filled with a lot of misunderstanding so let me see if I can clear that up before we get to the Jita riots. Before continuing though, please be advised this post comes to you from a phone and is therefore likely to be filled with even more terribleness than my usual posts. I may try and proof read this though.

So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon and defiantly not without a lot of discussion with the CSM and more importantly you guys. When I say not anytime soon I mean there is no plan to remove it, there is not even a plan to look into how much effort it would be to it. Removing the IGB is as best I can tell years away from happening.

So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.

So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.



This is pretty much what I told a friend today before your response. Well I'd guessed at a browser extension...but yeah however you'll get CREST to work is how you'll do it. But unless there's a component to the SSO thing you all are working on that will help me...then this just makes it more of a pain in the rear...multiple monitors or not.

If all I have to do is be logged into EVE then fine...if it involves more work than current then it is a bad idea/implementation.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2014-07-09 08:22:40 UTC
while most of us might not have multiple monitors, those who do bring the average to 2 or more per capita. (foxfour i feel like you know me so well)

consider me consoled & comforted

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Darkblad
Doomheim
#71 - 2014-07-09 08:22:47 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon
For my very own advantage, I just hope this'll hold true and be somewhere in the range of decades to eternity. Unless there's a way to keep up the functionality to open ingame info within the client from external browsers. Would break a lot of my pages' features (which happen to be German language) if this gets lost.

NPE – ISD – RIP
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#72 - 2014-07-09 08:32:01 UTC
Agrippa Hurt
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2014-07-09 09:05:24 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
in related news: CREST is beginning to scare me.



Shocked GORGEOUS
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#74 - 2014-07-09 10:12:04 UTC
I have removed replies to an edited out part of the post they quoted.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Moloney
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2014-07-09 11:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Moloney
Keep the in game browser!! Or provide an identical in game version of siggy!!

Edit: Hmm... A little late to the party me thinks...
Sum Olgy
Perkone
Caldari State
#76 - 2014-07-09 12:13:23 UTC
Technology moves on. CREST has the potential but I can't see it coming anytime soon, as CCP says.

So in essence nothing happening here for years - move along, nothing to see.
JediMind Tricks
The New Eden Yacht Club
The New Eden Yacht Club.
#77 - 2014-07-09 12:17:01 UTC
soooo many 1 monitor scrubs worrying about having to alt-tab to order a XXL pizza
Stop being peasants and go buy another oneRoll

Still I think the IGB is a good thing, how else am I going to change the name of a link to PVP Drake and ask someone to check my fit, only when they open the link they get bombarded with grotty shizz Cool
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#78 - 2014-07-09 12:21:43 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Oh wow, this is a pretty amazing thread. Mostly filled with a lot of misunderstanding so let me see if I can clear that up before we get to the Jita riots. Before continuing though, please be advised this post comes to you from a phone and is therefore likely to be filled with even more terribleness than my usual posts. I may try and proof read this though.

So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon and defiantly not without a lot of discussion with the CSM and more importantly you guys. When I say not anytime soon I mean there is no plan to remove it, there is not even a plan to look into how much effort it would be to it. Removing the IGB is as best I can tell years away from happening.

So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.

So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.

The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.

I could go on listing so many other things but the bottom line is this: CREST is a far newer technology and more importantly one we can maintain far easier than the IGB. We would like to remove the IGB but we will not do so until CREST, or even maybe something else, gets us feature equal to the IGB.

Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security problem for everyone this is.

Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.

I hope that elevates your concerns for now. Let's get back to blowing up spaceships and building an awesome universe together and enjoying the sun... Which I might be the only one doing :P


Thank you for the response. I still would be bothered by the loss of the I even in the context of CREST. I play full screen and don't like tabbing out. I only have one monitor but even if I had two sometimes I travel and while lugging the laptop is no big deal lugging a monitor would be. Also sometimes like with wormhole sigs a ctrl - copy is used to move the data to an entry field within an application of the IGB. That is likely not going to be possible if working across different devices.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#79 - 2014-07-09 12:24:12 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.

The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.

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Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

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CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, “outing” of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.



I have also moved this thread to General Discussion as this topic is not only relevant to Wormholes, but especially considering the explanation given by CCP FoxFour, to all EvE players in general.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2014-07-09 12:46:57 UTC  |  Edited by: De'Veldrin
JediMind Tricks wrote:
soooo many 1 monitor scrubs worrying about having to alt-tab to order a XXL pizza
Stop being peasants and go buy another oneRoll


So what you're saying is that everyone who has more than one monitor is a Fatty McFatterson who uses the second monitor solely to speed up their ability to inhale large amounts of calories at an ever increasing rate? Like little human black holes of foodstuffs? Is that what you're implying? HUH?!?!

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.