These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#981 - 2014-06-26 12:39:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


It can never be as effective on paper as a catalyst. But if they neglect to tank for EM, it can be far more effective in actual combat.


You know, I might have to dump some SP down that road just for kicks and grins :)


The guy that got me into ganking, and subsequently PVP, has a toon by the name of Perpetuum Myrkur. If you look through his killboards to say, sometime between June-September last year, you'll see he did his ganking almost exclusively solo, and in Coercers.

EDIT: April 25, 2013, is the place to look. And it seems there are a tonne of ganks missing from Zkill. Haven't checked EVE-kill yet though.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#982 - 2014-06-26 12:40:51 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


The guy that got me into ganking, and subsequently PVP, has a toon by the name of Perpetuum Myrkur. If you look through his killboards to say, sometime between June-September last year, you'll see he did his ganking almost exclusively solo, and in Coercers.


Taking a look at it now - thanks a lot! I do most of my work solo, and it sounds like a lot of fun to do it in a way that I have never done it before :)
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#983 - 2014-06-26 12:41:21 UTC
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


The guy that got me into ganking, and subsequently PVP, has a toon by the name of Perpetuum Myrkur. If you look through his killboards to say, sometime between June-September last year, you'll see he did his ganking almost exclusively solo, and in Coercers.


Taking a look at it now - thanks a lot! I do most of my work solo, and it sounds like a lot of fun to do it in a way that I have never done it before :)


I edited above with some more direction.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#984 - 2014-06-26 12:42:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


It can never be as effective on paper as a catalyst. But if they neglect to tank for EM, it can be far more effective in actual combat.


You know, I might have to dump some SP down that road just for kicks and grins :)


In a world where everyone tanks kin/therm...


It's best to read the above in Don LaFontaine voiceBig smile
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#985 - 2014-06-26 12:43:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


It can never be as effective on paper as a catalyst. But if they neglect to tank for EM, it can be far more effective in actual combat.


You know, I might have to dump some SP down that road just for kicks and grins :)


In a world where everyone tanks kin/therm...


It's best to read the above in Don LaFontaine voiceBig smile


Followed directions and was rewarded with a very large smile. Left happy, would return again, A++
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#986 - 2014-06-26 18:10:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:

Not for miners. And that's taking drones into account, which gankers do when they consider attacking miners.
Being hard to kill is just as valid a way of PvPing as shooting guns. Gankers will rarely attack a well fitted mining ship when there's several with shitfits in the same belt.

Quote:
Gankers attack miners knowing almost exactly what they need to kill the miner.
You can mine and know almost exactly how many gankers are required to kill you, if the cost of the gankers ships exceeds the cost of yours they'll generally not bother with you, especially if there's easier and juicier targets close to you

Quote:
What I think is needed is a way miners can spring a trap and ambush the unwary ganker (who thinks he has a easy killmail coming).
There is, it's called friends, and fitting your ship appropriately for use in a hostile environment

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The Venture can already fit guns. Only barges cannot, that is their tradeoff for getting Strip Mining Modules.
Barges can however fit neuts, miners can even mine with them fitted as long as they're not using a Skiff or Procurer.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#987 - 2014-06-26 20:05:54 UTC
Noragli wrote:

It's obvious to anyone who looks at it with a clear mind. If players are not enjoying the game, they quit.


Indeed!!! If the freighter pilots were to get their wishes, the gankers wouldn't be able to shoot anything and would unsub. As a result CCP will lose subscriptions. This is very very bad, therefor CCP should make it easier for -10 characters to shoot freighters.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#988 - 2014-06-26 20:12:28 UTC
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
Give me an armed miner and I will probably be in low waiting for that unprepared ganker. Until then, don't expect me to leave high sec.


Sorry, I really don't want to buy you a skiff. Can you please not beg on these forums?

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Thomas Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#989 - 2014-06-26 20:13:48 UTC
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
I guess it was only time before the New Order gave up ganking miners.


When did that happen?


It happened when they decided to gank freighters rather than mining barges. When the Conference Elite redeployed from Isanamo they also left that area pretty much without any cover. The amount of people within the New Order that can gank effectively isn't as large as what people think, this explains their switch to mass gank easier targets.


Go to Zkill, and look up Ordion.

I assure you, they are still ganking miners.


I'll send a retriever Alt the 24jumps to mine in Ordion for a couple of days. I'll get back to you if I find anything.


I didn't meet any New Order in Ordion. All I got was 200million in Ore and Ice. But so many miners fitting for yield, its as though no one cares about the New Order any more?
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#990 - 2014-06-26 20:37:20 UTC
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
I didn't meet any New Order in Ordion. All I got was 200million in Ore and Ice. But so many miners fitting for yield, its as though no one cares about the New Order any more?
Fitting for max tank isn't the only way to avoid ganks.

It's just the easiest.

But highsec miners are lazy and slow, that's why the gentle gankers advise fitting a tank.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Thomas Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#991 - 2014-06-26 20:56:20 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
I didn't meet any New Order in Ordion. All I got was 200million in Ore and Ice. But so many miners fitting for yield, its as though no one cares about the New Order any more?
Fitting for max tank isn't the only way to avoid ganks.

It's just the easiest.

But highsec miners are lazy and slow, that's why the gentle gankers advise fitting a tank.


Fitting a tank costs yield. It would seem that the gankers are either too lazy or slow to keep up with the miners replacing their ships.
In my experience of gankers is that they are too lazy. They spend the majority of their time sitting in stations waffling on how they are going to get you but never do.

Eg of New order waffle

You have been added as contact
From: DJentropy Ovaert
Sent: 2014.05.03 09:59

DJentropy Ovaert has added you as contact with Terrible Standing

*Red Pen Violation - Gank on sight, 3x permit cost*
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#992 - 2014-06-26 21:08:04 UTC
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
It would seem that the gankers are either too lazy or slow to keep up with the miners replacing their ships.
Don't you know ccp introduced the 15-min gcc to account for avg miner reshipping time? Some of them don't even know you can instantly fit a saved fitting.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#993 - 2014-06-26 21:18:11 UTC
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
Fitting a tank costs yield. It would seem that the gankers are either too lazy or slow to keep up with the miners replacing their ships.
In my experience of gankers is that they are too lazy. They spend the majority of their time sitting in stations waffling on how they are going to get you but never do.

Eg of New order waffle

You have been added as contact
From: DJentropy Ovaert
Sent: 2014.05.03 09:59

DJentropy Ovaert has added you as contact with Terrible Standing

*Red Pen Violation - Gank on sight, 3x permit cost*

If miners were prepared to accept ship losses as a cost of doing business they wouldn't expend so much effort in whining about suicide ganking.

You say that fitting a tank costs yield, in that you are correct, that said my 20M isk Procurer paid for itself in a couple of hours, 3 years later I still have it.

In terms of actual ISK/hr I would say that my Procurer is actually better than a Mackinaw, because of a lower initial cost, no ship replacement costs etc. I get to spend my ISK on nice things like pirate BS's and T3's, instead of replacing max yield mining ships.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Thomas Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#994 - 2014-06-26 21:24:09 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
It would seem that the gankers are either too lazy or slow to keep up with the miners replacing their ships.
Don't you know ccp introduced the 15-min gcc to account for avg miner reshipping time? Some of them don't even know you can instantly fit a saved fitting.


So CCP is to blame for gankers being lazy. As for the gankers not knowing about the saved fitting function I suppose that is what you get when you have to rely on people providing you with freebie fitted ships.
Thomas Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#995 - 2014-06-26 21:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Mayaki
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
Fitting a tank costs yield. It would seem that the gankers are either too lazy or slow to keep up with the miners replacing their ships.
In my experience of gankers is that they are too lazy. They spend the majority of their time sitting in stations waffling on how they are going to get you but never do.

Eg of New order waffle

You have been added as contact
From: DJentropy Ovaert
Sent: 2014.05.03 09:59

DJentropy Ovaert has added you as contact with Terrible Standing

*Red Pen Violation - Gank on sight, 3x permit cost*

If miners were prepared to accept ship losses as a cost of doing business they wouldn't expend so much effort in whining about suicide ganking.

You say that fitting a tank costs yield, in that you are correct, that said my 20M isk Procurer paid for itself in a couple of hours, 3 years later I still have it.

In terms of actual ISK/hr I would say that my Procurer is actually better than a Mackinaw, because of a lower initial cost, no ship replacement costs etc. I get to spend my ISK on nice things like pirate BS's and T3's, instead of replacing max yield mining ships.


3yrs ago you would not have wanted to fly a procurer and they wouldn't have cost 20million isk.
Procurers were bad, the hulk was king 3yrs ago.

Edit : Procurers were so bad the Osprey outmined it. After the Osprey the next ship was the retriever.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#996 - 2014-06-26 21:29:50 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
It would seem that the gankers are either too lazy or slow to keep up with the miners replacing their ships.
Don't you know ccp introduced the 15-min gcc to account for avg miner reshipping time? Some of them don't even know you can instantly fit a saved fitting.

apart from the lasers, upgrades and scanner, miners don't fit their ships P
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#997 - 2014-06-26 21:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
3yrs ago you would not have wanted to fly a procurer and they wouldn't have cost 20million isk. Procurers were bad, the hulk was king 3yrs ago.
3 years ago I was living in a WH, which is a different environment with different mechanics, and a whole lot more risk than anywhere else.

The Hulk may have been king in highsec, in a wormhole it was, and still is a KM waiting to happen, I didn't have the skills for one either. The 20M ISK price is based on what a Procurer cost last time I looked at them on the market.

Orca Support from corpies and Jetcans were my friend when I could barely fly a Procurer let alone a Hulk. Procurers were crap back then, but they were cheap, and not worth killing, strangely enough they're still cheap, and generally not worth killing.

Got any further holes to pick or comments to make?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#998 - 2014-06-26 21:54:04 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Winchester Steele wrote:
How is it that my hauler has flown freighters endlessly back and forth across high-sec for years and NEVER once been ganked? I think this really honestly comes down to PEBCAK* in a vast majority of these ganks. It's really far too easy to avoid these sorts of engagements currently, and if you cannot or will not, well then that is your problem.

* Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard.
I'd buy that were it not for incidents like Aufey or burn Jita. Those special occasions where typical common sense and the things that keep you off the killboard 99 times out of 100 just don't work out because someone wants to make your day just a bit more special.

Of course others may just consider that to be the complacency of highsec, and that every freighter should always travel with a full complement of scout, webbers, ECM and other countergank support (Yea hyperbole!), but until the level of activity in those incidents becomes the norm, or even just slightly more common/widespread can you blame them?

And aside from paying the extortion fee, do you think your normal prep would have gotten you through Aufay?


I think a better question would be... If a capsuleer is aware of places like Aufay and incidents like Burn Jita, yet they still choose to go there; what room is there for complaint after the fact when prior knowledge of adverse conditions wasn't enough to calculate a different route?

Thank me later :D
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#999 - 2014-06-26 21:57:43 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:

I think a better question would be... If a capsuleer is aware of places like Aufay and incidents like Burn Jita, yet they still choose to go there; what room is there for complaint after the fact when prior knowledge of adverse conditions wasn't enough to calculate a different route?



Culture of victimhood.

Crying about it makes it someone else's fault, which means that the "victim" does not have to countenance any self inadequacies or confront a sense of loss so long as they can salve their feelings using the theoretical complicity of anyone else.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#1000 - 2014-06-26 22:10:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:

I think a better question would be... If a capsuleer is aware of places like Aufay and incidents like Burn Jita, yet they still choose to go there; what room is there for complaint after the fact when prior knowledge of adverse conditions wasn't enough to calculate a different route?



Culture of victimhood.

Crying about it makes it someone else's fault, which means that the "victim" does not have to countenance any self inadequacies or confront a sense of loss so long as they can salve their feelings using the theoretical complicity of anyone else.


Gee, what crowd does this sound like? ... People who become mired down in feeling victimized tend to view events in their lives as happening to them and feel ineffective and overwhelmed. They also operate on the basic assumption that the world should be fair, which is a child’s way of thinking. They tend to project the circumstances of their early childhood, where they were indeed helpless, onto present-day situations and relationships, and fail to recognize that, as adults, they have far more power than they had as children.

Idea STAHHHHHP.

Thank me later :D