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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#861 - 2014-06-24 17:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
xXFreshnessXx wrote:
Not useless, just makes the logistics of ganking less easy. Find the alt orca, get the ships and fits, put in ship go to safe kick out, have pods waiting. etc etc. Fine but it adds complexity and time to the operation that may help our target get away(not rreally). Maybe there should be a rule like bumping freighters and ransoming.. that you can't pop empty freighters or jf with anything less than 50 mil of value in cargo requiring scans of all freighter/jfs before shooting?
Orca Alt puts ships in cargo, warps to a pre arranged safe, pods warp to safe, board ships, gank. It's no more complicated than boarding the ships at a station, most gankers undock and instawarp to a pre BM'd safe to avoid any anti gankers that may be sitting on the undock anyway.

The only plus side of your idea is that some anti gankers may decide to countergank the Orca, which will get them Concordokken. It's got that going for it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#862 - 2014-06-24 17:28:28 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

The only plus side of your idea is that some anti gankers may decide to countergank the Orca, which will get them Concordokken. It's got that going for it.


The downside being that you've run into Malcanis' Law by crippling the ability of new players to engage in any kind of piracy on their own. Especially if the barrier for entry becomes "Orca or gtfo", all you have done is strip away player freedom for no practical change.

Nevermind that CCP needs to buff ganking, not the other way around.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

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Radric Davids
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#863 - 2014-06-24 17:29:13 UTC
CCP just nerfed suicide ganking a few weeks ago. Stop anti-tanking your freighters and auto-piloting around like morons. Plenty of freighter pilots know exactly how to avoid getting ganked - basically to the point of safety. Anyone can learn how to do it, but instead they take to the forums weeks after a nerf to ganking to whine about how they feel entitled to impunity in 0.5 systems and that it's not fair that they can't just waddle around without scouting or taking measures against gankers.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#864 - 2014-06-24 17:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

The only plus side of your idea is that some anti gankers may decide to countergank the Orca, which will get them Concordokken. It's got that going for it.


The downside being that you've run into Malcanis' Law by crippling the ability of new players to engage in any kind of piracy on their own. Especially if the barrier for entry becomes "Orca or gtfo", all you have done is strip away player freedom for no practical change.

Nevermind that CCP needs to buff ganking, not the other way around.
Indeed

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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xXFreshnessXx
Segmentum Solar
#865 - 2014-06-24 17:34:10 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
xXFreshnessXx wrote:
Not useless, just makes the logistics of ganking less easy. Find the alt orca, get the ships and fits, put in ship go to safe kick out, have pods waiting. etc etc. Fine but it adds complexity and time to the operation that may help our target get away(not rreally). Maybe there should be a rule like bumping freighters and ransoming.. that you can't pop empty freighters or jf with anything less than 50 mil of value in cargo requiring scans of all freighter/jfs before shooting?
Orca Alt puts ships in cargo, warps to a pre arranged safe, pods warp to safe, board ships, gank. It's no more complicated than boarding the ships at a station, most gankers undock and instawarp to a pre BM'd safe to avoid any anti gankers that may be sitting on the undock anyway.

The only plus side of your idea is that some anti gankers may decide to countergank the Orca, which will get them Concordokken. It's got that going for it.



Exactly it's got risk involved for both parties. You got it, currently little to none..
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xXFreshnessXx
Segmentum Solar
#866 - 2014-06-24 17:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: xXFreshnessXx
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

The only plus side of your idea is that some anti gankers may decide to countergank the Orca, which will get them Concordokken. It's got that going for it.


The downside being that you've run into Malcanis' Law by crippling the ability of new players to engage in any kind of piracy on their own. Especially if the barrier for entry becomes "Orca or gtfo", all you have done is strip away player freedom for no practical change.

Nevermind that CCP needs to buff ganking, not the other way around.



When does a solo player or 4 man destroyer gang gank freighters in High Sec? Please show me. Kaarous that makes no sense..
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#867 - 2014-06-24 17:38:50 UTC
xXFreshnessXx wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

The only plus side of your idea is that some anti gankers may decide to countergank the Orca, which will get them Concordokken. It's got that going for it.


The downside being that you've run into Malcanis' Law by crippling the ability of new players to engage in any kind of piracy on their own. Especially if the barrier for entry becomes "Orca or gtfo", all you have done is strip away player freedom for no practical change.

Nevermind that CCP needs to buff ganking, not the other way around.



When does a solo player or 4 man destroyer gang gank freighters in High Sec? Please show me. Kaarous that makes no sense..


Your proposal wouldn't just effect freighter gankers.

Duh.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#868 - 2014-06-24 17:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
xXFreshnessXx wrote:

Exactly it's got risk involved for both parties. You got it, currently little to none..
TBH some gankers already use an Orca alt to drop ships at a safe, the FacPo don't chase pods and it extends the available window of opportunity. Personally I believe that it should be up to other players to provide risk for gankers, just as gankers provide risk for other players. The anti gankers have the right idea, they need to work on their implementation though.

TL;DR changing the mechanics won't really change anything at all for gankers, the work around is already in place, and is being used. It may however raise the barrier to entry for newer players, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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xXFreshnessXx
Segmentum Solar
#869 - 2014-06-24 17:51:08 UTC
Listen I don't have a dog in this fight for the side I'm fighting for.. never have. I haven't even logged in to drop low/null or gank something in highsec in 3 weeks, I'm just saying it should be more balanced and fair as far as risk/reward involved. So back to null.. I mean steam games I go until the next capital fight. o7 LOL
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#870 - 2014-06-24 17:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
That's fair enough, you believe that mechanics are the key to balancing risk and reward, I believe that other players are the key to balancing risk and reward.

I'll agree to disagree P

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Rennseslear X
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#871 - 2014-06-24 19:45:46 UTC
does anyone have some water wings or an inner tube they arent using?
following this thread is fun, but the tears are getting deep.

EWE OAR SOFA KING WE TALL DID
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#872 - 2014-06-24 22:28:43 UTC
Rennseslear X wrote:
does anyone have some water wings or an inner tube they arent using?
following this thread is fun, but the tears are getting deep.

I'm attempting to filter out the salt and distill the water to resell at a profit on poorer planets.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#873 - 2014-06-25 01:49:27 UTC
xXFreshnessXx wrote:
Nah you seemed to be butthurt about AFK piloting players my friend, maybe they need to wipe yours. Let's stick to the true problem here.
What “true problem” is that?
Dylan Doe
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#874 - 2014-06-25 06:52:15 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Sure but, if you're making highsec safer you need to make highsec less lucrative too. Meaning L4 missions now pay what an L1 mission would pay, incursions pay considerably less and highsec systems get made larger for longer warp times.

Security patrols must be paid, so I would prefer some taxes on revenues.
Could be interesting to have have direct relation between security level and amount of security taxes : the more security you want, the more taxes you pay (you would pay less taxes on 0.5 than on 1.0).
Of course, peoples could ask for better security in high-sec, but how much taxes would they pay for they security ? 10%, 20%, 50% ?

I run, therefore I am; more correctly, I run, therefore with any luck I’ll still be.
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#875 - 2014-06-25 17:56:26 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Noragli wrote:
When you let one group of players mercilessly grief another set, you lose players.

like the carebears who refuse to protect themselves continually demanding that other players' playstyles are nerfed?

Quote:
Simple and obvious fix to a serious problem.

what problem? you haven't established the existence of any 'problem'.


The problem is quite simple.

It has become too easy for immature, blood-thirsty idiots to target helpless targets and not lose anything outside a little time.

The best fix to the problem would be to allow some of the "helpless" targets the ability to arm themselves. Thus, when the coward ganker goes in for 'the kill', he discovers the "unarmed" frieghter, industrial, or miner he targetted is actually hell DPS in space.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#876 - 2014-06-25 18:08:04 UTC
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
It has become too easy for immature, blood-thirsty idiots to target helpless targets and not lose anything outside a little time.

how? why is it too easy? how easy is it? how can you demonstrate this? do you insult and make assumptions about everyone you disagree with? do you understand that perjorative terms do not adequately support a statement for it to be considered true?
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#877 - 2014-06-25 18:09:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Noragli wrote:
When you let one group of players mercilessly grief another set, you lose players.

like the carebears who refuse to protect themselves continually demanding that other players' playstyles are nerfed?

Quote:
Simple and obvious fix to a serious problem.

what problem? you haven't established the existence of any 'problem'.


The problem is quite simple.

It has become too easy for immature, blood-thirsty idiots to target helpless targets and not lose anything outside a little time.

The best fix to the problem would be to allow some of the "helpless" targets the ability to arm themselves. Thus, when the coward ganker goes in for 'the kill', he discovers the "unarmed" frieghter, industrial, or miner he targetted is actually hell DPS in space.


But then they need to fly a ship with weapons. Which means to fix the issue they need to fly something other then what you just named.

Well eureka, I just solved the issue. In order for them to attack -10 ships they need to fly ships with guns as well. Who would have thought.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#878 - 2014-06-25 18:09:23 UTC
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
It has become too easy for immature, blood-thirsty idiots to target helpless targets and not lose anything outside a little time.


If it has become so easy to do, why are there vastly less people doing it now?

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#879 - 2014-06-25 18:22:13 UTC
Love this thread.

All the sociopaths are saying "ganking is hard and not as frequent".
Serious high sec players post the real facts about ganking.

And the most common target of the griefers, the casual player, the ones that don't read these forums, let alone post on them, well they make their views known in the most eloquent way possible: PCU is down, subs are down after a 10 year run upwards.

But I am sure the griefers will soon flock to say black is white, up is down, and subs are actually up, not down.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#880 - 2014-06-25 18:24:59 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Love this thread.

All the sociopaths are saying "ganking is hard and not as frequent".
Serious high sec players post the real facts about ganking.

And the most common target of the griefers, the casual player, the ones that don't read these forums, let alone post on them, well they make their views known in the most eloquent way possible: PCU is down, subs are down after a 10 year run upwards.

But I am sure the griefers will soon flock to say black is white, up is down, and subs are actually up, not down.


Then Dinsdale jumps on to post more tinfoil. The circle of life is complete.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.