Science & Industry

It would also mean that SC hotdrops are very unlikely, since they have to stay for 30min+ to get the kill. I would assume PL, N3, BL and CFC (to name a few) would be willing to kill some supers that sit idle in space waiting :P

and impractical.. agree.

I know plenty of people who sit a Rorq in a "safe pos" - that they don't own or have rights to use, just the field password. So the Rorq is still needed for compression.

While details may vary, this type of thinking is the only thing that would ever get anyone to put a Rorq in a belt. Yeah, it would be total game changer for mining. But nothing short of this will cause any kind of change.

Personally I haul it to station. Miasmos can carry over 60 blocks a time in the ore hold.

My opening clause was "details may vary". Basically, all the various POS bubble ideas are telling us the Rorqual will need some kind of 'god mode' in order to ever go into a belt. You can't give it more tank or more drones or whatever. It will need a god mode. There have been a number of various ideas about what some sort of POS bubble would be like:

- Whether other ships would be able to enter the bubble/benefit from the god mode, and whether said ships would only be industrial ships or whatever.

- What sort of activities the Rorqual could engage in from within the bubble/while the god mode is active. Can it tractor from within it? Can it remote shield rep from within it? Can it target ships and send drones from within it?

- Will the bubble/god mode be attached to the Industrial Core or not?

- What would the activation/deactivation mechanics of the bubble/god mode be? Can it align from within it? Can it keep it's god mode going a couple seconds after 'deactivation' in order to warp or cyno out?

- How intense should the god mode/bubble itself be? Total invulnerability? Millions of EHP and reinforcement timer?

The bullets above are all open to debate. I am not specifically defining all the details of any sort of POS bubble or other type of god mode. However, I am just saying that adding standard offense and defense and tweaking speed/alignment, giving EWAR immunity that does nothing against HICs etc. will not change the Rorqual's situation. Any change to the Rorq must tilt the risk/reward factor down to something like 1% risk, massive reward, if it is going to be used in belts. Various incarnations of the bubble/god mode involve a reinforcement timer so that a Rorqual deployment could actually be a conflict generator. Others just remove the Rorqual from the risk/reward play style that Eve is known for. But in the case of the Rorqual, would it be such an egregious sin to force the combat pilots to go shoot something that can shoot back?

The Rorqual will need to introduce a radical new variable in order to completely change the landscape for low sec and null sec mining if there's doing to be any change to the mining dynamics in PvP space at all.

Short of a god mode for the Rorqual I am just going to keep sitting in low sec surrounded by virgin ice fields. That's just a fact.

Ok so Fozzie says the changes will make you "WANT" to take a Roqual into a belt. Not it will force you to, but it will be so worthwhile you will want to.

We can also look at other industrial ships to see how far they might be willing to go.

We know that the change will not make a Roqual invulnerable, or impossible to kill, that would be equally unbalanced.

So what changes could be made to the Roqual, that will not only make it worthwhile to bring into a belt, but leave it vulnerable to attack at the same time?

if we find that answer, we have our update. Why not make the Roqual a viable, if not sub-par, combat ship.

Really, if you stop to think about. What is the problem with an industrial ship being able to be fit for PVP. Perhaps that is the real answer.

Say for example a Skiff could be fit with a very respectable PVP fit. Not better than a ship designed for it, but enough to make gankers stop and think, is this miner worth my time?, possibly a PVP fit ship, it could just be a trap? Or even give it both, maybe allow strip miners to target other ships,do damage, or tackle, perhaps disabling their warp drive, or preventing capitals from jumping. Something to add combat utility.

the same for a Roqual, give it combat viability, by sacrificing industrial utility it could be a real threat in combat, not just a very expensive pinata

Ok, so that could result in Roqual's and mining ships being used in PVP. So what, does it really matter? Would having additional options really be a bad thing? What difference would it make if a perfectly viable PVP ship was primarily intended to be a mining ship, or other industrial ship. let the lines blurr, let industrial ships be viable for PVP, even if it is at the expense of their primary purpose. After all, i have seen some pretty impressive PVP fits for ventures, even the new DST's can be fit for low level mission running, with comparable DPS to the ships normally used, but a way stronger tank, and a huge cargo hold. anyone remember the battle badger, or try running low level missions in a Bustard, two light missile launchers, and a 100k ehp, or very good active tank. going toe to toe with most frigates, or even some cruisers, this thing could win. and you won't run out of room for loot.

My point is, if the Roqual was changed in a way that made it viable as a PVP ship, really, why would that be a problem. the same has already been done with other industrial ships, why not the roqual, and for that matter why not all mining ships?

As long as it was not superior to the ships it would be competing with, I don't see a problem. Sure its primary design will always be geared to ward industrial use, but that does not mean it can not have a potential alternative use for PVP.

The industrial core just needs to die. 90% rorqual problems solved right there.

rorqual to become a capital sized exhumer?

give it a capital sized ice/stripminer. Its function then would be to boost/haul/mine. I'd like to see the industrial core reworked so the rorqual can deploy for much longer periods of time and essentially become a small deployable station for industrial/mining purposes. Think of it like a large mobile deport designed to assist miners.

It would have to have some kind of reinforcement mechanic to prevent it from just dying to hotdrops all over new eden. Maybe even able to dock 2-3 players inside it, keeping the same restrictions of industrial class ships.

It would be very cool to be able to have real mining expeditions in eve.

This thankyouverymuch.