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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Eodp Ellecon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#941 - 2014-05-22 22:37:22 UTC
Suddenly 40+ pages, TL;DR.

I like tool tips and use them often...saw some requesting ability to turn off due to familiarity which I understand. I couldn't think of how to turn off only some categories and not others soooo...I'd like to have a mobile window for these tips so I can place them out of the way but easy to reference, ala those invisible windows for dmg done or targeted items move around. For my purposes, this window would show all tips, whether skills, PI info, etc.

At the same time I want to be able to move the HUD readout (Approaching, Orbiting, etc) to another location. It gets in the way when you have many targets locked but the locked targets bar down close to the modules themselves when mounted on the bottom portion of the screen.

ty,
Eo
Lexiana Del'Amore
Nouvelle Rouvenor
#942 - 2014-05-22 22:57:09 UTC
i'm reasonably happy with the introduction of a slider for tooltips, but would much prefer a on/off funtion or at least a 10 second longer delay if you have slider set to longest delay... No matter how usefull a tooltip might be to a person, at some point you have learned what it is it's teaching you. At that point it becomes a cause of major frustration. University students don't start each class with a recitation of their ABC's...


About the ingame brackets...

The old system was far superior from a interactive standpoint, especially in pvp situations where every second and click or misclick can count. It did not obscure your field of vision in a way that the new system does.

As a pilot who flies logistical ships in small/medium faction war fleets i'll give you a example...

We are about to jump into a system where a enemy fleet is at the sun... a pilot in our comms but not in our fleet has tackle on a enemy battleship. As a logi pilot i want to provide logistics for our non fleeted tackler friend as soon as we land on grid. With the old system i could pick him out of a gaint blob with pinpoint accuracy and get him locked up to provide reps ASAP. Now with the new system i get the giant black box of death where i would have to scroll through a list losing valuable time. meanwhile this box obscures whatever is going on behind it.

The old system felt like a surgeon's knife, new system feels like a hammer...
Oraac Ensor
#943 - 2014-05-22 22:59:38 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP karkur wrote:
Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is? (a genuine question and please be specific, for example: "cannot point/target object is space", why not, what is the problem?)
Most of the complaints I have seen about it is that you cannot click through it, but that was the case with the brackets before (we have old clients we can compare to).
The delay has now been fixed, the opacity has been tuned down, the list only appears on clusters.... what else is so horrible except that it's new?


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Prior to your post, you have FORTY-SIX PAGES of posts telling you what's wrong with it.

The detail stuff sometimes varies from one player to another, but from what I can see just about everyone is unanimous about one thing:

It's a RUDDY GREAT BLACK BOX sitting smack in the middle of the screen where no such thing should be appearing.

Boxes of additional explanatory text inside or alongside existing information boxes are just about acceptable but in-space information should appear only as discreet, unobtrusive floating text - no box and no black background.

So, apart from all the other considerations, this massive, intrusive, in-your-face black monstrosity totally destroys any sense of immersion.

GET RID OF IT.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Alexis Nightwish
#944 - 2014-05-23 00:20:46 UTC
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
I just wanted to say that we are still taking onboard the feedback in this thread and elsewhere. We are continuing to work on improving the overall experience with tooltips and contextual information in general.

I understand where some of the concerns about abandonment of this package of features 'as is' are coming from but that is definitely not an option as far as we are concerned.

We're looking to put out a patch tomorrow fixing some specific defects but also putting in some delay configuration options.


Please make it an option. Take a look at my previous, wonderful overview.

Now, look at the travesty it has become!

It's worthless now! Sad

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Jimmy Prophet
State War Academy
Caldari State
#945 - 2014-05-23 00:36:10 UTC
Something else i have noticed. When having the delay set to maximum for in flight settings i hover over something and wait for a tooltip but when i move the mouse to another object the tooltip for the new object appears alomost instantly instead of the long delay
Irya Boone
The Scope
#946 - 2014-05-23 00:38:24 UTC
make it an option CCP , make it by default OK , so new players can have it but for vets no need that , don't do like the other things when you waited 3/4 month to understand our voices.

Thx

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Josef Djugashvilis
#947 - 2014-05-23 06:58:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
CCP have foolishly backed themselves into a corner over this by stating that they will not provide an off button.

The only 'adjustment - tweak' which will satisfy most of the player base is an an off button.

CCP need to man up, recognize that even though they tried to do a good thing, they have simply got this wrong by an order of magnitude, and give their player base an off button.

Have I mentioned that we want on off button?

This is not a signature.
Darkie Katelo
Offerings of Blood
#948 - 2014-05-23 07:46:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkie Katelo
Let me make it clear why i need a OFF button
My desktop with "ToolTips"
http://imgur.com/gWrU71m
My desktop without "ToolTips"
http://imgur.com/aQ6VKQB
That is the "ToolTip" for me in space, a BIG BLACK Sticky note with redundand information blocking my view for whats behind it.
Every new player learns this in tutorial, what is a Stargate, Station, ETC.
You consider us childs who dont know what are we doing in space. We do know what to do. Please for the sake of everything what is nice in this game, please give us a OFF BUTTON!!
Eurynome Mangeiri
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#949 - 2014-05-23 08:31:15 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is? (a genuine question and please be specific, for example: "cannot point/target object is space", why not, what is the problem?)
Most of the complaints I have seen about it is that you cannot click through it, but that was the case with the brackets before (we have old clients we can compare to).
The delay has now been fixed, the opacity has been tuned down, the list only appears on clusters.... what else is so horrible except that it's new?
Just so know, we are still keeping an eye on the situation, and have had a lot of discussions about it.

If there is huge lag (which we have not experienced), then please file a bugreport on it. Running the logserver and submitting that file might be a good idea, so we can better investigate potential issues.

.....last time i will answer you guys, it's like speaking to a wall it seems:


page 1 post #17

1- the tooltips get in the way and prevent UI usage in critical situation
2- the tooltips content is useless since it shows LESS info than previous one, and said few info is redundant
3- we want the ability to TURN THEM OFF (at least the in space one)

what in hell is hard to understand in this?
Irya Boone
The Scope
#950 - 2014-05-23 09:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Irya Boone
This ^

and
OK ok no no i get it they can turn it off because of code Ok BUT

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT considering you have just done it

INCREASE THE DELAY TO X seconds ... X= 5min or MORE so (it would be like it was turn off. )

You see we are not deafs CCP , don't be evil.

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Locii
State War Academy
Caldari State
#951 - 2014-05-23 10:43:31 UTC
can you just attach tool tips to the same delay tool as for radial menus. I find both annoying and really don't need to see them
Orla- King-Griffin
#952 - 2014-05-23 13:15:14 UTC
Just pointing out here, we now have a couple of sliders (anyone else remember that show?), set it to long and you actually have to try to see them.

Ah shite...
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#953 - 2014-05-23 13:46:33 UTC
Thanks. Well that didn't seem so hard, although an off button would have been preferable.

And since you are probably reading this thread while ignoring another thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4630311#post4630311
How about a delay slider on the gate jump graphics? Some of us could then set the delay long enough to have the graphics overridden by the display of the new system due to the session change into the new system. Again though, an persisting off button for the jump (and another for the autoscan) visuals would be preferable.

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Lisa Gentilette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#954 - 2014-05-23 14:49:27 UTC
Dear dev's, while you're busy making our EVE game lives a little less annoying from this great UI add-on, could you also look into this next thread and see if you can get rid of the pop-up windows that take our control completely away while flying around in important spaceships?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346524

It's 2014, a don't show this again button would be nice with a tiny replacement countdown clock somewhere at a corner for standard downtime messages.

Hm, having written that, how about an option on your beloved tooltips to have a "do not show this again" button somewhere while pressing ALT or something when hovering over the wonderful tooltips which are often not tool tips but just plain information, but that aside. Big smile

Please?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#955 - 2014-05-23 14:56:19 UTC
Eurynome Mangeiri wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is? (a genuine question and please be specific, for example: "cannot point/target object is space", why not, what is the problem?)
Most of the complaints I have seen about it is that you cannot click through it, but that was the case with the brackets before (we have old clients we can compare to).
The delay has now been fixed, the opacity has been tuned down, the list only appears on clusters.... what else is so horrible except that it's new?
Just so know, we are still keeping an eye on the situation, and have had a lot of discussions about it.

If there is huge lag (which we have not experienced), then please file a bugreport on it. Running the logserver and submitting that file might be a good idea, so we can better investigate potential issues.

.....last time i will answer you guys, it's like speaking to a wall it seems:


page 1 post #17

1- the tooltips get in the way and prevent UI usage in critical situation
2- the tooltips content is useless since it shows LESS info than previous one, and said few info is redundant
3- we want the ability to TURN THEM OFF (at least the in space one)

what in hell is hard to understand in this?
Oh they understand it completely. But they are now so concerned with protecting the idea, they care not to change it in a way that removes it. With seemingly such an easy request, I find it mind boggling that they refuse to implement it.

Much like the other changes that were made and asked for ways to turn off. Options are bad it seems.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#956 - 2014-05-23 17:08:06 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Today's patch notes:
Added a couple of new options in the settings menu for controlling the tooltip display delay and the bracket list display delay

Is it possible to make that value zero would just remove transition effect? I mean tooltips will just appear and disappear instantly. Would be very nice.
Colman Dietmar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#957 - 2014-05-23 17:20:21 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is?


1) When cursor moves over different brackets accidently, the popup list tends to get re-generated, making its position and contents somewhat unpredictable and jumpy. In the old system, the list would cover or at least touch most of the brackets around what you pointed at, pulling all those icons into the list, thus making sure they all are accessible and not triggering subsequent list generation.

2) The popup list sometimes blocks access to brackets. In the old system, the icons beneath a list would be put into it, making sure everything remains accessible.

3) Since you've made the popup list have maximum width, there now needs to be an extra tooltip, which would show the full name of the list entry under the cursor.
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#958 - 2014-05-23 17:32:28 UTC
Colman Dietmar wrote:
3) Since you've made the popup list have maximum width, there now needs to be an extra tooltip, which would show the full name of the list entry under the cursor.

Lets add a skill which adds more tooltips
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/we_5ee8cf_287774.jpg
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#959 - 2014-05-23 19:40:21 UTC
Colman Dietmar wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is?


1) When cursor moves over different brackets accidently, the popup list tends to get re-generated, making its position and contents somewhat unpredictable and jumpy. In the old system, the list would cover or at least touch most of the brackets around what you pointed at, pulling all those icons into the list, thus making sure they all are accessible and not triggering subsequent list generation.

2) The popup list sometimes blocks access to brackets. In the old system, the icons beneath a list would be put into it, making sure everything remains accessible.

3) Since you've made the popup list have maximum width, there now needs to be an extra tooltip, which would show the full name of the list entry under the cursor.

I think I'm just going to repost this every day until CCP gets it.
If I remember, that is.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#960 - 2014-05-23 19:54:02 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Yes this information is very suited for tooltips thank you.

Why even have tooltips here at all? I can open the item description and attributes very easily by clicking the little white circle with an i in it for info. And don't even tell me that someone might not know to do that, because if you've figured out how to use fitting management to the point of getting to this page then you definitely already know how to access info on an item, and even if you don't it's still pretty obvious that you can access it by either right clicking -> Show Info, or clicking the white circle i. I think double clicking also works but I'm not sure.


But the main point is, do you even have any clue what tooltips are for? Certainly not for the presentation of FOUR PARAGRAPHS. That's just absurd.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)