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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

First post First post First post
Author
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#341 - 2014-05-18 22:36:05 UTC
Vivianne Athonille wrote:
I and a few others who Liked my post on Page 1 are still curious if you intend to allow "all" Command Ships to fit this MJD. And by "all" we mean the Industrial Command Ship -- Orca.

I believe you have been looking for ways to encourage players to put the Orca on-grid. Having this available as an escape tool may be a step in that direction.


I asked and got a negative on that one. Sorry, but at least you do have an answer. (And yes, I like flying an Orca now and again as well.)

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#342 - 2014-05-18 22:37:08 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
No.


Your logic and brevity stun me.

Sadly the argument contains nothing I feel obligated to kick up the ladder.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

ZecsMarquis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#343 - 2014-05-18 22:38:29 UTC
I've gotten 16 pages in and wanted to get my thoughts out before continuing. I have a couple added suggestions, some not quite as great as others.

If there is not a serious balance issue that I am aware of can we introduce that a focused T2 Hictor point stop a spool up as well as scrambler? I feel like this is an idea worth considering as the focused script only tackling supers is very niche and Hictor's as a whole are used for this purpose probably more than the actual bubbling. Though I know for wormholing it is more common.
The focused disruption script for the T2 module is what I mean if that sounds confusing.

Second idea: Introduce a Jump Disrupt Probe for the Interdiction Sphere Launcher (oldschool name dunno if its still called this) that stops all MJD spool ups or at least if it isnt already spooling it cannot be activated, similar to the warp if you initiate warp before a bubble goes down it basically negates it. I mention this idea as it gives more credibility to some earlier posts about the Dictor being more obsolete. Introduce an expanded launcher variant but it takes more fitting and even with crazy implants/rigs you can only fit one as opposed to the standard two launcher cloaky fit. Or give the role penalty of only one may be fitted as some other classes have for other modules.

Also final idea: maybe give the MJD similar mechanics of an acceleration gate. Once the spooling has started only a scrambler can deactivate as is now but if Hictor points it with its script the spooling continues but also prevents it from being activated like a scrambler if it is not already spooling. Just in case none of these were proposed in the thread or in internal discussions already I thought I'd take a whack at it.

Thoughts?
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#344 - 2014-05-18 22:41:46 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Just adding my voice to the haters. Seems to me that it just makes it too easy to get out of fights. It also trivializes the long point, the hics and dictors. As a low sec dweller, much of the combat starts on gates, basically this acts as a nerf on lowsec combat - getting in range fast enough to apply a scram is not going to be easy or fun. At the very least - it should be made so that two long points acts as a functional scram (since its two points of disruption) and the hic infinity point should be made to work again to stop the mjd.


+1

It is doubly true since fast tackle - inties, frigates - don't mix well with gate guns. Because of that, there is effectively no counter to this module that works in lowsec.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#345 - 2014-05-18 22:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Mike Azariah wrote:
Sadly the argument contains nothing I feel obligated to kick up the ladder.

That's fine, because I was replying to the people asking for RR stacking penalties. I've edited the post to make that clear.
If you want my comprehensive reply regarding MMJD it's on the previous page.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#346 - 2014-05-18 22:55:42 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts.

The Rules:
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.


34. Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

More often than not, posts of this nature are made with inflammatory intent and are designed to promote trolling and flaming. Therefore, the posting of links to kill reports from any third party site, or the direct copy-pasting of kill reports from in game is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online Forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#347 - 2014-05-18 23:04:51 UTC
I seriously disagree that we shouldn't post killboard links here. In balance discussions they can be quite helpful. I think CCP should revisit their rules in this case.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#348 - 2014-05-18 23:07:57 UTC
The MMJd will have the side effect, of bringing more BC into the field. Sure they will have the possibility to escape, but they do not need to escape if they are not there at all!
So more battlecruisers to Fight, more battlecruisers to be used in more space.

Sure fewer easy kills of new players who stray into dangerous space, but more use of them and more GF.

What's not to like?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#349 - 2014-05-18 23:14:05 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
Sadly the argument contains nothing I feel obligated to kick up the ladder.

That's fine, because I was replying to the people asking for RR stacking penalties. I've edited the post to make that clear.
If you want my comprehensive reply regarding MMJD it's on the previous page.


Please accept my apology. I take issue with one word posts but your earlier one was anything but that. That post was to the point and well done (regardless of whether I agree or not, I appreciate constructive arguments for and against a concept)

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#350 - 2014-05-18 23:38:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
I strongly feel that MJDs (both the existing ones and the new ones) should be recoded so that they are stopped by any targeted warp interdiction effect.

Warp scrams, warp disruptors and infinite points should all shut them down. I'm less concerned about bubbles.


This module will either be unused, or it is going to reduce fights in both lowsec and highsec. One way it's a harmless waste of development time, the other way it's actively bad for the game.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#351 - 2014-05-19 00:26:00 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
Sadly the argument contains nothing I feel obligated to kick up the ladder.

That's fine, because I was replying to the people asking for RR stacking penalties. I've edited the post to make that clear.
If you want my comprehensive reply regarding MMJD it's on the previous page.


Please accept my apology. I take issue with one word posts but your earlier one was anything but that. That post was to the point and well done (regardless of whether I agree or not, I appreciate constructive arguments for and against a concept)

m

You don't really need to apologize, it's not a big deal. But thank you anyways.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#352 - 2014-05-19 00:39:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There are definitely situations where Attack Battlecruisers in particular could become a problem with this module, and we will definitely be considering the option of leaving ABCs off the list for the initial release.


This. If they are going to be released, they should be a tool for getting combat BC's in to and out of the poo. Allowing Nado nano-MJD sniper gangs of extreme douchery is not a step toward a game where you avoid, and I quote, "everyone dies for minimal kills".
Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#353 - 2014-05-19 00:47:57 UTC
I'm actually all for this module. As a lowsec dweller I firmly believe this will add a world of fun and hopefully we'll get to see more BC's roaming around with this.

I had an interesting fight with a prophecy about 2 weeks ago. As a FW guy, it's normally frigs 23/7 (soon to be changing? Pirate) and seeing that BC means something interesting to kill. Myself and another guy tackled it in long range kitey frigs. It would have been a super slow, long helpless death but the Proph pilot made EvE fun again. He deployed a Mobile MJD unit, aligned to sun, turned at the last second and activated the spool up timer.

The fun and excitement trying to manage where's going and getting ready to try and catch him when he activated was fun. As we don't encounter the mobile units very often in a fight, it was a bit of confusion and chaos trying to decide whether or not to shoot the deployable which again added a lit more of the old EvE style of choices and varied game-play. After the guy successfully micro-jumped and then warped off to his safe, I applauded him in local for the creative escape.


So yes, this module will make getting away easier, but it also changes the dynamics of the game so that it doesn't always have to be EvE Online - Kiters edition. Should be fun and make brawling BC's a little more relevant.

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Franky Saken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#354 - 2014-05-19 01:03:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Franky Saken
Why are you not tweaking the distances and spool times and such?

This way it's only a run-away button which mostly hurts in solo and small gang kiting outfits where it just becomes: bring a lach.

If you do this to frigates at well (eventually) you could basically kill an entire subclass of flying.

I'd rather see something class-based where the numbers are based on optimal ranges of kiting variants of the classes and then tuning the spool up time so its something like (time to notice effect) * (average speed of ship + 2) so you have a second to notice and 1 or 2 seconds to respond to it.

If you do, say, 10 km for frigates, 20-30 km for cruisers, 50-75 km for bcs, and 100-150 km for bss then suddenly this module doesn't turn into a "get out anyways and if you want me to not do that enjoy being hard tackled and dead" but into an offensively usable module (as well as defensively) which is very skill and observation based (how fast can you see the effect spool up, how fast can you pick a direction to go in to avoid getting hard tackled).

Everything about this can be tuned of course but I just think it'd be way cooler. web/scram frigs can suddenly get that second option to get on top of a condor with their mjd if he isnt paying attention and just doing orbit-17-afk. Suddenly solo pilots that like to fly a stabber or a vaga or such (lol who even flies turret ships now in cruisers-online, game of projection) can be jumped on top of by a thorax.

If you put a 100km on bcs as well none of the cruisers is even going to be able to burn to them and repoint before they align. Please take ship classes and effective ranges into account so this doesnt just turn into a get-out-of-jail-free-card for armor bcs.
Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#355 - 2014-05-19 01:26:25 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Vivianne Athonille wrote:
I and a few others who Liked my post on Page 1 are still curious if you intend to allow "all" Command Ships to fit this MJD. And by "all" we mean the Industrial Command Ship -- Orca.

I believe you have been looking for ways to encourage players to put the Orca on-grid. Having this available as an escape tool may be a step in that direction.


I asked and got a negative on that one. Sorry, but at least you do have an answer. (And yes, I like flying an Orca now and again as well.)

m

Not exactly surprised. The Orca is such an odd fit when compared to other Command Ships, which is why I began advocating for a new breed to use in supporting Expedition (Prospect) operations. The "limited" availability of the MMJD just reinforces my current plans to use a different Command Ship in the near term.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#356 - 2014-05-19 01:35:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Vol Arm'OOO
Ines Tegator wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Just adding my voice to the haters. Seems to me that it just makes it too easy to get out of fights. It also trivializes the long point, the hics and dictors. As a low sec dweller, much of the combat starts on gates, basically this acts as a nerf on lowsec combat - getting in range fast enough to apply a scram is not going to be easy or fun. At the very least - it should be made so that two long points acts as a functional scram (since its two points of disruption) and the hic infinity point should be made to work again to stop the mjd.


+1

It is doubly true since fast tackle - inties, frigates - don't mix well with gate guns. Because of that, there is effectively no counter to this module that works in lowsec.


absolutely - lowsec just got boosted with the changes to gate guns and now its taking a major step backwards with small grps and solos really taking a hard shot to the nuts.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#357 - 2014-05-19 01:50:28 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Just adding my voice to the haters. Seems to me that it just makes it too easy to get out of fights. It also trivializes the long point, the hics and dictors. As a low sec dweller, much of the combat starts on gates, basically this acts as a nerf on lowsec combat - getting in range fast enough to apply a scram is not going to be easy or fun. At the very least - it should be made so that two long points acts as a functional scram (since its two points of disruption) and the hic infinity point should be made to work again to stop the mjd.


+1

It is doubly true since fast tackle - inties, frigates - don't mix well with gate guns. Because of that, there is effectively no counter to this module that works in lowsec.


absolutely - lowsec just got boosted with the changes to gate guns and now its taking a major step backwards with small grps and solos really taking a hard shot to the nuts.

Try a Proteus or Recon, or just logi on a Keres. Works just fine.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#358 - 2014-05-19 01:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Yun Kuai
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Just adding my voice to the haters. Seems to me that it just makes it too easy to get out of fights. It also trivializes the long point, the hics and dictors. As a low sec dweller, much of the combat starts on gates, basically this acts as a nerf on lowsec combat - getting in range fast enough to apply a scram is not going to be easy or fun. At the very least - it should be made so that two long points acts as a functional scram (since its two points of disruption) and the hic infinity point should be made to work again to stop the mjd.


+1

It is doubly true since fast tackle - inties, frigates - don't mix well with gate guns. Because of that, there is effectively no counter to this module that works in lowsec.


absolutely - lowsec just got boosted with the changes to gate guns and now its taking a major step backwards with small grps and solos really taking a hard shot to the nuts.



Why because you can no longer perma-tackle with your insert long point, snaked, and/or boosted insert annoying frig here against a brawler? Shame on you. No one is stopping you from committing to a fight like a brawler has to. Now the brawler has the same ability to disengage from the kiter when he knows he can't catch him.

EDIT: p.s. Bring a scram and all of your problems are solved. It's not like every ship in game minus a BS is faster than a BC or CS....

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Bosquit
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#359 - 2014-05-19 02:00:21 UTC
There needs to be more thought on this. Just copying the Battleship one and slapping it on Battlecruisers isn't going to work.
Without implementing more counters to the mod, it will create problems and force a meta of scramblers on people. In lowsec I agree that is could be a rather large problem, with gate guns and all.

Allowing Scrams, Disruptors, Infini points to stop this mod is probably a pretty decent balance point. It allows the mod to be used for positioning and allows for a lot of a fleet to use it as an escape module. The counter to it is essentially fleet skill of spreading points properly.

"Insert Philosophical Statement Here"

GreenSeed
#360 - 2014-05-19 02:00:44 UTC
this is a bad idea.

SP inflation is a huge problem in this game, currently most established alliances can fly CS doctrines... will people still insist on telling new players "get out of highec and go make a mark on null" when Absolutions and Astartes will completely annihilate any t1 doctrine? adding stuff like this new MJDs will make the problem even worse... i would NOT want to face off against a 50 man astarte or vulture fleet with this on. they can already decimate most t1 BS fleets, now they get even MORE mobility? this is bad...

i don't mind giving it to ABCs, i think its great. but on Command ships its just impossible to balance. a command ship that's boosting on grid would love to be able to hop around, and that would help a great deal on bringing the links on grid. but a combat fitted CS is way too powerful already.