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[Kronos] Mordu's Legion

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Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#761 - 2014-05-15 09:44:00 UTC
@ CCP Rise, a few people have suggested amending to slot layout but i haven't seen your reply yet...

Where do you stand on giving the battleship (and maybe the cruiser) and extra low slot in place of the utility high?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Anthar Thebess
#762 - 2014-05-15 10:20:03 UTC
Btw CCP.

Can we get now a missile based T1 Battle cruiser hull?
You changed the missiles, you created missile based pirate NPC faction.
But we still don't have missile based Battle Cruiser.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

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Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#763 - 2014-05-15 10:23:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Sweet Times wrote:
so lets compare 1 ship to the new faction frig THE CROW. same slot layout except for 1 rig

what has the crow ever done for me?

First it also has a long point...not as long but not enough difference to make a big deal .

It is another 25% extra range bonus added, so yeah that is quite a big deal actually.

Sweet Times wrote:
The crows base speed is faster ..(.what a kiting missile frig with a long point thats faster)

And that is about where it's advantage ends. It is marginally faster, but does half the dps with missiles that travel twice as slow and can only deliver kinetic damage, so that is it's Achilles heel. Also on top of that the PG and fitting options don't allow for a decent tank.

Now I am not saying the crow is bad, but just that there is some significant difference between the two.

And by the way, the Garmur is cap stable also with mwd and point running.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#764 - 2014-05-15 10:28:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mournful Conciousness
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
Another bonus is an option, but really I'd much prefer improvements to the Paper and Applied DPS, vs some new "special" trait.

Yes, I think the general consensus is that the Barghest could stand a slight increase in damage to 7.5% per level from 5%. If it had another low it would be a riot to armor tank it... I suppose you could make it work with 3 lows, but it would be a tight fit.


The barghest is already faster than a nano hurricane fleet issue, while being able to perma-tank 725dps (before links, crystals and blue pill) with a dual asb setup.

It can do this with heavy assault missile launchers fitted, giving 640dps unheated. I appreciate that this is not a lot of dps, the barghest has a supreme advantage - there are only a handful of ships in the game that can get it in scram range before getting themselves scrammed - e.g. proteus, arazu etc. Even then, the barghest has high mobility (234).

If the barghest pilot makes an error and overshoots on the initial stage of the fight, getting himself scrammed, he then has a problem of course because there is not enough room for a web to get himself out of trouble.

However, it still has a 817dps, very cap efficient tank courtesy of the ASBs.

In this situation the barghest will survive for a long time. It will of course destroy anything smaller than a battleship and may well destroy many buffer-fit battleships. Against a dedicated brawler like a hyperion or a vindicator it's probably got a problem - but it will still have some time to call for help.

It seems to me that the barghest offers:
1. awesome tackling ability
2. extreme maneverability
3. good staying power
4. clear superiority over anything smaller
5. well flown, it's always in control of the engagement.

If you give it an extra low slot it just gets faster.

Here's the fit.

1x Internal Force Field Array I
1x Co-Processor II
1x Overdrive Injector System II
2x Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
1x Nanofiber Internal Structure II

2x X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Navy 800s to ease management)
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster (Navy 800s)
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x 100MN Microwarpdrive II
1x Republic Fleet Warp Scrambler

7x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Nova)
1x Heavy Energy Neutralizer II (or Nosferatu if you prefer)

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Large Polycarbon Engine Housing II

5x Hammerhead II

stats: unheated:
dps: 640 (into opponents weakest hole)
speed: 1709
align time: 10.4
tank: 753 continuous (overheat only the active ASB)
scram: 15.8km

heated:
dps: 725
tank: 817
speed: 2446

with links, drugs and crystal implants:
tank: 2304
speed: 2981

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Anthar Thebess
#765 - 2014-05-15 10:29:32 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Sweet Times wrote:
so lets compare 1 ship to the new faction frig THE CROW. same slot layout except for 1 rig

what has the crow ever done for me?

First it also has a long point...not as long but not enough difference to make a big deal .

It is another 25% extra range bonus added, so yeah that is quite a big deal actually.

Sweet Times wrote:
The crows base speed is faster ..(.what a kiting missile frig with a long point thats faster)

And that is about where it's advantage ends. It is marginally faster, but does half the dps with missiles that travel twice as slow and can only deliver kinetic damage, so that is it's Achilles heel. Also on top of that the PG and fitting options don't allow for a decent tank.

Now I am not saying the crow is bad, but just that there is some significant difference between the two.

And by the way, the Garmur is cap stable also with mwd and point running.

Garmur is nullified?

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#766 - 2014-05-15 10:32:30 UTC
The nerd in me just showed his "enthusiasm", if you will, by...well, doing something very obscene. Needless to say, CCP just made him a very happy man.

+1!

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#767 - 2014-05-15 10:40:03 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
Another bonus is an option, but really I'd much prefer improvements to the Paper and Applied DPS, vs some new "special" trait.

Yes, I think the general consensus is that the Barghest could stand a slight increase in damage to 7.5% per level from 5%. If it had another low it would be a riot to armor tank it... I suppose you could make it work with 3 lows, but it would be a tight fit.


The barghest is already faster than a nano hurricane fleet issue, while being able to perma-tank 725dps (before links, crystals and blue pill) with a dual asb setup.

It can do this with heavy assault missile launchers fitted, giving 640dps unheated. I appreciate that this is not a lot of dps, the barghest has a supreme advantage - there are only a handful of ships in the game that can get it in scram range before getting themselves scrammed - e.g. proteus, arazu etc. Even then, the barghest has high mobility (234).

If the barghest pilot makes an error and overshoots on the initial stage of the fight, getting himself scrammed, he then has a problem of course because there is not enough room for a web to get himself out of trouble.

However, it still has a 817dps, very cap efficient tank courtesy of the ASBs.

In this situation the barghest will survive for a long time. It will of course destroy anything smaller than a battleship and may well destroy many buffer-fit battleships. Against a dedicated brawler like a hyperion or a vindicator it's probably got a problem - but it will still have some time to call for help.

It seems to me that the barghest offers:
1. awesome tackling ability
2. extreme maneverability
3. good staying power
4. clear superiority over anything smaller
5. well flown, it's always in control of the engagement.

If you give it an extra low slot it just gets faster.

Here's the fit.

1x Internal Force Field Array I
1x Co-Processor II
1x Overdrive Injector System II
2x Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
1x Nanofiber Internal Structure II

2x X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Navy 800s to ease management)
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster (Navy 800s)
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x 100MN Microwarpdrive II
1x Republic Fleet Warp Scrambler

7x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Nova)
1x Heavy Energy Neutralizer II (or Nosferatu if you prefer)

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Large Polycarbon Engine Housing II

5x Hammerhead II

stats: unheated:
dps: 640 (into opponents weakest hole)
speed: 1709
align time: 10.4
tank: 753 continuous (overheat only the active ASB)
scram: 15.8km

heated:
dps: 725
tank: 817
speed: 2446

with links, drugs and crystal implants:
tank: 2304
speed: 2981

Don't bother posting stats, people need it drilled into them by being podded countless times before they will understand it seems. ;)

Personally I think the fact that CCP Rise has gone for speed superiority on these ships which is the wrong way to go. They aren't based on Minmatar otherwise this would make more sense from a lore perspective. Also from a gameplay balance perspective it causes problems when combined with a long range point, and also seems a bit of a misfit for the BS in my opinion, I think the fit you posted will have limited use outside of niche application. (plus it looks like a slow lumbering aircraft carrier from the art concepts seen so far)

If I was CCP I'd increase the DPS on all the ship and reduce the speed to just under that of Serpentis ships.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#768 - 2014-05-15 11:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

If you give it an extra low slot it just gets faster.


If the battleship got an extra low slot, the base speed could be reduced.

I would say that if it doesn't get an extra low slot, it would need a damage increase but that would make the shield fit OP.

Tbh, i think the utility high should be removed and a low slot added... When you can scram a target from 20km and apply a heavy neut to it, there are very few ships in the game that can do anything but sit there and wait to die.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#769 - 2014-05-15 12:10:28 UTC  |  Edited by: ITTigerClawIK
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Btw CCP.

Can we get now a missile based T1 Battle cruiser hull?
You changed the missiles, you created missile based pirate NPC faction.
But we still don't have missile based Battle Cruiser.



.......ok ill bite

Drake/Navy Drake
Prophecy
Cyclone

all T1

all use missiles... ok the prophecy can use both guns and missiles, but it can still be a T1 missile BC

PS: still waiting on Khanid Armour tanking Torpedo Spewing BS :-P I WILL HAVE IT!!
Elisk Skyforge
State War Academy
#770 - 2014-05-15 12:14:34 UTC
So I updated my EFT with latest kronos update and fitted myself a Barghest. The dps was so low that Im ashamed to mention it here....again please fix this CCP, it needs one more launcher or better damage bonus.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#771 - 2014-05-15 12:19:39 UTC
Elisk Skyforge wrote:
So I updated my EFT with latest kronos update and fitted myself a Barghest. The dps was so low that Im ashamed to mention it here....again please fix this CCP, it needs one more launcher or better damage bonus.



one more launcher.. for symmetry :-P that and because the concept art says so
Anthar Thebess
#772 - 2014-05-15 12:38:21 UTC
ITTigerClawIK wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Btw CCP.

Can we get now a missile based T1 Battle cruiser hull?
You changed the missiles, you created missile based pirate NPC faction.
But we still don't have missile based Battle Cruiser.



.......ok ill bite

Drake/Navy Drake
Prophecy
Cyclone

all T1

all use missiles... ok the prophecy can use both guns and missiles, but it can still be a T1 missile BC

PS: still waiting on Khanid Armour tanking Torpedo Spewing BS :-P I WILL HAVE IT!!


Sorry my mistake

Tier 3 Missile Battlecruiser :)
We have :
- Naga/Talos : Hybrid Guns
- Oracle : Lasers
- Tornado : Projectiles

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#773 - 2014-05-15 12:42:56 UTC
ITTigerClawIK wrote:
PS: still waiting on Khanid Armour tanking Torpedo Spewing BS :-P I WILL HAVE IT!!


Get in line - You're not the only one waiting on cool ships...

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#774 - 2014-05-15 13:11:59 UTC
Elisk Skyforge wrote:
So I updated my EFT with latest kronos update and fitted myself a Barghest. The dps was so low that Im ashamed to mention it here....again please fix this CCP, it needs one more launcher or better damage bonus.


I'm thinking you musy have forgotten to select the "all V" character.
try putting 4 T2 ballistics and a T2 bay loading accelerator on it.

You then get ~1200dps with cruise (any range, and damage type)
and
~1500dps with torpedoes (25km, any damage type).

That's before overheat.

How is this in any way "low"?

Given the ship's speed and point range it's hilariously high!

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#775 - 2014-05-15 13:16:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Barton Breau
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Elisk Skyforge wrote:
So I updated my EFT with latest kronos update and fitted myself a Barghest. The dps was so low that Im ashamed to mention it here....again please fix this CCP, it needs one more launcher or better damage bonus.


I'm thinking you musy have forgotten to select the "all V" character.
try putting 4 T2 ballistics and a T2 bay loading accelerator on it.

You then get ~1200dps with cruise (any range, and damage type)
and
~1500dps with torpedoes (25km, any damage type).

That's before overheat.

How is this in any way "low"?

Given the ship's speed and point range it's hilariously high!


Against what kind of target? A titan? :)

And for some reason me coputah says 1160dps with 4x cnbcs and 2 x 5% implant.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#776 - 2014-05-15 13:33:34 UTC
7x cruise missile launcher (Nova Fury Cruise Missiles)
4x Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
1x Large Bay Loading Accelerator II

No implants

No drone

1101 dps

with drone (1x gecko) : 1224dps

with 5% implants: 1340dps

overheat: 1555dps

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#777 - 2014-05-15 13:35:44 UTC
It actually two shots an active Deimos with navy nova, torps and a webscrampaint combo. Given you got a standard crash up.

To weak?
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#778 - 2014-05-15 13:37:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
7x cruise missile launcher (Nova Fury Cruise Missiles)
4x Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
1x Large Bay Loading Accelerator II

No implants

No drone

1101 dps

with drone (1x gecko) : 1224dps

with 5% implants: 1340dps

overheat: 1555dps

That dps is average I'd suggest for a pirate BS, considering you used 4 slots and a rig slot to achieve it. Plus Cruise (Fury) missiles aren't going to be doing their full dps to many targets. Also Gecko's are getting a dps nerf.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#779 - 2014-05-15 13:41:31 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
7x cruise missile launcher (Nova Fury Cruise Missiles)
4x Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
1x Large Bay Loading Accelerator II

No implants

No drone

1101 dps

with drone (1x gecko) : 1224dps

with 5% implants: 1340dps

overheat: 1555dps

That dps is average I'd suggest for a pirate BS, considering you used 4 slots and a rig slot to achieve it. Plus Cruise (Fury) missiles aren't going to be doing their full dps to many targets. Also Gecko's are getting a dps nerf.


First of all, given the ship never has to expose itself to warp disruption, it's epic dps because it's free of risk.

Second, since the cruise missile buf last year, cruise missiles deliver damage extremely well.

If you're talking about a PVE use of the ship, I'm not interested.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#780 - 2014-05-15 13:58:50 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
7x cruise missile launcher (Nova Fury Cruise Missiles)
4x Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
1x Large Bay Loading Accelerator II

No implants

No drone

1101 dps

with drone (1x gecko) : 1224dps

with 5% implants: 1340dps

overheat: 1555dps

That dps is average I'd suggest for a pirate BS, considering you used 4 slots and a rig slot to achieve it. Plus Cruise (Fury) missiles aren't going to be doing their full dps to many targets. Also Gecko's are getting a dps nerf.


Agreed and i doubt many people actually fit their ships like this. I could fit a vindicator to do 2000 dps but i don't because i would have to make too many compromises.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...