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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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Beofryn Sedorak
#3701 - 2014-04-27 23:57:29 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
I still do not understand why EVE / Dust integration is not further developed.


Everything you need to know about CCP's efforts (As far as they've shared with us thus far) in merging the economies and why it's taking some time to do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pzODp6-hO8

The most recent information on the progress of EVE / Dust link via game mechanics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40zjfBk5vEE
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3702 - 2014-04-27 23:58:58 UTC
You need ground shaking stuff at this point:

- WiS as walk in Station, Structure and Spaceship with aggression and ability to kill with a gun or knife
- Ship paint workshop like the character one
- Serious change to hangars: they need to be walkable, good looking and hold all my ships at the same time
- Serious DUST integration to the point that all current EVE players can play DUST on PC without having to switch to another game
- New type of missions that are either DUST related or WiS related

And then if CCP is really into Oculus, then adapt the whole of EVE to be used the with the FB device, preferably an alternative one.

Those are my 2 cents..
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3703 - 2014-04-28 00:33:00 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
You need ground shaking stuff at this point:

- WiS as walk in Station, Structure and Spaceship with aggression and ability to kill with a gun or knife
- Ship paint workshop like the character one
- Serious change to hangars: they need to be walkable, good looking and hold all my ships at the same time
- Serious DUST integration to the point that all current EVE players can play DUST on PC without having to switch to another game
- New type of missions that are either DUST related or WiS related

And then if CCP is really into Oculus, then adapt the whole of EVE to be used the with the FB device, preferably an alternative one.

Those are my 2 cents..

Check the quote in my sig. CCP isn't going to ignore real EVE content to cater to roleplayers again.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Beofryn Sedorak
#3704 - 2014-04-28 00:48:11 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Check the quote in my sig. CCP isn't going to ignore real EVE content to cater to roleplayers again.


The quote in your sig is based off of WiS being a direct portion of the EVE experience, it doesn't exclude it from being developed as a companion product.

Additionally, regardless of which Dev said something on the spot outside of an official statement, corporate strategy is never set in stone,
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#3705 - 2014-04-28 01:05:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Ubat Batuk wrote:


It's unbelievable how people think. No problem, I am happy to wait for other games to come out and then CCP will change their mind in regard to WiS. When the cash shrinks cause people drop EVE for some other subscription title, things will change. I can see the future. I doubt that Valkyrie will be cash generating, as only a bunch of people can afford to pay for the FaceBook goggles, so that is going to be another failure in vision and overall strategy. I still do not understand why EVE / Dust integration is not further developed and why Dust is not a module of EVE online on PC. Now I fly a ship, and now I decide to clone jump to a planet to fight, it's that simple. Sorry for the rant but I care abopt EVE and I am upset by seeing people who are too short sighted.

Short sighted HAH! You think it's that simple to just slap Dust into EVE and call it a day? Sorry, but that's just an unedumacated view there you posted.

Personally I'd rather they just rip WiS out of the game entirely and drop in Dust all together, at least a PC version of it more in the mmo style. But even that is too much dev time and would rot the actual internet spaceship game which this game features. Excuse me if my SWG pre-NGE roots are bleeding though hehe. But even in the development of SWG:JTLS they had horrible obstacles with integration (according to their devs and why it was delayed to a later expansion).

But if you like Dust, well then play Dust, it's there. Meanwhile EVE, which has significantly improved regardless of WiS, still has development cycles to reach, many fix-it/maintenance milestones to conquer. It's not an endless fix-it plan, that would actually be short sighted as far as actual development procedure goes. Read up on ISO/IEC 12207 standards and become less "upset". You may think that you can see the future, but you are unaware of the present and how things operate in the software development field.

Beofryn Sedorak wrote:
Additionally, regardless of which Dev said something on the spot outside of an official statement, corporate strategy is never set in stone,
Yes it is, it's sometimes well documented years in advance.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#3706 - 2014-04-28 01:10:33 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:


It's unbelievable how people think. No problem, I am happy to wait for other games to come out and then CCP will change their mind in regard to WiS. When the cash shrinks cause people drop EVE for some other subscription title, things will change. I can see the future. I doubt that Valkyrie will be cash generating, as only a bunch of people can afford to pay for the FaceBook goggles, so that is going to be another failure in vision and overall strategy. I still do not understand why EVE / Dust integration is not further developed and why Dust is not a module of EVE online on PC. Now I fly a ship, and now I decide to clone jump to a planet to fight, it's that simple. Sorry for the rant but I care abopt EVE and I am upset by seeing people who are too short sighted.

Short sighted HAH! You think it's that simple to just slap Dust into EVE and call it a day? Sorry, but that's just an unedumacated view there you posted.

Personally I'd rather they just rip WiS out of the game entirely and drop in Dust all together, at least a PC version of it more in the mmo style. But even that is too much dev time and would rot the actual internet spaceship game which this game features. Excuse me if my SWG pre-NGE roots are bleeding though hehe.

But if you like Dust, well then play Dust, it's there. Meanwhile EVE, which has significantly improved regardless of WiS, still has development cycles to reach, many fix-it/maintenance milestones to conquer. It's not an endless fix-it plan, that would actually be short sighted as far as actual development procedure goes. Read up on ISO/IEC 12207 standards and become less "upset". You may think that you can see the future, but you are unaware of the present and how things operate in the software development field.



Nothing is impossible for the man who does not have to do it himself.


☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3707 - 2014-04-28 01:13:18 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
You need ground shaking stuff at this point:

- WiS as walk in Station, Structure and Spaceship with aggression and ability to kill with a gun or knife
- Ship paint workshop like the character one
- Serious change to hangars: they need to be walkable, good looking and hold all my ships at the same time
- Serious DUST integration to the point that all current EVE players can play DUST on PC without having to switch to another game
- New type of missions that are either DUST related or WiS related

And then if CCP is really into Oculus, then adapt the whole of EVE to be used the with the FB device, preferably an alternative one.

Those are my 2 cents..

Check the quote in my sig. CCP isn't going to ignore real EVE content to cater to roleplayers again.


That's not what I have learnt from the beginning, that in fact EVE wanted to be a science fiction game that goes beyond space ships.

Here is an extract from an article released some time back:

"Most interestingly, Olafsson touched on the potential for the avatar component of Eve Online. Players may one day be able to leave their spacecraft and explore valuable ruins that populate the universe. These will not be closed instances, and Eve's critical sense of danger at all times will prevail. A typically bombastic visionary trailer outlining the future of the game was used to close the ceremony"

Link to article...
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-24-ccp-presents-its-vision-of-the-future-for-eve-online-and-dust-514
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#3708 - 2014-04-28 01:17:22 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:



Nothing is impossible for the man who does not have to do it himself.
You mean the difficulty of it? Oh heck yeah. It's almost miraculous that EVE works at all.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Beofryn Sedorak
#3709 - 2014-04-28 01:24:07 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Yes it is, it's sometimes well documented years in advance.


Until something changes, and everything gets re-strategized.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#3710 - 2014-04-28 02:07:26 UTC
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Yes it is, it's sometimes well documented years in advance.


Until something changes, and everything gets re-strategized.

No, the only time this has seemed to have happened was over the summer of rage. And also with a shift of positions.
I'm not expecting any winter of rage for WiS anytime soon...
Google up the ISO/IEC standards I mentioned, that's pretty common practice. Of course CCP is a large developer compared to many, deploying many different teams into the project, but they still operate by a development standard such as that, if not that exclusively. Probably a minimum of hard documentation on a one year cycle (maybe two), and more rough documents beyond that which would be more likely to see current community requests that haven't been added to the current development cycles. And even some of the current work probably being pushed back by R&D into later cycles. Yeah, nobody operates by a whim.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Beofryn Sedorak
#3711 - 2014-04-28 02:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Beofryn Sedorak
Webvan wrote:
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Yes it is, it's sometimes well documented years in advance.


Until something changes, and everything gets re-strategized.

No, the only time this has seemed to have happened was over the summer of rage. And also with a shift of positions.
I'm not expecting any winter of rage for WiS anytime soon...
Google up the ISO/IEC standards I mentioned, that's pretty common practice. Of course CCP is a large developer compared to many, deploying many different teams into the project, but they still operate by a development standard such as that, if not that exclusively. Probably a minimum of hard documentation on a one year cycle (maybe two), and more rough documents beyond that which would be more likely to see current community requests that haven't been added to the current development cycles. And even some of the current work probably being pushed back by R&D into later cycles. Yeah, nobody operates by a whim.


1) CCP has such an excellent track record of not changing their development plans.

2) Your argument is the inverse of "Things aren't set in stone" meaning no chance of them changing. Then you go and say "They won't change unless X" You've already proven yourself wrong. Thank you.

3) "Yeah, nobody operates by a whim." BWAAAAHAHAH, heh, That's a good one, I really tried to write a serious response to that, But I just couldn't take it seriously after such a poorly thought out response.

4) I'm sure CCP has mountains of documentation on incarna game play and I'm quite sure they have a contingency plan in place should they decide to dive into that genre of game play again.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#3712 - 2014-04-28 02:37:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:


1) CCP has such an excellent track record of not changing their development plans.

2) Your argument is the inverse of "Things aren't set in stone" meaning no chance of them changing. Then you go and say "They won't change unless X" You've already proven yourself wrong. Thank you.

3) "Yeah, nobody operates by a whim." BWAAAAHAHAH, heh, That's a good one, I really tried to write a serious response to that, But I just couldn't take it seriously after such a poorly thought out response.

So you think it's good when a company needs to shed jobs to change their development strategy? CCP took a hit after the summer of rage, it's not some sort of normal development cycle shift. That that's somehow just normal operational procedure? You don't know what goes on behind closed doors, and your guess is pretty poor without understanding how the process works which would give you at least the slightest idea. You can't just make major changes like that without negative repercussions to your product; the confusion and delays that follow would rip your company apart if it became a constant.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Beofryn Sedorak
#3713 - 2014-04-28 02:46:29 UTC
Webvan wrote:
So you think it's good when a company needs to shed jobs to change their development strategy? CCP took a hit after the summer of rage, it's not some sort of normal development cycle shift. That that's somehow just normal operational procedure? You don't know what goes on behind closed doors, and your guess is pretty poor without understanding how the process works which would give you at least the slightest idea. You can't just make major changes like that without negative repercussions to your product; the confusion and delays that follow would rip your company apart if it became a constant.


Appended a 4th item to my previous post.

I'm not sure why you're arguing whether it's good or not. This isn't a debate about correct and incorrect, It's a debate about possibilities. no one's implying that an abrupt transition back into developing Avatar game play based off of WiS concepts would be "normal", But as Valkyrie proves, Sometimes the time is just right and you need to grab it by the throat. But even more importantly, As you already stated yourself, None of us have first hand knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors. So if CCP did have plans to develop an additional product based on WiS gameplay, it could very well have been set in motion already leaving plenty of time to satisfy your argument of a 1 year dev cycle. Not to mention that whenever the shift back to WiS content happened, There would be plenty of time for a 1 year cycle. Provided that existence as we know it doesn't end. There are so many holes in your logic that I don't care to point them all out.

The bottom line is, You shouldn't be so sure of your standpoint when there's so many ways it could be wrong. You've taken the stance of "Beyond a shadow of a doubt" requiring you to prove that there's "no way it could happen", I only needed to prove 1 way it could happen for you to be wrong, Which you so graciously did all by yourself without any of my multitude of examples.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#3714 - 2014-04-28 03:05:22 UTC
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:
But even more importantly, As you already stated yourself, None of us have first hand knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors. So if
That's out of context of what I said, and clearly you know that. If you ever do as I suggest, you will have understanding of what is going on behind those closed doors, in time, an educated guess, as apposed to knowing nothing as your posts on the matter clearly communicate. Your 'what if's' don't really fit through the door, just like the one saying she knows the future. CCP may have their problems, but they have shown themselves smarter than that, and function as developers typically do, or maybe even more so transparent than most.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Flamespar
WarRavens
#3715 - 2014-04-28 03:08:48 UTC
Honestly anyone who thinks the layoffs were sorely due to Incarna needs to do better research and stop blindly following what some other whining players have said.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3716 - 2014-04-28 03:20:57 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
You need ground shaking stuff at this point:

- WiS as walk in Station, Structure and Spaceship with aggression and ability to kill with a gun or knife
- Ship paint workshop like the character one
- Serious change to hangars: they need to be walkable, good looking and hold all my ships at the same time
- Serious DUST integration to the point that all current EVE players can play DUST on PC without having to switch to another game
- New type of missions that are either DUST related or WiS related

And then if CCP is really into Oculus, then adapt the whole of EVE to be used the with the FB device, preferably an alternative one.

Those are my 2 cents..

Check the quote in my sig. CCP isn't going to ignore real EVE content to cater to roleplayers again.


That's not what I have learnt from the beginning, that in fact EVE wanted to be a science fiction game that goes beyond space ships.

Here is an extract from an article released some time back:

"Most interestingly, Olafsson touched on the potential for the avatar component of Eve Online. Players may one day be able to leave their spacecraft and explore valuable ruins that populate the universe. These will not be closed instances, and Eve's critical sense of danger at all times will prevail. A typically bombastic visionary trailer outlining the future of the game was used to close the ceremony"

Link to article...
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-24-ccp-presents-its-vision-of-the-future-for-eve-online-and-dust-514

That quote is old. CCP has since regained sanity and promised to focus on real Eve content.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#3717 - 2014-04-28 03:22:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Flamespar wrote:
Honestly anyone who thinks the layoffs were sorely due to Incarna needs to do better research and stop blindly following what some other whining players have said.

Who claimed that? I don't see anyone saying that except by people trying to discredit those that favor the internet spaceship game over dreams of WiS. Use of poor forum trolling tactics 0/10. Even poor usage in psychology/counter-psychology. #ThrowTheBabyOutWithTheBathWater

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Beofryn Sedorak
#3718 - 2014-04-28 03:23:16 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:
But even more importantly, As you already stated yourself, None of us have first hand knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors. So if
That's out of context of what I said, and clearly you know that. If you ever do as I suggest, you will have understanding of what is going on behind those closed doors, in time, an educated guess, as apposed to knowing nothing as your posts on the matter clearly communicate. Your 'what if's' don't really fit through the door, just like the one saying she knows the future. CCP may have their problems, but they have shown themselves smarter than that, and function as developers typically do, or maybe even more so transparent than most.


The context of your usage is irrelevant to the accuracy of the statement in other context.

As with any good corporation, CCP almost certainly has concepts, strategy's and/or R&D projects we very intentionally have no knowledge of. After the fallout of the first attempt at Incarna, CCP would be very cautious to discuss any hopes, Strategies or plans with anyone not under heavy NDA as to protect their image and reputation. To neglect such a plausible scenario is foolish and short sighted. To concede that you are capable of developing educated guesses as to every single strategy a company has both planned and side lined and what they intend to do with them is more of the same.
Beofryn Sedorak
#3719 - 2014-04-28 03:28:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Beofryn Sedorak
Rhes wrote:
That quote is old. CCP has since regained sanity and promised to focus on real Eve content.


Similar vision being presented end of last October.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dRlgzE_7FI
Flamespar
WarRavens
#3720 - 2014-04-28 05:15:21 UTC
Anyone see the pilot suits on the cover of the fanfest schedule? Some cool looking scifi stuff there.