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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#341 - 2014-04-08 09:01:56 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
I love how most everyone here has completely glossed over talking about the ninja'd 25% damage buff the phantasm is getting. It didn't drop any guns. Love it love it. <3
The damage was not nerfed, look at the newly enhanced role bonus.

Edit: misread the post, though it's not being buffed either by my math:
3*2.5 = 7.5 effective turrets
Vs
3*2*1.25 = 7.5 effective turrets


They rolled the 5% damage per level bonus where the AB is now on top of the original 100% dmg bonus, and added 25% more damage on top of that without removing any guns for free without any offset. It's a buff.

Learn to do maths.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#342 - 2014-04-08 09:05:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
And Naomi misses the point again.

Apparently it's "Grr, Blasters!" in here tonight. Yeah, it can deal about a thousand. But when you say things like "has no problem applying it", that's just bullshit.

Range is part of damage application. It's got, what? 2.5km optimal, *maybe* 8km falloff?

Stop being such an EFT warrior, and look at the ship in the game, with real scenarios, not on paper.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

seth Hendar
I love you miners
#343 - 2014-04-08 09:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
CCP Rise wrote:

VIGILANT

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff

Minmatar Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness

Role Bonus:

75% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage


Slot layout: 5H, 4M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 1050 PWG(-150), 360 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2175 / 2500(+175) / 2625
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1545 / 490000 (-1250) / 3.15
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 242(+36) / .48 / 9830000 / 6.54s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 49km(+14km) / 300 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 130

========================================================================================

CYNABAL

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff

Minmatar Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire


Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 820 PWG(-280), 335 CPU(-15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2330 / 2300(-25) / 2065
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1415 / 490000(-1250) / 2.88
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 263(+6) / .45(-.0045) / 9047000(+200000) / 5.64s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47km(+2km) / 390(-33) / 7
Sensor strength: 18(+2)
Signature radius: 115(+5)

Look forward to hearing from you o/

so these two ships have already pg/capacitor issue, so lets get them even less, so we are sure to doom them.

when i saw the changes for the frigs, i was only hopping one thing, that you didn't put your dirty fingers on the cruisers and BS.

and this is why i was hopping this, good job, keep ruining the game, i can't wait to see what you will do to the mach and vindiRoll
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#344 - 2014-04-08 09:18:30 UTC
Don't you think that the drone navigation computer could upgrade the drones orbit speed also?
Perharps with a script to change between drone warp speed and orbit warp speed.....

That would change lot of things for the Gila...

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.

Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#345 - 2014-04-08 09:24:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And Naomi misses the point again.

Apparently it's "Grr, Blasters!" in here tonight. Yeah, it can deal about a thousand. But when you say things like "has no problem applying it", that's just bullshit.

Range is part of damage application. It's got, what? 2.5km optimal, *maybe* 8km falloff?

Stop being such an EFT warrior, and look at the ship in the game, with real scenarios, not on paper.

Naomi and a few others talk with no experience. Probably just FW scrubs flying epic solo frigate battles and then coming on here making terrible suggestions. Anyone who says any blaster ship has no problem applying its dps really has no clue.

I'm not sure about the Vigilant and the Cynabel, but to me it seems the complaints are reasonable. I wouldn't be surprised if Rise is currently quickly re-doing the Cynabel right now as it seems he hasn't thought that one through.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#346 - 2014-04-08 09:25:02 UTC
[quote=Catherine Laartii]-The Vigilant, and all the other Serpentis ships for that matter, should get the AB bonus you're currently proposing with Sansha and have it swapped out with the falloff bonus, since they generally fight at spitting distance anyway./quote]

90% webs, very high damage for the class and an AB bonus? That's a terrible terrible idea.

Whilst I'm not going to suggest the current Vigilant powergrid changes are great, that combo would be massively ********.
Naomi Anthar
#347 - 2014-04-08 09:25:22 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And Naomi misses the point again.

Apparently it's "Grr, Blasters!" in here tonight. Yeah, it can deal about a thousand. But when you say things like "has no problem applying it", that's just bullshit.

Range is part of damage application. It's got, what? 2.5km optimal, *maybe* 8km falloff?

Stop being such an EFT warrior, and look at the ship in the game, with real scenarios, not on paper.


Actually i undock ships. Sorry but i do. And not to fight asteroids on belts.

Real scenario tells me vigilant got no problem to get into 2.5km optimal in no time.

Also i had pleasure to fight linked Rail Vigilants - oh trust me it's real pleasure. We are not speaking about 2.5km range now.

I fully support your statement that "Range is part of damage application" - and there is no better cruiser in game to dictate range than Vigilant. Yes even poor recons are outclassed in thier own stuff by this "ship without utility". Thanks for actually supporting my claims.

And even with blasters - it actually does not have that horrible range - especially with null (still not bad dps on top of that ) . It's not like it does not have falloff bonus. But why use null when you can void your opponent into oblivion after rendering it immobile.

It's not complaining about blasters. Blasters are ok for what they do. But once you make blaster dps unavoidable ... then we got some problem.


And you know what ? I don't even mind if vigilant stays completly how it is now ... i mind other thing - that people like you think it's not broken op. Because at the end of the day - i can just fly my own vigilant and enjoy broken opness. Point is i would love to see some sort of sane balance in this game.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#348 - 2014-04-08 09:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And Naomi misses the point again.

Apparently it's "Grr, Blasters!" in here tonight. Yeah, it can deal about a thousand. But when you say things like "has no problem applying it", that's just bullshit.

Range is part of damage application. It's got, what? 2.5km optimal, *maybe* 8km falloff?

Stop being such an EFT warrior, and look at the ship in the game, with real scenarios, not on paper.


Actually i undock ships. Sorry but i do. And not to fight asteroids on belts.

Real scenario tells me vigilant got no problem to get into 2.5km optimal in no time.

Also i had pleasure to fight linked Rail Vigilants - oh trust me it's real pleasure. We are not speaking about 2.5km range now.

I fully support your statement that "Range is part of damage application" - and there is no better cruiser in game to dictate range than Vigilant. Yes even poor recons are outclassed in thier own stuff by this "ship without utility". Thanks for actually supporting my claims.

And even with blasters - it actually does not have that horrible range - especially with null (still not bad dps on top of that ) . It's not like it does not have falloff bonus. But why use null when you can void your opponent into oblivion after rendering it immobile.

It's not complaining about blasters. Blasters are ok for what they do. But once you make blaster dps unavoidable ... then we got some problem.


And you know what ? I don't even mind if vigilant stays completly how it is now ... i mind other thing - that people like you think it's not broken op. Because at the end of the day - i can just fly my own vigilant and enjoy broken opness. Point is i would love to see some sort of sane balance in this game.

well, the natural counter to vigilant exist, or used to, before it was nerfed to oblivion (cynabal).

also, there are plenty of cruiser able to 1v1 vigilant since they got rebalanced, if you can't find wich, well.......you don't even deserve the right to start the game

the vigilant is strong when it is able to scram + web you, stay outside of this death radius, and it is toast
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#349 - 2014-04-08 09:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
So -150 PG on the Vigilant.

Well so much for the Neutron Blaster/10MWD/1600 plated Vigilant.

That fit already needed some pimping to get it fit like that and I have perfect skills for it.

This is now another ship I need to sell because of your ******** changes. Nerf the bloody web bones like you did with the bloody Kronos (which I also Sold) but for gods sake leave that PG alone.

What next? You going to remove my ability to fit HAM Launchers on my Legion. I get the feeling your idiot liking for shield fitted ships is influencing your changes. I am starting to get the feeling that you have something against those that prefer Armor over shield fits.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#350 - 2014-04-08 09:37:10 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
4. not incredible fast ? Not slow either. With 2x 90% webs you should not have problem to dictate range vs even fastest ships in this game. And it's getting faster in this rebalance ....


Assuming you start in range of webs. If you don't, all that percentage means nothing, a Stabber will tear it apart piece by piece, orbiting outside its web range. That's what Serpentis is about - in-your-face, blaster wielding short range overlords. However, have it face a kiting ship and they'll have a big problem.

Of the above ships, do you know which one I think will be the most powerful? Gila. Don't believe me? Let's talk again in a few months.
Sgt EVE
Garage Bagage
#351 - 2014-04-08 09:37:52 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:

The Guristas line are the only shield tanked drone boats...why are you doing this experimental "specific drones only" nerfing to them, when there are several armor drone boats to do it to that still leave people with some choices?


thats a good point ! don´t kill the drone flexibility of the only shield tanked drone boats.
the perfect ships for this "specific drones only" experiment are the serpentis.

the serpentis ships should be close range dps platforms.
but there are serveral problems with the stats
the 90% web bonus to keep the enemy at close range is too strong
the tank is too weak because it needs time to get in close range ( especially with the PG nerf )
the cap is too low ( 5 blaster, AB or MWD, point + web = unstable and neut/nos victim especially with the nos buff )

the new gila would be a better close range dps platforms than the vigilant while still having more tank and more cap.
this makes no sense.

Vigilant:

Gallente Cruiser: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage

Minmatar Cruiser: 7,5% bonus to Stasis Webifier range and effectivness

Role bonus: 100% bonus to Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage
Kmelx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#352 - 2014-04-08 09:48:07 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
4. not incredible fast ? Not slow either. With 2x 90% webs you should not have problem to dictate range vs even fastest ships in this game. And it's getting faster in this rebalance ....


Assuming you start in range of webs. If you don't, all that percentage means nothing, a Stabber will tear it apart piece by piece, orbiting outside its web range. That's what Serpentis is about - in-your-face, blaster wielding short range overlords. However, have it face a kiting ship and they'll have a big problem.


If you can't get a vigi into web range of a stabber you are terrible and should not be flying the ship.
NetheranE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#353 - 2014-04-08 09:48:15 UTC
Sgt EVE wrote:
[quote=Chris Winter]
*snipped*

Vigilant:

Gallente Cruiser: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage

Minmatar Cruiser: 7,5% bonus to Stasis Webifier range and effectivness

Role bonus: 100% bonus to Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage

lolwut

You cant be serious right? Shocked
SubStandard Rin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#354 - 2014-04-08 09:52:32 UTC
NetheranE wrote:
You know there are multiple form of stacking penalties and there is a max-percentage scaling as well that enables two 90% webs to not reduce your speed that indefinitely?

Its not a shame the Gila cant use sentries, that's what an Ishtar is for. Train for one.

At least you were right about the Cynabal.



on the webbing bonuses I was only aware of the following formula
S(n) = 0.5^[((n-1) / 2.22292081) ^2] (stacking penalty 100% first module 87% second module etc)

V = V0 * (100% - S)

v0 = webbing slowing speed
s = ship speed

it still comes true as with stacking penalties we end up with

so lets do some real math to show you what im saying.


3000 * (1-0.9) * (1-0.9*0.87) = 65.1 m/s ( or 3minutes and 50s ) as I said 4minutes to reach gate.


65.1 / 3000 = 2.17% roughly 2%

I can use the Ishtars perfectly fine. please refrain your self from trolling.


seth Hendar
I love you miners
#355 - 2014-04-08 09:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Kmelx wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
4. not incredible fast ? Not slow either. With 2x 90% webs you should not have problem to dictate range vs even fastest ships in this game. And it's getting faster in this rebalance ....


Assuming you start in range of webs. If you don't, all that percentage means nothing, a Stabber will tear it apart piece by piece, orbiting outside its web range. That's what Serpentis is about - in-your-face, blaster wielding short range overlords. However, have it face a kiting ship and they'll have a big problem.


If you can't get a vigi into web range of a stabber you are terrible and should not be flying the ship.

if you can't manage to avoid being webbed by a vigilant flying a stabber you are terrible.

by the time he locks you, you already are outside of his scramm / web range, if not, you were sleeping afk at your keyboard, and deserve to die

same goes for stabber, stabber fleet, cynabal, scythe fleet, vaga, caracal (all variants)......
Naomi Anthar
#356 - 2014-04-08 09:54:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Anthar
Kmelx wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
4. not incredible fast ? Not slow either. With 2x 90% webs you should not have problem to dictate range vs even fastest ships in this game. And it's getting faster in this rebalance ....


Assuming you start in range of webs. If you don't, all that percentage means nothing, a Stabber will tear it apart piece by piece, orbiting outside its web range. That's what Serpentis is about - in-your-face, blaster wielding short range overlords. However, have it face a kiting ship and they'll have a big problem.


If you can't get a vigi into web range of a stabber you are terrible and should not be flying the ship.


What he said ... Like it's 18.2 web range without links. And lets of course assume vigilant is not rail. Let's assume also stabber will break Vigilant tank before it will run out of cap with mwding around. Of course it will break it's tank with massive dps from barrage from 20km and more (because under 20km ... you know what happens).

And you guys tell me i speak from EFT perspective. Actually i did fight vigilant in my stabber more than once. He webbed me easily from 20km + he was also rail fit in first place.

But i bet you can show me tons of killmails of vigilants who have fallen to your mighty solo stabbers.

Edit . Indeed mighty pvpers we got there who avoid 20km + webs with 24km point stabber easily breaking vigilant 50k ehp. Of course with mighty barrage and without running out of cap for mwd. hell i'm so bad at this game.
If you told me it was Cyna with faction point i could even buy this bullshit , but that simply made me laugh - thank you for this ;).
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#357 - 2014-04-08 10:06:56 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Kmelx wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
4. not incredible fast ? Not slow either. With 2x 90% webs you should not have problem to dictate range vs even fastest ships in this game. And it's getting faster in this rebalance ....


Assuming you start in range of webs. If you don't, all that percentage means nothing, a Stabber will tear it apart piece by piece, orbiting outside its web range. That's what Serpentis is about - in-your-face, blaster wielding short range overlords. However, have it face a kiting ship and they'll have a big problem.


If you can't get a vigi into web range of a stabber you are terrible and should not be flying the ship.


What he said ... Like it's 18.2 web range without links. And lets of course assume vigilant is not rail. Let's assume also stabber will break Vigilant tank before it will run out of cap with mwding around. Of course it will break it's tank with massive dps from barrage from 20km and more (because under 20km ... you know what happens).

And you guys tell me i speak from EFT perspective. Actually i did fight vigilant in my stabber more than once. He webbed me easily from 20km + he was also rail fit in first place.

But i bet you can show me tons of killmails of vigilants who have fallen to your mighty solo stabbers.

Edit . Indeed mighty pvpers we got there who avoid 20km + webs with 24km point stabber easily breaking vigilant 50k ehp. Of course with mighty barrage and without running out of cap for mwd. hell i'm so bad at this game.
If you told me it was Cyna with faction point i could even buy this bullshit , but that simply made me laugh - thank you for this ;).

18.2km?? the best you can fit is 15km
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#358 - 2014-04-08 10:12:44 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Nerf the bloody web bones like you did with the bloody Kronos (which I also Sold) but for gods sake leave that PG alone.

I agree, just nerf the webs. Why is CCP keeping this broken concept and nerfing everything else around it instead of just fixing the problem.

Or alternatively, keep the 90% webs but reduce the base T2 web strength to 50%. And then leave the Vigilant fittings alone. It is still going to be powerful, but it will allow a bit more time and chance for the enemy to mitigate any damage.
Naomi Anthar
#359 - 2014-04-08 10:17:39 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
4. not incredible fast ? Not slow either. With 2x 90% webs you should not have problem to dictate range vs even fastest ships in this game. And it's getting faster in this rebalance ....


Assuming you start in range of webs. If you don't, all that percentage means nothing, a Stabber will tear it apart piece by piece, orbiting outside its web range. That's what Serpentis is about - in-your-face, blaster wielding short range overlords. However, have it face a kiting ship and they'll have a big problem.

Of the above ships, do you know which one I think will be the most powerful? Gila. Don't believe me? Let's talk again in a few months.


Ah also i can see Gila being most powerful ... where i said it won't be ? I will put many dozens of stocked gilas to extensive testing. I hope you are right ... i will speak to you after derping 20 or more of those hulls with impunity ;).
Just like worm may end up being best pirate frig. Because MASSIVE tank and MASSIVE dps combined is never bad thing. To be able to outdps opponent and outtank - is never getting old.

But sorry to destroy your illushion of Serpentis ships - but most prefered version of daredevil and most powerful one at same time is - raildevil. Gl kiting this thing. Rail Vigilants also exist. As someone who actually saw those in action - can recommend those ships as true monsters. Now with more lockrange and more speed - they ain't gonna getting weaker than they are.

Trust me rail Serpentis ships are real ... and most of the time i beg serpentis ship to be blaster brawler rather than rail monstrosity.

But hey it was said i'm eft warrior with no experience who never saw those ships other than in EFT.

Maybe i was just dreaming ? Maybe it was just deja vu ? But from what i have seen serpentis ships are true terror to face.
Not saying you cannot kill one or you cannot counter some - see sentinel for more info on this topic. But in most of situations those ships are just insane and close to being unbeatable (although ship ... is ship , but player can make mistakes in fitting vessel or piloting it).

It's just simple mechanics - i killed legion in dragoon solo - true story. Because it decided it bump me from gate - so i webbed/scrammed it and was orbiting it at 500m where it couldnt hit me. Legion pilot made huge mistake by closing to me , instead of using scorch to wear me down like it should lol. Does it make Legion bad ship ? Does dragoon have edge over legion ? The same edge most of ships have over serpentis ships - bad pilots. Because hull itself is just insanely strong in right hands.

Killing Vigilants in Stabber is some joke. Everyone know this. A good one tho - so +1 for wtf factor.
Naomi Anthar
#360 - 2014-04-08 10:23:06 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:

18.2km?? the best you can fit is 15km


Now ... this is my last ... post. I got tired. If you would actually pvped once in your life. Or actually did even train thermodynamics to lvl 1. Then you would hear about so called mystic "overheating". How it works must be a true mystery to so accomplished PvPing legend like you. But well it actually does exist. What it does ? Noone knows. Some say it grants you 30% bonus to web range. Not sure if we should believe in rumors tho.

In case i would be right and you can web beyond 15km ... (of course as you know better than me we cannot) ... then i could be right actually that stabber does not wreck vigilants erry day.
But then i'm wrong. No single Vigilant webbed anything beyond 15km EVER.