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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

First post First post First post
Author
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#321 - 2014-04-08 07:26:47 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
So, with CCP Rises track record of, doing things his way.
Quote:
GILA

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
500% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket max velocity)


Slot layout: 5H, 6M, 4L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 670 PWG(+40), 400 CPU(+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3200(+12) / 2200(-125) / 2490
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1400(+25) / 530000 (-1250) / 2.85
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / .66 / 9600000 / 8.78s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(-105) / 100(-300)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 58km (+3km) / 285 / 7
Sensor strength: 22
Signature radius: 145(-5)

I'd be curious as to what role you see this as able to fit.


With all 5's, Hams and Furies, you have under 200 DPS with no BCU and around 220 with 1 BCU (it is supposed to be a drone boat, so should be able to fit drone upgrades, yes?)

2 Valkyrie II, that even with the new MWD bonus will not be able to catch and engage much more than a webbed AB cruiser. 600m/sec orbit speed negates them engaging anything faster than they can keep orbit on.
Forget Hammerheads unless your target is stationary. Infiltrators and Vespa's might be ok as long as you have all day for them to apply damage through what are usually the highest tanked for resists.

Sorry but; 500% bonus to Drone Damage is totally useless if they are unable to apply that damage. Orbit speed and activation proximity will see your drones not applying damage more than they do applying it.

If "Activation Proximity" is accurate; once your drone reaches "Activation Proximity" (2000m from target) it then drops from warp speed to orbit speed and engages. If the targeted ship moves to 2001m your drones will cease firing and enter warp speed to again reach Activation Proximity.

Was gimping the Gila so it is unable to field a flight of ECM drones deliberate, or just an oversight?

I currently use my Gile to run 6/10 DD sites and the odd frigate kill but don't see this as possible after the changes. So yet another ship along with RLML Caracal totally removed from PVE and only a very niche role in PVP.

Oh and should I sell my Rattlesnake now?


Didn't you know that the only acceptable use of ANY ship in Eve is PvP?
No one should ever PvE, because dev's like raivi and kil2, who never had to grind, say so.
Just buy lots of GTC's to fund your gameplay, and ship losses.

These changes to the Gila are just plain wrong, on all levels.
And when the Cynabal and Vigilant crowd are equally pissed off, maybe, just maybe, this entire pirate cruiser thing was incredibly poorly thought out.

In fact, I have to ask:
Why does EVERY ship in Eve have to be screwed with?
Was every single one broken, or is this some kind of make work project for raivi and kil2?
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#322 - 2014-04-08 07:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
2 medium drone gila?

Like.. i know you dislike your server loads but.. sigh......


Like, all comments on how "good" it is or isn't aside.. Thats just not aesthetically pleasing

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Darth Felin
Monkey Attack Squad
Goonswarm Federation
#323 - 2014-04-08 07:36:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Felin
Well those are long needed changes but I don't like many of them to be honest.

Ashimmu - great change that will produce good ship with its own role(s) even if they did not match very well as you have longer range web and neuts/noses that work within range of unbonused web but anyway change is good and result ship will be awesome.

Phantasm - this change is interesting but resulting ship will be overpowered without doubt, AB bonus is too large.

Gila - well, I hate this change, the 500% bonus with 2 drones is just too much, it is uncreative, and looks really ugly. But I like idea of the bonus to medium drones only, maybe it is better to have other way around and have 5x medium drones with 200% bonus? Yeah I know that it will produce bigger dps as compensation for more fragile drones.

Cynabal - it was good change and long needed, you will have to make some sacrifices in fitting to use it now but you will still be able to fit "standard fit" of 2xLSE+mwd+med neut but only with 220AC without any fitting mod. But maybe it will be appropriate to compensate a little bit such big PG nerf? Cynabal is primarily kaiter and it would be great to have a little bit more cap for it. But even without this he will be fine imho.

Vigilant - It was strong ship and even with PG nerf it will be strong still and balanced with other cruisers. (Well except for OP Phantasm)

P.S.
Btw Cartel ships really lack any unique bonus that will separate them from other ships. What do you think about giving them bonus to mwd cap consumption and maybe reducing cap penalty from mwd. So they will be mwd (permamwd) kiters.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#324 - 2014-04-08 07:38:17 UTC
BadAssMcKill wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Quote:
Vigilant:
Keeping the web bonus


does nobody else remember that huge thread we had where we all got mad about webs, and in particular, 90% webs? I'm fairly sure some CCPs agreed that webs are stupid.


What bonus could you possibly give the Vigilant other than that that differentiates it from the Deimos


a less than 90% web bonus

even a 80% web bonus would be really ******* powerful.. due to the way stacking works 90 is just ******* obscene.

I hope they don't keep 90% on the vindi.



That aside these are mostly so ******* weird i have a really hard time knowing what to say about them without trying them

The phantasm might be OP as ****.. or it might be ****? I have no ******* idea :P

EDIT: CCP, this is an adult game, your damn profanity filter is out of controll >_<

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Walextheone
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#325 - 2014-04-08 07:43:13 UTC
Okey so you are nerfing the Cynbal and maby it was a ship with too much freedom but it has already got nerfed before when the tracking enhance bonused got lowered and HACs got faster.

Maby give it a bit more of flavor and give it some cool role bonus like the other pirate ship.
NetheranE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#326 - 2014-04-08 07:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: NetheranE
Darth Felin wrote:
Well those are long needed changes but I don't like many of them to be honest.

Ashimmu - great change that will produce good ship with its own role(s) even if they did not match very well as you have longer range web and neuts/noses that work within range of unbonused web but anyway change is good and result ship will be awesome.

Phantasm - this change is interesting but resulting ship will be overpowered without doubt, AB bonus is too large.

Gila - well, I hate this change, the 500% bonus with 2 drones is just too much, it is uncreative, and looks really ugly. But I like idea of the bonus to medium drones only, maybe it is better to have other way around and have 5x medium drones with 200% bonus? Yeah I know that it will produce bigger dps as compensation for more fragile drones.

Cynabal - it was good change and long needed, you will have to make some sacrifices in fitting to use it now but you will still be able to fit "standard fit" of 2xLSE+mwd+med neut but only with 220AC without any fitting mod. But maybe it will be appropriate to compensate a little bit such big PG nerf? Cynabal is primarily kaiter and it would be great to have a little bit more cap for it. But even without this he will be fine imho.

Vigilant - It was strong ship and even with PG nerf it will be strong still and balanced with other cruisers. (Well except for OP Phantasm)


Arent you supposed to be back in preschool class drinking glue like its water?
Seriously, you are so daft and completely behind on the meta here.

The Vigilant wont be "strong," you'll have to drop all the way to electron blasters in order to even fit a 1600 plate, completely removing it as a relevant dps platform, which is EXACTLY what it should be.

The Cyna is ALREADY crappier than the Vaga, and with these nerfs it will be completely irrelevant in the field of shield-tanked-auto-kiting. Further, its niche as a kiting arty boat is completely thrown out the door as it can no longer fit arties without being practically untanked.
God help you if you even wanted to try and armor fit it with the changes, you'd be lucky to get dual180s with a 800plate.

The current Ash is not often used because it cant GET INTO RANGE to use its bonused neuts. With the web range bonus this will ENABLE the ship to better use its neuts and actually get them applied in combat. How did you not easily recognize this ****? "Oh but CCP I cant neut as far as I can web, dis is bad!"
Sweet baby jesus, you're genuinely making my head hurt with how much stupid your post is loaded with.

The Phant is good now because it has a NICHE. A role where it excels past all its peers! GO LOOK IT UP.


Seriously, either shake your head through a brick wall or get someone to do it for you.
SubStandard Rin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#327 - 2014-04-08 07:48:56 UTC
Hello excellent to see much changes to the Pirate ships.


I have a few key points.

a# web bonus on Vigilant might be to big ....one web on a Vigilant is stronger then 3x webs from three webbing lokis
the lokies got longer range but I am a bit worried about this being to much. it could work with special formula for diminish since double webbing Vigilant slows you down to ~2% speed considering going in 3k in a frigate that 60m/s and with a speed its impossible to crashing gates. to travel 15km under thoes speeds takes 250seconds or over 4minutes if you can't kill a frigate in 4 minutes something is wrong.


b# Cynabal from my point of view this ships will be under performing. its worse then a Vagabond, fits the same nich Please reconsider the Angel ships. they need a role not just a newly skinned Mimatar ship.

c# Gila / Drones -- I know this is out of context but Gila is really affected by them.
Can we have Small and Medium sentry drones also? just scale them down to open up more ways to use drones.
for right now the Gila will lose one of its way to be used as a sentry drone boat. and that’s a shame in my opinion.


--
eagerly awaiting the Battleships changes.
right now I can see several good ideas how to use all of the ships except the Cynabal.
Calorn Marthor
Standard Fuel Company
#328 - 2014-04-08 07:50:08 UTC
It is a bit sad that the Angels don't have their own unique bonus like the other pirate factions.
The Cyanabal may look a bit bland next to all the shiny other ships (ok, it was quite strong before).

But how about this one:

Give the Angel ships a bonus on Scan Resolution. Angel ships traditionally have a very high Scan Resolution, giving them sort of a unique edge (together with their speed), but I think that this stat is overlooked by many players, because it does not say "+300% awesomeness" in the ship description.
So I propose to either
a) nerf the Scan Resolution of the base hull a bit and then give them a bonus on Sensor Boosters/Signal Amplifiers.
OR (if you think that would be game-breaking)
b) just reduce the scan resolution of the base hull to the level of the other cruisers and then write "+20% Scan Resolution" on the traits page. This changes nothing in terms of balance, but gives the ship a better marketing because people will know what the unique flavor of these hulls is.

The scan resolution bonus makes these ships very good when hunting smaller targets or camping gates.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#329 - 2014-04-08 07:51:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
There should not be fitting nerfs. If anything, there should be buffs. These are not t1, t2, or even navy boats. They are powerful pirate faction ships designed to be used by outlaws, and focus on solo power, flexibility and durability at a premium price because they ARE supposed to be very powerful and resiliant for their size. Here's the short list of the issues currently facing this schema to which I have changed my initial opinion on after much thought and post reading:

-Phantasm needs range, not AB. It is first and foremost an offense laser platform as with all Sansha boats. While it is nice, it would belong more on Serpentis ships since they tend to do more close-range combat with the big web bonus they have. Extra laser range would allow for proper use of pulse with sniping in PVE and PVP settings, and although the AB schema DOES help with cap issues a bit, it's the capacitor itself that should be heavily upgraded, not substituted with an exotic bonus. And while I would PREFER them having a more or less equal slot allocation between mids and lows specc'd more with armor with 5/6 instead of 6/5 on the mids, I am ok with the current setup since it means you can actually fit armor now if you wanted. I'd just like a slight armor focus with slots and hp since Sansha produces the slave set and their NPC rats generally rep armor instead of shields.

-Ashimmu suffers from the lore stigma of having both web AND neut bonuses. A good way of rebalancing it without having the range of one render the other useless or awkward would be giving them both range bonuses, and dropping the number of weapons down on the highs and compensating with a massive, enormous role bonus for laser damage. 300-400% would be good; have 1 gun for the cruor, 2 for the ashimmu, and 3 for the Bhaal. Keep the web range bonus and do this for the neut/nos range for each level:
80% neut/nos range for cruor
40% neut/nos range for ashimmu
20% neut/nos range for bhaal

With 3,4, and 5 highslots open for nos on each of the ships respectively, they can somewhat circumvent the issue of reducing their effectiveness by adding more slots open to them. With the nos buff the Bhaal will be even more effective since the thing people seem to keep forgetting about how nos on blood raiders will work is that it will JUST keep draining cap regardless of either ship's cap amount...even if the one with the nos is full cap.

-For the Gila, the drone size focus causes WAY more problems than it solves, and is not only useless pidgeonholing, it's dangerous for the combat mechanics of guristas, and it's dangerous for their usage and causes a host of issues with flexibility. In addition to just having omni-damage missiles, you should *just* have it be drone damage and HP as it was before, instead of trying to force gameplay with certain class sizes. Anything short will get it mutilated horribly since part of the REASON for having drones on a ship in the first place is to fight smaller, faster ships that you can't catch yourself. Even if you ARE launching the equivilant of two frigates at them.
The Gila was well-liked before, but pretty OP with its drones. Changing things back to the old drone bonuses would be great for the gila and rattler, but it will work fine with the worm because you don't have to deal with the issue with undersizing your drones and giving them huge dps bonuses. Keep the drone bonuses for the Gila and Rattlesnake as-is currently in-game, and give them either 15% kinetic damage per level, or 10% omni damage. 100mb drone bandwidth for the gila would be an acceptable compensation for the extra missile dps, and help distance its drone performance from the rattler, which would benefit immensely from a buff to its missiles.

-The Vigilant, and all the other Serpentis ships for that matter, should get the AB bonus you're currently proposing with Sansha and have it swapped out with the falloff bonus, since they generally fight at spitting distance anyway. In addition to this, having a bonus to propulsion for Serpentis is in-line with the lore. They are the faction that produces Snake sets for their people for extra speed for BoB's sake, and they are the other one with deadspace modules for props to begin with, along with Angels.

-The Cynabal, aside from being mediocre to begin with considering how strong its competitors have been post-patch, Is in absolutely no need of a nerf whatsoever. It gets its face punched into the ground with how astonishingly POWERFUL the Vagabond is now; with its advantages to tank, cap stability, and most importantly since we're talking about speed tanking ships, sig.
There are thus two logical options for cynabal rebalance. The first would be to basically make it a bigger dramiel. You'd knock off a gun from the highs, and give it a 7.5% tracking bonus and 100% damage for its role bonus. You'd not only get 2 utility highs out of that for people to play with, but if the damage turns out to be less than ideal, you could give it 2 launcher slots to let it use those wonderful Rapid Light launchers everyone loves so much after the patch. In addition to NOT nerfing the PG, you'd get a more trim, flexible and useful ship than before that's not too terribly OP or untested, and competes with the stabber and its variants without having too many similar traits.
The second option would be to give it a very, VERY large mwd-bloom reduction bonus; something like 15-20% per level to match or exceed bonused interceptors, and outclass HACs. This would also fit with the lore, since it would fall in-line with their technology behind deadspace propulsion modules, and the sig-reduction of the Halo set.

Do this, CCP Rise, and back it up with some of the reasons I gave and I can personally guarantee you that you would have a shining, compliment-filled thread full of happy eggers. :)
NetheranE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#330 - 2014-04-08 07:52:03 UTC
SubStandard Rin wrote:
Hello excellent to see much changes to the Pirate ships.


I have a few key points.

a# web bonus on Vigilant might be to big ....one web on a Vigilant is stronger then 3x webs from three webbing lokis
the lokies got longer range but I am a bit worried about this being to much. it could work with special formula for diminish since double webbing Vigilant slows you down to ~2% speed considering going in 3k in a frigate that 60m/s and with a speed its impossible to crashing gates. to travel 15km under thoes speeds takes 250seconds or over 4minutes if you can't kill a frigate in 4 minutes something is wrong.


b# Cynabal from my point of view this ships will be under performing. its worse then a Vagabond, fits the same nich Please reconsider the Angel ships. they need a role not just a newly skinned Mimatar ship.

c# Gila / Drones -- I know this is out of context but Gila is really affected by them.
Can we have Small and Medium sentry drones also? just scale them down to open up more ways to use drones.
for right now the Gila will lose one of its way to be used as a sentry drone boat. and that’s a shame in my opinion.


--
eagerly awaiting the Battleships changes.
right now I can see several good ideas how to use all of the ships except the Cynabal.

You know there are multiple form of stacking penalties and there is a max-percentage scaling as well that enables two 90% webs to not reduce your speed that indefinitely?

Its not a shame the Gila cant use sentries, that's what an Ishtar is for. Train for one.

At least you were right about the Cynabal.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#331 - 2014-04-08 08:07:16 UTC
How disassociated and out-of-touch do you have to be to propose a nerf to the Cynabal? Strike 1: Rapid launchers… Strike 2: The Nestor. Strike 3: The pending Rattlesnake, Machariel and Vindicator nerf.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#332 - 2014-04-08 08:07:26 UTC
Wow .... such a hard nerf for cynabal .... and don't think it's that op ........ it was cool that you could fit it many way's. because it wasn't op. in compare to other ships cynabal is no longer the king, it lack the power, thats way we don't see it so often now day's.


i am sure that cynabal and mach do not need any nerf. if cool when pro players can abuse some ships to the extreme and do awsome things. and you are taking it away.

foring people to more and more blob ;<

i am not happy with that at all.

some thing should be better than others to keep the fan going : |
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#333 - 2014-04-08 08:19:08 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
How disassociated and out-of-touch do you have to be to propose a nerf to the Cynabal? Strike 1: Rapid launchers… Strike 2: The Nestor. Strike 3: The pending Rattlesnake, Machariel and Vindicator nerf.


Which of these do you think would make a better cynabal rebalance?

1. Make it a big dramiel with the same bonuses to medium turrets, dropping a turret hardpoint to compensate for dps and dmg application. Add 2 launcher slots, increase agility, +25 drone space.

2. Go with a mwd-bloom reduction bonus on the order of 15-20%. Have the same setup as before with the guns and role bonus, but forgo tracking bonus and extra drones.
NetheranE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#334 - 2014-04-08 08:25:29 UTC  |  Edited by: NetheranE
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
How disassociated and out-of-touch do you have to be to propose a nerf to the Cynabal? Strike 1: Rapid launchers… Strike 2: The Nestor. Strike 3: The pending Rattlesnake, Machariel and Vindicator nerf.


Which of these do you think would make a better cynabal rebalance?

1. Make it a big dramiel with the same bonuses to medium turrets, dropping a turret hardpoint to compensate for dps and dmg application. Add 2 launcher slots, increase agility, +25 drone space.

2. Go with a mwd-bloom reduction bonus on the order of 15-20%. Have the same setup as before with the guns and role bonus, but forgo tracking bonus and extra drones.

Neither, the Cyna should be an auto ship, period.

We have plenty of drone shitting ships, we need something else.
Why not make it some ridiculous hybrid of the Muninn and Vaga, being able to use arties or autos well, and with the ability to tank either armor or shield, and be an extremely versatile ship in its fitting capacity?

...Oh wait, it already is that.
:CCPRISE:
Callidus Marus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#335 - 2014-04-08 08:26:41 UTC
I don't get the PG reduction on the vigilant.

At all times that ship was just a shiney bling ship and was never viable as an pvp platform of any kind.

yes it's got a lot of dps and an extremly powerfull web. but thats it. it can't tank well it's not incredible fast and has no utility. it's an 500mio gank ship. I don't get the nerf there.
more lock range is cool but won't do much.

It competes to a deimos and a proteus both are more flexible and better in most pvp situations. (deimos not much but at least it got good resistance-> which opens up a lot of powerfull setups).

And since when do people think the vigilant is a powerfull ship?

fit a long point and stay out of 14km and kill it with almost everything.
Vexus Blak
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#336 - 2014-04-08 08:27:19 UTC
I hope you guys are at least going to give the Cynabal a reach around afterwards...
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#337 - 2014-04-08 08:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: IbanezLaney
Gila will be completely useless.

Can only put 2 Medium drones out due to the terrible bandwidth.

Can't use it for bashing POS towers anymore. (One if our main uses for it)


Really don't see why it needs to have all of its versatility removed.
Anthar Thebess
#338 - 2014-04-08 08:42:55 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

PHANTASM

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret tracking speed

Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)



Will we get finally some sansha shield modules - as their faction ship use shield as their primary tank?
Will be a sansha AB also created?

If they are shield based with a AB bonus , why engineer minds assimilated by Sansha didn't create any modules that will fit into this role?

LuisWu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#339 - 2014-04-08 08:46:57 UTC
PG nerf in Cynabal was needed, but I think that as (almost) always in CCP history you are overnerfing a fun ship to fly to the f****** ground. Its not the only kitting platform right now, it doesn't proyects damage as well as a Nomen, nor have the resist profile or sig bonus as the Vag (which needs another pass imho), its been already hitted with the TE nerf...

F*** This Game

Naomi Anthar
#340 - 2014-04-08 08:55:14 UTC
Callidus Marus wrote:
I don't get the PG reduction on the vigilant.

At all times that ship was just a shiney bling ship and was never viable as an pvp platform of any kind.

yes it's got a lot of dps and an extremly powerfull web. but thats it. it can't tank well it's not incredible fast and has no utility. it's an 500mio gank ship. I don't get the nerf there.
more lock range is cool but won't do much.

It competes to a deimos and a proteus both are more flexible and better in most pvp situations. (deimos not much but at least it got good resistance-> which opens up a lot of powerfull setups).

And since when do people think the vigilant is a powerfull ship?

fit a long point and stay out of 14km and kill it with almost everything.


It's gets pretty boring pretty fast . It's last time i respond to troll post. I swear.

1. lot of dps ? 999 dps now with all 5 oh void. That is not a lot of dps on cruiser. It's Mindnumbing amount of dps. And it does sacrifice NOTHING to get that dps. Also applies ever single 1 dps of that with ease.

2. Extremly powerful web ? Extremly ? Now after removing this web from Ashimmu - it's only cruiser in game that provide this bonus. It's not just extremly powerful but completly unique , where nothing in this game can bring this kind of advantage to your cruiser gang. No other cruiser possess this bonus - most powerful one in game.

3. "it can't tank well" - i completly miss point where 50k + ehp ship pre slaves/links/pimp mods is not tanking well. It tanks better than Phantasm/Ashimmu/Cynabal. 6 lows , huge base ehp. What exactly you understand as "tanking well" ? 100k base ehp ? Sorry mate this is ehp of navy bc or some fat prophecy.

4. not incredible fast ? Not slow either. With 2x 90% webs you should not have problem to dictate range vs even fastest ships in this game. And it's getting faster in this rebalance ....

5. No utility ? How is 2x 90% web not an utility ? Basically you can rename your webifiers on this ship to - IMMOBILIZERS.
What did you expect ship with 1k dps 50k+ ehp(pre any buffs from links /slaves) and insane utility allowing you to freeze any ship in this game including new phantasm/succubus - despite ab bonus they got.
You what expected also extra 3 free mids for damps with huge bonus on this ewar or what ?

6. Lets not forget about 50 bay allowing you to bring some sort of hornets-300 to bring even more utlity than you already provide.

7. "It competes with deimos" - and it wins in some aspects easily. Sure it won't tank that well, but it brings utility to fight - something deimos does not provide at all. And if HAC cannot dps/tank well - what actually it should do best ? As AHAC is not EWAR ship you know. Also Vigilant does not lose in DPS aspect. Not by single point.

8. "fit a long point and stay out of 14km" - so what now ? The Vigilant pilot cannot oh web ? Because you know heat aint stacking when you don't web actually - so he can have webs preheated 24/7 until he actually gets web. So more like never get within 18.2km - GL with THAT. And that only if he does not have links - and guess what ? Most users of serpentis ships carry over some stupid links. Links that actually give serpentis ship pilot more than they give other ships.
So expect webbing above 20km easily. Also try to kite Rail Vigilant ... it is going to hurt more than anything you gonna fly. It's joke ...

And last : "And since when do people think the vigilant is a powerfull ship?" - answer : since always. For reasons posted above.
One of most powerful cruisers ever in game pre this rebalance and easily after aswell (hopefull not that powerful after).
Worth every isk you pay for it. Actually heavily underpriced.