Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Didn't you know that the only acceptable use of ANY ship in Eve is PvP?
No one should ever PvE, because dev's like raivi and kil2, who never had to grind, say so.
Just buy lots of GTC's to fund your gameplay, and ship losses.

These changes to the Gila are just plain wrong, on all levels.
And when the Cynabal and Vigilant crowd are equally pissed off, maybe, just maybe, this entire pirate cruiser thing was incredibly poorly thought out.

In fact, I have to ask:
Why does EVERY ship in Eve have to be screwed with?
Was every single one broken, or is this some kind of make work project for raivi and kil2?

Well those are long needed changes but I don't like many of them to be honest.

Ashimmu - great change that will produce good ship with its own role(s) even if they did not match very well as you have longer range web and neuts/noses that work within range of unbonused web but anyway change is good and result ship will be awesome.

Phantasm - this change is interesting but resulting ship will be overpowered without doubt, AB bonus is too large.

Gila - well, I hate this change, the 500% bonus with 2 drones is just too much, it is uncreative, and looks really ugly. But I like idea of the bonus to medium drones only, maybe it is better to have other way around and have 5x medium drones with 200% bonus? Yeah I know that it will produce bigger dps as compensation for more fragile drones.

Cynabal - it was good change and long needed, you will have to make some sacrifices in fitting to use it now but you will still be able to fit "standard fit" of 2xLSE+mwd+med neut but only with 220AC without any fitting mod. But maybe it will be appropriate to compensate a little bit such big PG nerf? Cynabal is primarily kaiter and it would be great to have a little bit more cap for it. But even without this he will be fine imho.

Vigilant - It was strong ship and even with PG nerf it will be strong still and balanced with other cruisers. (Well except for OP Phantasm)

P.S.
Btw Cartel ships really lack any unique bonus that will separate them from other ships. What do you think about giving them bonus to mwd cap consumption and maybe reducing cap penalty from mwd. So they will be mwd (permamwd) kiters.

Okey so you are nerfing the Cynbal and maby it was a ship with too much freedom but it has already got nerfed before when the tracking enhance bonused got lowered and HACs got faster.

Maby give it a bit more of flavor and give it some cool role bonus like the other pirate ship.

Hello excellent to see much changes to the Pirate ships.


I have a few key points.

a# web bonus on Vigilant might be to big ....one web on a Vigilant is stronger then 3x webs from three webbing lokis
the lokies got longer range but I am a bit worried about this being to much. it could work with special formula for diminish since double webbing Vigilant slows you down to ~2% speed considering going in 3k in a frigate that 60m/s and with a speed its impossible to crashing gates. to travel 15km under thoes speeds takes 250seconds or over 4minutes if you can't kill a frigate in 4 minutes something is wrong.


b# Cynabal from my point of view this ships will be under performing. its worse then a Vagabond, fits the same nich Please reconsider the Angel ships. they need a role not just a newly skinned Mimatar ship.

c# Gila / Drones -- I know this is out of context but Gila is really affected by them.
Can we have Small and Medium sentry drones also? just scale them down to open up more ways to use drones.
for right now the Gila will lose one of its way to be used as a sentry drone boat. and that’s a shame in my opinion.


--
eagerly awaiting the Battleships changes.
right now I can see several good ideas how to use all of the ships except the Cynabal.

There should not be fitting nerfs. If anything, there should be buffs. These are not t1, t2, or even navy boats. They are powerful pirate faction ships designed to be used by outlaws, and focus on solo power, flexibility and durability at a premium price because they ARE supposed to be very powerful and resiliant for their size. Here's the short list of the issues currently facing this schema to which I have changed my initial opinion on after much thought and post reading:

-Phantasm needs range, not AB. It is first and foremost an offense laser platform as with all Sansha boats. While it is nice, it would belong more on Serpentis ships since they tend to do more close-range combat with the big web bonus they have. Extra laser range would allow for proper use of pulse with sniping in PVE and PVP settings, and although the AB schema DOES help with cap issues a bit, it's the capacitor itself that should be heavily upgraded, not substituted with an exotic bonus. And while I would PREFER them having a more or less equal slot allocation between mids and lows specc'd more with armor with 5/6 instead of 6/5 on the mids, I am ok with the current setup since it means you can actually fit armor now if you wanted. I'd just like a slight armor focus with slots and hp since Sansha produces the slave set and their NPC rats generally rep armor instead of shields.

-Ashimmu suffers from the lore stigma of having both web AND neut bonuses. A good way of rebalancing it without having the range of one render the other useless or awkward would be giving them both range bonuses, and dropping the number of weapons down on the highs and compensating with a massive, enormous role bonus for laser damage. 300-400% would be good; have 1 gun for the cruor, 2 for the ashimmu, and 3 for the Bhaal. Keep the web range bonus and do this for the neut/nos range for each level:
80% neut/nos range for cruor
40% neut/nos range for ashimmu
20% neut/nos range for bhaal

With 3,4, and 5 highslots open for nos on each of the ships respectively, they can somewhat circumvent the issue of reducing their effectiveness by adding more slots open to them. With the nos buff the Bhaal will be even more effective since the thing people seem to keep forgetting about how nos on blood raiders will work is that it will JUST keep draining cap regardless of either ship's cap amount...even if the one with the nos is full cap.

-For the Gila, the drone size focus causes WAY more problems than it solves, and is not only useless pidgeonholing, it's dangerous for the combat mechanics of guristas, and it's dangerous for their usage and causes a host of issues with flexibility. In addition to just having omni-damage missiles, you should *just* have it be drone damage and HP as it was before, instead of trying to force gameplay with certain class sizes. Anything short will get it mutilated horribly since part of the REASON for having drones on a ship in the first place is to fight smaller, faster ships that you can't catch yourself. Even if you ARE launching the equivilant of two frigates at them.
The Gila was well-liked before, but pretty OP with its drones. Changing things back to the old drone bonuses would be great for the gila and rattler, but it will work fine with the worm because you don't have to deal with the issue with undersizing your drones and giving them huge dps bonuses. Keep the drone bonuses for the Gila and Rattlesnake as-is currently in-game, and give them either 15% kinetic damage per level, or 10% omni damage. 100mb drone bandwidth for the gila would be an acceptable compensation for the extra missile dps, and help distance its drone performance from the rattler, which would benefit immensely from a buff to its missiles.

-The Vigilant, and all the other Serpentis ships for that matter, should get the AB bonus you're currently proposing with Sansha and have it swapped out with the falloff bonus, since they generally fight at spitting distance anyway. In addition to this, having a bonus to propulsion for Serpentis is in-line with the lore. They are the faction that produces Snake sets for their people for extra speed for BoB's sake, and they are the other one with deadspace modules for props to begin with, along with Angels.

-The Cynabal, aside from being mediocre to begin with considering how strong its competitors have been post-patch, Is in absolutely no need of a nerf whatsoever. It gets its face punched into the ground with how astonishingly POWERFUL the Vagabond is now; with its advantages to tank, cap stability, and most importantly since we're talking about speed tanking ships, sig.
There are thus two logical options for cynabal rebalance. The first would be to basically make it a bigger dramiel. You'd knock off a gun from the highs, and give it a 7.5% tracking bonus and 100% damage for its role bonus. You'd not only get 2 utility highs out of that for people to play with, but if the damage turns out to be less than ideal, you could give it 2 launcher slots to let it use those wonderful Rapid Light launchers everyone loves so much after the patch. In addition to NOT nerfing the PG, you'd get a more trim, flexible and useful ship than before that's not too terribly OP or untested, and competes with the stabber and its variants without having too many similar traits.
The second option would be to give it a very, VERY large mwd-bloom reduction bonus; something like 15-20% per level to match or exceed bonused interceptors, and outclass HACs. This would also fit with the lore, since it would fall in-line with their technology behind deadspace propulsion modules, and the sig-reduction of the Halo set.

Do this, CCP Rise, and back it up with some of the reasons I gave and I can personally guarantee you that you would have a shining, compliment-filled thread full of happy eggers. :)

How disassociated and out-of-touch do you have to be to propose a nerf to the Cynabal? Strike 1: Rapid launchers… Strike 2: The Nestor. Strike 3: The pending Rattlesnake, Machariel and Vindicator nerf.

Which of these do you think would make a better cynabal rebalance?

1. Make it a big dramiel with the same bonuses to medium turrets, dropping a turret hardpoint to compensate for dps and dmg application. Add 2 launcher slots, increase agility, +25 drone space.

2. Go with a mwd-bloom reduction bonus on the order of 15-20%. Have the same setup as before with the guns and role bonus, but forgo tracking bonus and extra drones.

I don't get the PG reduction on the vigilant.

At all times that ship was just a shiney bling ship and was never viable as an pvp platform of any kind.

yes it's got a lot of dps and an extremly powerfull web. but thats it. it can't tank well it's not incredible fast and has no utility. it's an 500mio gank ship. I don't get the nerf there.
more lock range is cool but won't do much.

It competes to a deimos and a proteus both are more flexible and better in most pvp situations. (deimos not much but at least it got good resistance-> which opens up a lot of powerfull setups).

And since when do people think the vigilant is a powerfull ship?

fit a long point and stay out of 14km and kill it with almost everything.

Gila will be completely useless.

Can only put 2 Medium drones out due to the terrible bandwidth.

Can't use it for bashing POS towers anymore. (One if our main uses for it)


Really don't see why it needs to have all of its versatility removed.

PG nerf in Cynabal was needed, but I think that as (almost) always in CCP history you are overnerfing a fun ship to fly to the f****** ground. Its not the only kitting platform right now, it doesn't proyects damage as well as a Nomen, nor have the resist profile or sig bonus as the Vag (which needs another pass imho), its been already hitted with the TE nerf...