Wormholes

ccp uses narcotics. awful patch

Well I think there are more important things to fix in W-Space.

Beside the awful POS system and corp rights, why not simply hiding the sig until someone jumped trough the WH?

I mean, if you guys are looking to increase the PVP opportunities.. just make wormholes more attractive for outsiders.

And while you're at it, why not removing local in nullsec?

As a former member of a notorious WH farming alliance, and now a member of a notorious PVP corp......

I'd have to say that adding a delay to it showing up on the overlay would be fine, but anyone smart enough to have active probes out scanning for new sigs, shouldn't experience any delay(some kind of disconnect from your d-scan menu and the overlay..? hell i dunno). If you're decent, hunting people doing some farming at this point isn't really too hard. So basically, if someone is spending the time and effort to be aware of whats around them, they should be able to, if they're mindlessly farming and not paying attention...well then screw 'em.

on behalf of SSC, i can honestly say we would want that...

But seriously, its a quirky mechanic to be considered in some form. Maybe add some trigger into escalations that has a chance to open a hole between escalated grid (100-200km?) and some other random hole of the same class?

Guess the way I was meaning it didn't convey very well over the internet - wasn't exactly a serious suggestion more of a flippant if we are going to make changes lets stir it up proper.

Terrible idea. The amount of cross holes I get has already gone up significantly in the last year or two, which I am sure is intentional on CCP's part to increase pew. All well and good, but now it is pretty common for me to have 2 or 3 cross holes, and a nulsec or random losec AS WELL AS the static in my C3.

This happens 4 or 5 days a week. Don't you think that keeps me on my toes?

And now you want to give invaders several minutes of free time to bring in entire fleets with no warning whatsoever?
Since they could form up on their side of the hole, and all click enter at once, and then have enough time to warp to a safe spot before being scanned even by an active combat probe scanner. (Scanned down, not just detected)

Pretty much everything in the last year or two has been in the favour of the ganker. Shouldn't the defender have at least a few seconds of warning, or does CCP believe blob vs. unaware outnumbered persons constitutes "PVP" ?

Invaders might as well be shooting npc's for all the risk they take already.
Giving them even more of an advantage is just ridiculous.

Been watching my corps WH activity since this thread started.

In that time not once when rolling our static was the other side doing escalations or just finishing a site. There were pos's in every WH we encountered and in only a few cases was there any activity. For instance the first chain today had more than 15 WHs in it with virtually no activity and that included the C5 with one of the larger WH corps in it.( no one was really home)However, we did get a site running fleet by exploring and moving down the entire chain. We did roll into a piñata and while we looted there was one person on line who watched us.

if you want PVP you can find it, but have to search. So it seems to me this change is being pushed by lazy PVPers who want to just roll from the relative safety of their home WH until they find a fleet so that they can gank. Some of the most fun I have had and seen my corps mates have is when exploring and finding things deep in the chain and ending up in a brawl with multiple corps. I admit that most of the time the corps does NS roams, but even with these some NS WHs are left alone because those areas of NS are boring for them.

seems to me that what we need is more content so more times corps will be out of their home base.

The other argument I see being made in an offhand way is that there is too much ISK being made depressing market prices. Well, it takes about one siege cycle of the dreads in our escalation fleet to take down a fully escalated C5 site. With that sort of speed you make lots of isk and reduce the chance of other corps even finding you making isk. Out of an entire week the corps might have ships in sites for 6 hours. Now think about the chances of running into us while we are site running( 6 out of 168 possible). Now extrapolate the chance you will have against a well run operation in taking it down given mass limits on WHs. As has happened to us in the past the WH was simply rerolled while we remained on site. If we roll into a comparable fleet with home field advantage even the most ardent of our PVPers are going to ignore it, suicide is just not worth it. So for those of us that can farm our anoms we do it quickly and pretty much with total autonomy that this proposal does nothing to address. All it does is make it so we cannot respond to the opening of the WH before it is closed. ISK streams also increased due to that nice Gas harvester we all wanted. Of course some of the decrease in isk is also due to the nerf on the tengu and the lack of T3 use outside of WH space (supply and demand)

So how do we fix?
Get rid of escalations!. Face it we know how to milk these for all their worth in the larger corps.
Make it so sites cannot be farmed!
Lower the number of sleeper anoms so that corps have to explore and set up shop outside their home system more often to get ISK and increase the respawn rate so they do not all end up in that Black hole system no one wants to be in.
Add more hidden content that requires scanning. Ore sites, gas sites, ice sites, ghost sites. You may have to make them smaller so the impact of having more is decreased.
The key here is to get corps moving which will help with your fights as you call them. Make both sides (carebear and PVPer) have to work for the game they want.
Make blackholes a place that you might want to set up shop in so that sites get activated there
Make sure T3s have value outside of WH space and in PVP so demand remains strong.


I make good money with the escalations fleet so this is not an easy proposal to make. But the current proposal being made just makes for bad gaming all the way around. No one wants to die in a firefight they had no chance against. We have a fight or flight mechanism wired into our brains for the reason, not being able to engage it will just lead to frustration which will lead to a reduced player base which is exactly what we do not want.

Chopping off escalations is not the answer, but a modification to it would not hurt.

Escalations should be room based. Meaning that sites could be run without bringing out a capital to "escalate it".

Room 1, normal spawn, bonus room 2, a escalation spawn, bonus room 3, tietary spawn, (none needing capitals to spawn them). Make them warp points. Its not much of a modification but essentially escalations are wormhole bonus rooms. You can remove escalations and make it room based. This doesn't fix the issue of the pew though.

You need more people outside the shields and you need to make wormhole space have a greater value than salvaging wrecks.

Aka, you need wormhole loot (ship based modules that function subpar to t2 equipment, but function much higher when overheated (you have a wormhole blaster fit, can take t2 ammo, unheated, does less damage than the normal t2 blaster, heated, does more damage than a heated t2 blaster). Similar modules can be implemented with active tanking modules.

Relic and data sites should have no sleepers, but should have a warp bubble around it (more gank chances)

You really should not be able to crit a static (or collapse it) and make your wormhole completely isolated from all space by not opening the new static (it's not hole control, its total isolation, your own pretty pve dungeon).

You half mass a static, spawn a new wormhole,
Wormhole hits the reaches natural lifespan message, spawn a new wormhole.
If either has been reached and a new wormhole has already spawned, do not spawn a new static.

In all cases, at some point, you'll have 2 wormholes

There should not be way for a single person to totally lock down a wormhole (and rage rolling a new one ain't the answer either)

Is this less secure. You betcha. You'll have to carebear in your dead end system just like everybody else does, with a scout on the gate and a order to starburst if a unknown neutral or alt shows up.

Sounds like an awful idea that will make high class WH's even safer.

Without the ability to control home system, people will blob capitals on sites to ensure overwhelming invading forces.

Please leave the blob wars to where it belongs, to null sec.

CCp , I applaud the idea of making wormhole space a little more active, there is much of merit, and some existing problems that restrict it.

Hiding incoming wormholes will do nothing to improve things, and in fact will cause harm to the overall life of it's inhabitants.

There is no such thing as risk free farming in wormholes. It can work for a while, There are those that try, but eventually BOB shows them otherwise.

Risk is an accepted part of wormhole life and even when taking all precautions things can still bite you in the ass in any class of wormhole, so please disregard this thought, it is simply an old wives tale.

However, one of the things that is often lacking is as simple is the amount of traffic, sometimes it can be like being on the end of a country track.. That can change in a hurry however with interesting effects.

So do not implement any part of the OP suggestion in any form but do all of the the following together...

1. Add an additional static to every class of wormhole.
2. Make all sites in wormholes require scanning.
3. Remove on screen sensor sweep in all classes of wormhole.
4. Identify each type of signature on first core or combat scan pass.
5. Retain scan results when jumping holes and returning while in same ship.
6. Increase spawn rate of wandering wormholes by 10%
7. Make black holes wormhole superhubs with many many wandering incoming connections,Leave their stats otherwise unchanged.
8. Single 10 second flash of dscan window when k162 is first opened.
9. The value of blue loot and improved opportunities for gas and ore sites (new product with a npc purchase value) would be needed to balance the significantly increased losses incurred as a result of these changes. Note: not to provide an increase of overall rewards.
The entire combination will increase traffic and prevent an excessive increase of easy kills of the alert, while giving additional opportunities to engage in combat/baiting as well as ensuring the benefit continues of an alert active play methodology.
.

In summation if all these changes occurred together then this would make wormhole life more active, encourage people to travel further, encourage more destructive interaction. In combination this will be balanced to increase gains and losses in equal amounts without disrupting the market by using npc purchases to balance the overall changes. Npc price value can be adjusted to maintain equilibrium and level of interaction.

Please note in isolation almost all of these changes would be massively out of balance and destructive.
Only in combination as an overall rebalance could this work.
Please do not be tempted to pick and choose and only accept some. Great harm would result.......