Wormholes

It's been years since I went through a new hole in a non-cloaked ship. Just pointing basic hunting mechanics out, that's all.

yup the decloked bit is correct but having x amount of delay would be just plane gankfest, like you said forcing people to fight is what I like and I have thought about this a lot over the years with missed site fights ect, but put it plainly, only way to force a fight and even more so now with the new anchorable items in eve

if you have a npc timer you are unable to warp back to the pos even having it that the pos attacks you ( say due to sleeper site influence you ships id is unrecognisable for x amount of time ) that way they will have to get to a SS for a period of time before safely warping to a pos, the mobile depot gives them a time to quikly refit for a fight or to try and GTFO, but other wise 36hr is ure only way to effectively do it and deploy bug zapper poses to kill them when they re log back in


also if the delay was to be slightly introduced then having all anoms made to scan sites would be the key apart from the highest payd site stil to be a anom

Stop trying to make everybody play the game your way. Not all space has to be like w-space.

Chitsa, do you know how much cash people are making in class 1-4 wormholes given the time invested and the current price of melted nanos? No-where near as much as they were making a year ago and a tiny fraction of what C5/6 dwellers can make.

That's the point he is making. You say 'OUR CAPITAL...'. There needs to be a solution that solves the problem for all classes of holes not just the ones you fly in.

Well ok, just remove this bullshit of overlay everywhere in nullsec and go back to the previous system, i have no problem with that...

Are we ok ?

Hey!

I'm not a wormhole resident (yet) but I find this very interesting and I think there should be some balance between both sides - aggressors and wormhole residents.

Maybe there should be some dynamic factors added to wormhole appearance on scan and overlay, depending on the wormhole type, the number of ships that pass through it, also the time during which the wormhole has been exposed to probe signals and whether there has been a cynosural field lighted near the wormhole.

So if a large group of ships suddenly pass through the wormhole, it should appear on scan and overlay sooner than if only one ship or a small group pass through. These dynamic factors should also include the ship signature radius, so when ships have larger signatures they should make the wormhole appear on scan sooner. In a lore concept this would mean that wormholes should be really sneaky when they appear, but when someone disrupts them by passing through them they would emit waves that can be easily detected.

This would bring some balance and make it fair for the wormhole residents when there is a large dangerous fleet coming to them.

Same with the cynos. When a cyno is lighted near a wormhole there should be a big delay but the wormhole would eventually appear on scan and overlay, but if a large group of ships suddenly jump in using the cyno, then this timer should be shortened significantly, depending on ship overall signature radius, or their mass, or their count - whatever applies better. This would meant that wormhole residents might be aware of the new wormhole before someone jump through.

Additionally if a wormhole has been scanned down multiple times - it should eventually appear in scan results and on overlay, maybe after a long while.

These dynamic factors should apply whether ships pass in large groups or smaller groups but continuously, meaning that if an aggressor group decide to split in smaller groups and pass through the wormhole one after the other to avoid imminent wormhole appearance on scan, they should not take that much advantage of that tactic and the wormhole would appear on scan after a large portion of their fleet has passed through, but it would still appear later than if they all pass through at the same time.

This would mean that if there is some really big danger to the wormhole residents, presented by some large fleet, they should be aware of it, but if there are smaller fleets, or just explorers/ small group of miners etc. there should be less indication of their arrival.

All these dynamic factors - one by one or combined - should bring some balance and make this fair game. I just hope things like this will be easy for the server to handle. :)

EDIT: I would also add that if some explorer has really good skills and equipment, they should be able to detect the wormhole when spamming the probes. Either way when a new wormhole appears it is important for both residents and aggressors to be aware of it, so if the latter group is looking for new wormholes, they should have the same delay of hole appearance as the ones on the other side.

This is about the wormhole community asking CCP for a dedicated TEAM to deal with and handle wormhole space.

This thread is a mish-mosh of issues with wormholes but it is all falling on deaf ears. So instead of having everybody just throw everything out there in every thread, how about just creating a internal CCP team to look at, review, compile and fix wormhole space as a whole?

Heck, announce it at Fanfest, even have a 4 hour sit-down with the wormhole community, write everything out, webcast it, take in questions, and have that team actually do some work on it.

That would appease the wormhole community MUCH more than suggesting the possibility of change, and you generate increased use of this half barren land.

1) It is great that CCP is paying attention to WHs and want to make them better.

2) The immediate and automagical propagation of new signatures needs to go, at least in Wspace. This where the delay should be. They should still appear eventually, because its a nice user-friendly thing and we need that to increase the WH population, but they should not appear instantly.

3) Forced delay even when using probes is a bad idea because it prevents people from gathering information even through their own active endeavour. In sum: passive intel is bad, active intel is good. This is why we hate local so much - you dont need to do absolutely anything and it serves you perfect and up to date intel which cannot be avoided. And it is also why we respect combat scanning - its a learned skill that requires effort and patience and can be countered by vigilant victims, so the scanner actually needs to be good to succeed.

4) Delayed signature appearance would favour existing strong groups over smaller ones. WSpace should reward being sneaky and clever, not about getting advantage through numbers by arbitrary mechanics. This would also hurt groups in lower WH classes.

5) Proposed change would make seeding and quick defensive rolling uncounterable and usually even undiscoverable - again hurting active players. I'm especially worried about the rolling part. Engaging someone who just connected to our hole and wants to get rid of it is already very difficult and has very short time window. Preventing us from seeing it and scanning the connection altogether would make it nigh impossible and would make defensive rolling perfectly safe - which is very very bad. Wormhole pvpers do not find their content only in their static, we need incoming connections with which to interact as well.

6) This gets me to the overall aim of the proposal. It seems to be tailored towards ganking c5/c6 escalation runners but it is very narrow and without consideration to both other activities and to other WH classes. Imho the real problem of the often mentioned ease of avoiding pvp in wspace is NOT seeing the new connection (esp. if their automagical apperance on the overlay gets fixed) but how easy it is to get rid of it.

Rolling wormholes with capitals is just too safe, too risk-free. This is what I think needs adjusting. People who want to avoid pvp can currently simply isolate their system from other players and prevent interaction. And even if new connection spawns, unless its already bubbled (which shows enemy presence and removes any surprise) they can simply warp their rolling fleet to 0, jump in, jump out, and its done. Only possible counters are cloaky carrier and/or crossjumping T3 blob and getting trapped, which is less than ideal and highly disproportional (we usually dont mind getting collapsed in, many actually love going balls deep, the issue is that even if you're willing to commit to this highly risky "maneuver" it still is difficult to time it right and requires luck/ignorance).

Wormholes need more interaction between all kinds groups, not giving one of them advantage. We need more connections between all classes and we need those connections to be more risky (but not more difficult) to sever. We need it to be more difficult to isolate yourself, not to actively defend yourself from people you might meet. There were already suggestions for multiple static C4s, more roaming connections, making K162 sides spawn automatically without the need to warp to the sig, even spawing extra connections to wormholes with current sleeper kills. Add to that some new mechanic for riskier rolling (like the warp-in deviation increasing with ship mass I suggested earlier, or anything else) and you have a very good WH shakeup. All these would I think be much better for fixing the "pvp avoidance issue" without collaterally screwing someone or something else up.