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Any chance that we have a chance to refund the skills?

No.

CCP is slowly killing EVE because it nerfs something in every expansion

Although I understand whats being done here, I understand the reasons behind it and i can mostly get behind them this development shows me two problems.

1) yet ANOTHER! way where null sec based power block can outearn the lesser guys. Which basically means anyone not in at least a few hundred man alliance. And don't come whining about the added risk of null-sec mining. If your in bleu area and know how to keep half an eye on directional not all that much risk....no more or less then plexing anyway.

CCP keeps stating that they want more people to move out of high and they keep developing things that make it harder. If you are an upstart and the established local can outgun you 5-1 as well as maintaining a model where they could kill you 1:1 (very badly played by them then) and still run you into the ground economically it is never gonna work.



2) It goes against anything even remote logical universe/lore wise.
Where does it make any logical mundane this-is-how-bussiness-works sense to have the
lawless, underpoliced, high risk, well-****-up-your-station- if-we-can area have a better
industrial complex then well policed, we haven't seen a real distubance in 50 years, your
expensive investments are mostly safe here, environment.
thats like expecting somalian/algerian/whatever-war-torn-no-peace-ever-for-5-years-solid-
ian country to have a better developed undustrial complex then say the Ruhr-area in
Germany.

I could figure out if was possible through high investment to make A (single) station /
system where you could reach the same level or even surpass in rare-ish cases - but not as a
general rule (plonk down any oldpos with any old refinery and work better then a station
system)

the tldr:
I'm fine with all this.

It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense looking at it from any other perspective then helping out groups that are least in need of any help (really the whole compression improvement would have gone a long way on its own). It help already hulking powerblocks be unbeatable in yet anotehr way.

It wrecks lore and logic.

that all

If you actually read the post you would see thats not the point im making as well as i already got you covered in the first sentence. (Hey look at that- another powerblock-er who isnt satiesfied with already being able to outgun and outearn everybody else already )

They are required and actually work better if trained to 5 with this change. So why would CCP even consider that?

So no, it's a silly request and will not happen.

Consider the future vision of capsuleers gaining more control over the EVE universe. Consider the worried looking CONCORD guy looking even more worried in the next trailer.
From here

Its the refining that was stopping miners from going to null. By far the biggest need in everything is low end ores and frankly, high sec has just as much of the stuff as null. Sure our rocks look bigger but you are just as good stripping a high sec system as null.

This change to refining means that mining in null for low ends is an attractive option and makes building things in null a lot eaiser. It also means we can import big volumes of minerals from high sec easier and for less cost which again, is going to be a big help for producing in null.

Doesnt this create a reverse impetus though?

At the same time as mining becomes more profitable and efficient in null, due to logistic ease of refining the ore at a higher efficiency locally, with less transport involved, the compression of high-sec ores and transporting those to the same high efficiency null refineries is also added.

Why not just continue mining in high-sec with alts in safety, compressing and shipping to null-sec refineries?

Yes, but null gets that 20% bonus regardless of where the ore/ice originates from.

Though there is an increased incentive to mine in null, that same time spent mining can also be spent instead in hauling compressed high-sec ore/ice for the same 20% bonus in null refineries.

So the status quo and incentive on actually utilising null resources, is still mitigated by that same time instead being spent in hauling from high-sec, as was the case before the change.

Whereas before that activity involved hauling compressed guns for reprocessing into minerals in null, the same activity now continues instead as hauling compressed ice/ore with an additional profit due to the refining rates that exceeds that which was possible with gun compression hauling.

Subsequently it also becomes possible for null to manufacture that direct increased refining yield of compressed ice/ore from high-sec into products, which can then be compressed and re-shipped back to high-sec markets for sale at a margin that high-sec manufacturing cannot feasibly match due to high-sec not being able to compete with the ice/ore refine yield in minerals garnered by null from the compressed ice/ore they imported from high in the first place.

What actual mining activity this might incentivise in null, would be for the ore types that are not available in high, which again, due to the refining change, can be added to the base minerals garnered efficiently from refining of imported high-sec compressed ice/ore, manufactured, compressed, and re-shipped to high-sec again for a margin that cannot be met by high-sec not only due to their local reduced refinery rates, but also due to their inability to access "cheap" rarer ores in high-sec, and even if they could, they could only refine them at a lower efficiency.

Furthermore, due to the reprocessing nerf, null actually becomes even more dependant on minerals acquired through other means. Though this to a small degree incentivises mining in null for those minerals instead, as I demonstrated above, they can and will still be aquired from high-sec instead.

Am I correct in any of this?

So though it incentives null mining (of rare ores) to a small degree, the real profit and efficiency is still in importing compressed high-sec ice/ore (whereas before it was compressed guns) refining that at an increased efficiency, manufacturing it, and then re-selling product in high-sec at a margin that high-sec manufacturers cannot match due to their own native lower refinement rates.

I don't think this is necessarily "bad" for high-sec, but I think the incentive for null actually finally utilising its own domestic resources to the full is a bit overstated in many interpretations of this change. The best efficiency and profit, to my understanding, is still in importing high-sec ice/ore, which infact is now more efficient in mineral yield than gun compression ever was, not in mining domestically in null.

I don't think we will really see a substantial degree of null utilising its own ore resources as a result.

If compressing high-sec ice/ore was restricted, yes, that would certainly massively incentivise domestic mining in null, but that is not the proposed change.

Alts of null-dwellers can continue to mine in the safety of high-sec, compress and haul their ice/ore to null, get an increased efficiency yield in minerals, manufacture, and sell back to high-sec. At every stage of this process the profits accumulate above and beyond what was the case today, and it doesn't even require you to mine in null instead.